While We're on the Subject of Total Depravity...

[Godzchild]

Ok you're not getting what I'm saying - doesn't matter

 

[SoaringEagle]

Job 36:9-14 Then he declares to them their work and their transgressions, that they are behaving arrogantly. He opens their ears to intruction, and commands that they return from iniquity

Sounds like the the role of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. He convicts the "world" of sin, righteousness and judgment. The very same ones that Acts 17 talks about. All men everywhere being commanded to repent. The Holy Spirit declares to them their work (sin) and there transgressions, and how they are behaving. Then, He opens their ears to intruction. That is prior to the message of faith is ministered to the lost, there ears are opened, and they are supernaturally given at that moment the ability to repent and believe in the gospel (which they just heard) or resist. When Jesus is lifted up, He will draw all men to Himself. Thus, any decision initiated by the Holy Spirit will result in new birth.

 

[Godzchild]

Job 36:9-14 Then he declares to them their work and their transgressions, that they are behaving arrogantly. He opens their ears to intruction, and commands that they return from iniquity

Sounds like the the role of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. He convicts the "world" of sin, righteousness and judgment. The very same ones that Acts 17 talks about. All men everywhere being commanded to repent. The Holy Spirit declares to them their work (sin) and there transgressions, and how they are behaving. Then, He opens their ears to intruction. That is prior to the message of faith is ministered to the lost, there ears are opened, and they are supernaturally given at that moment the ability to repent and believe in the gospel (which they just heard) or resist. When Jesus is lifted up, He will draw all men to Himself. Thus, any decision initiated by the Holy Spirit will result in new birth.

Ok this is a lot closer to what I believe in - thank you

 

[BBAS 64]

I believe that the Father draws them all and enables them all. But not all will accept!

Good Day, Godzchildren

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

man.. him..him, these are all singular nouns or pronouns.

The father draws all, for the explict purpose of Christ raising on the last day cite the verse please.


Peace to u,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

Because deep inside a mother is the heart of God. And a mother cannot pick and choose which child whe wants over another of her children. Deep in my heart I cannot fathom why God would be any different. He is the perfect parent after all.

You say that life isn't fair...well I believe that God is just and fair! To punish all man kind for one man's sin but then not give EVERYBODY the opportunity for redemption through one man's obedience is not the Father I know!

Good Day, Godzchild

You assume wrongly that "all" are God's children. There are some that are of God, and those who are not read Jn 8.

You can not fathom, so what how is that germain to God "my ways are NOT your ways".

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

Job 36:9-14 Then he declares to them their work and their transgressions, that they are behaving arrogantly. He opens their ears to intruction, and commands that they return from iniquity

Sounds like the the role of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. He convicts the "world" of sin, righteousness and judgment. The very same ones that Acts 17 talks about. All men everywhere being commanded to repent. The Holy Spirit declares to them their work (sin) and there transgressions, and how they are behaving. Then, He opens their ears to intruction. That is prior to the message of faith is ministered to the lost, there ears are opened, and they are supernaturally given at that moment the ability to repent and believe in the gospel (which they just heard) or resist. When Jesus is lifted up, He will draw all men to Himself. Thus, any decision initiated by the Holy Spirit will result in new birth.

Good Day, Soarig eagle

Joh 12:31Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.

Joh 12:32And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Joh 12:33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.

The Son does not draw for the purpose of raising up, the Father does.

Joh 6:44No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

The passage tells us why Jesus said what he did, it is important to read the "whole passasge". It is clear he did not have in mind the things that you have attributed to the statment.

If the Holy spirit's role is to convict men of sin, and 1 man says he does not sin. Do you believe that the Holy spirit has failed in his role of convicting the "world?




Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Godzchild]

Good Day, Godzchildren

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

man.. him..him, these are all singular nouns or pronouns.

The father draws all, for the explict purpose of Christ raising on the last day cite the verse please.


Peace to u,

Bill

Oh ok so using YOUR logic only ONE MAN gets drawn - yeh ok

 

[Godzchild]

Good Day, Godzchild

You assume wrongly that "all" are God's children. There are some that are of God, and those who are not read Jn 8.

You can not fathom, so what how is that germain to God "my ways are NOT your ways".

Peace to u,

Bill

We are all God's creation. Satan stole his creation and claimed them as his own. God sent his son on the cross to win his creation back. Those who are won back (ie believe) then become sons of God through adoption. God wishes all to be saved.

 

[edie19]

Because deep inside a mother is the heart of God. And a mother cannot pick and choose which child whe wants over another of her children. Deep in my heart I cannot fathom why God would be any different. He is the perfect parent after all.

Reverse what you're saying here. Which one of us chose our parents?? Not a single one of us. Our parents chose us - either by giving birth or adoption. We had no role, no say in the matter at all.

 

[BBAS 64]

We are all God's creation..

Good Day, Godzchild

And you point would be?


.

Satan stole his creation and claimed them as his own..

It must really be depressing to serve a power less god.


.

God sent his son on the cross to win his creation back. Those who are won back (ie believe) then become sons of God through adoption. God wishes all to be saved.

God, sent his son to win back and yet there is many that he looses... kind of sad.

God adopts.. and does not adopt all

Again No SCRIPTURE.... Godzchild why



Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Godzchild]

Good Day, Godzchild

And you point would be?

I've shown you the points below.


.

It must really be depressing to serve a power less god.

Excuse me?


.

God, sent his son to win back and yet there is many that he looses... kind of sad.

He sent his son to win them back but not all will come because not all want to be won back - and yes it is sad.

God adopts.. and does not adopt all

Nope because not all want to be adopted.

Again No SCRIPTURE.... Godzchild why

Because scripture seems to get twisted by calvinists.

 

[BBAS 64]

Oh ok so using YOUR logic only ONE MAN gets drawn - yeh ok

Good day, Godzchild

It is not Logic... it is reading by using forms of grammer. Do you know what a
Universal negative is?

You have not answered the question.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Godzchild]

Good day, Godzchild

It is not Logic... it is reading by using forms of grammer. Do you know what a
Universal negative is?

You have not answered the question.

Peace to u,

Bill

No I don't and no i haven't - I didn't think it was necessary for one to be a grammatical genius to read and understand scripture.

 

[BBAS 64]

I've shown you the points below.
Excuse me?

He sent his son to win them back but not all will come because not all want to be won back - and yes it is sad.

Nope because not all want to be adopted.

Because scripture seems to get twisted by calvinists.

Good Day, Godzchild

Your last line is really funny, if that has been done prove it by Scripture.

Mat 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."


You see I belive what Scripture says... "he will save his people.


You do not:

"He sent his son to win them back but not all will come because not all want to be won back - and yes it is sad"


For you the father sent the Son to do the will of the father, then the Son failed in completing the will of the father.

It is Sad, from your point of view.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Godzchild]

Good Day, Godzchild

Your last line is really funny, if that has been done prove it by Scripture.

Ephesians 1 v 4 & 5

Mat 1:21

She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."


You see I belive what Scripture says... "he will save his people.


You do not:

"He sent his son to win them back but not all will come because not all want to be won back - and yes it is sad"

His people are Israel! You cannot become Israel until you are adopted as his Sons.

For you the father sent the Son to do the will of the father, then the Son failed in completing the will of the father.

Excuse me - he did not fail! The Calvinists have him painted as only doing half the job mate - take a good hard look in the mirror!

 

[SoaringEagle]

First, faith isn't a gift of God in order be saved. If you look closer in Eph. 2:8, you'll see that the gift of God is referring to grace, not faith. The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.... Titus 2:11. Jesus told the woman at the well if you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him and he would have given you living water. The living water is sybolic of the Holy Spirit, which deals with salvation. Jesus, and Salvation is the gift of God. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. After hearing the word, if we mix it with faith, which in a sense comes from God but is considered our faith, we apprehend God by faith, and under the initiation and influence of the Holy Spirit we repent and believe, that is excersize our faith and trust into the Living God and boom. Salvation occurs. No man can come to the God but by the Holy Spirit. I agree totally. But man is not TOTALLY passive in His salvation, and has the ability to repent and believe under the influence of the Holy Spirit to pass from death to life. Yet nothing man does is considered a work. His response to the gospel of his salvation was initiated by the Holy Spirit, and only under the influence of the Holy Spirit can He repent and believe, excercize his faith in Christ. Scripture says repentance hinges together with faith, and occurs before being made alive.

 

[Rolf Ernst]

Actually, I believe I can. God forced them into existence with the knowledge of them being under the curse of Adam's transgression.

And still, we have the command to repent: which is universal according to the Calvinists who have responded to this aspect of the question; how can God make an impossible command? That is, how can God command man, who is born out of faith and incapable of initiating faith on his own, to do something he cannot do? This has nothing to do with the lowering of a standard, but with the law of non-contradiction.

And if the command to repent was directed only towards the elect, why the implication that there will be some lost? Presumably if repentance was directed towards the elect, the elect would fulfill this command. Unless God likes to make empty or deceiving claims.

To me, the knot comes tight when I try to pull it loose.

How can God give an impossible command? The same way your teacher in school had the right to demand answers from you which you did not have, and then penalize you for your failure to answer properly. Whether you accept it or not, God has the right to hold every man accountable for all the inability which came upon man as a consequence of Adam's transgression. Your objection to that fact is equal to a demand of God that He lower His standard of righteousness to nothing higher than the lowest common denominator. That might be considered cool by people of the world today, but it is nothing more than foolishness.

 

[BBAS 64]

Ephesians 1 v 4 & 5

Good Day, Godzchild

Not really sure what your point is,

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:

Eph 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Eph 1:6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

What does the text say?

His people are Israel! You cannot become Israel until you are adopted as his Sons.

His people are Israel ok then are all the people in Israel saved? But you said earlier one can only be adopted if one chooses to be adopted, so then God tries to adopt really hard, due to the unwillingness of man God's efforts are for not.

Did God know he would fail to adopt those whom he tried to adopt before he tried?

Excuse me - he did not fail! The Calvinists have him painted as only doing half the job mate - take a good hard look in the mirror!

really great assertion here.

God does the whole:

The Father predestines
The Son procures
The Spirit applies the work of the Son according to the will of the Father.

Rember the Cavinist believes that God can really change the heart of man from a stone and write his law on that heart. You only belive that God tries really hard to do so and with out the help of man in that process God fails.


Peace to u,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

No I don't and no i haven't - I didn't think it was necessary for one to be a grammatical genius to read and understand scripture.

Good Day, Godchild

I am not suggusting that one has to be, I will find a news paper article that uses such forms of writting, that will help you to understand what they are and how they are used. Then we can go back and look at the scripture, then we will see that you may be some what inconsistant in your reading approach.

Here is a universal postive,

All fish have gills to enable them live underwater.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Received]

Like my mom always told me - life isn't fair.

So, no - I don't think it's strange or unfair.

Wait a minute; look at that again: life isn't fair, so you don't think it's strange or unfair. That makes no sense to me.