Which Law? What Rules?

[Bible Highlighter]

Except for the 9 Christ repeated. Yes, I agree.

But even some of these moral laws were changed slightly in the New Testament for they are no longer attached with death penalties (like in the Old Testament).


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[smithed64]

But even some of these moral laws were changed slightly in the New Testament for they are no longer attached with death penalties (like in the Old Testament).


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Well, yeah they are. Just not by man. If you break one of the 10 you break them all. And if you don't repent of the sin and continue to live in sin and die you will face God and be judged. Then there is the second death.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, yeah they are. Just not by man. If you break one of the 10 you break them all. And if you don't repent of the sin and continue to live in sin and die you will face God and be judged. Then there is the second death.

Yes, this is true.

But back in the Old, there were death penalties one would have to face in their life. For the Old Testament prescribes the death penalty for the following activities, among others:

• Murder[13]
• Adultery[13]
• Bestiality[14]
• Rape[15]
• Sodomy [16]
• One man picked up sticks on the Sabbath, he was taken into custody because a punishment was not known. The LORD told Moses that the man in custody must be killed. This particular crime and punishment is isolated case law.(Numbers 15:32–36) (The Saturday Sabbath Command is a ceremonial law that has not been repeated within the New Covenant).
• The man and woman when a man meets a betrothed woman in town and sleeps with her. But if it is a case of rape where out in the country she called for help and no one heard, the death penalty only applies to the man[17]
• A woman who is found not to have been a virgin on the night of her wedding[18]
• Worshiping other gods[19][20]
• Witchcraft (Exodus 22:18)
• Taking the LORD's name in vain or cursing his name[21]
• Cursing a parent[22][23][24]
• Kidnapping[25]
• Disobeying a parent[26]
• Lying in certain cases (See this link here).

Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_and_punishment_in_the_Bible

But in the New Testament, we have God's grace to repent (i.e. to confess and forsake these sins). Not as a means to have a license to sin, but as a means to overcome it (By the Lord's power and help). But yes, there is the destruction of one's soul in the Lake of Fire (Whether they are a believer or not) if they break certain moral laws and do not repent of them before they die.


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[ToBeLoved]

Yes, this is true.

But back in the Old, there were death penalties one would have to face in their life. For the Old Testament prescribes the death penalty for the following activities, among others:

• Murder[13]
• Adultery[13]
• Bestiality[14]
• Rape[15]
• Sodomy [16]
• One man picked up sticks on the Sabbath, he was taken into custody because a punishment was not known. The LORD told Moses that the man in custody must be killed. This particular crime and punishment is isolated case law.(Numbers 15:32–36) (The Saturday Sabbath Command is a ceremonial law that has not been repeated within the New Covenant).
• The man and woman when a man meets a betrothed woman in town and sleeps with her. But if it is a case of rape where out in the country she called for help and no one heard, the death penalty only applies to the man[17]
• A woman who is found not to have been a virgin on the night of her wedding[18]
• Worshiping other gods[19][20]
• Witchcraft (Exodus 22:18)
• Taking the LORD's name in vain or cursing his name[21]
• Cursing a parent[22][23][24]
• Kidnapping[25]
• Disobeying a parent[26]
• Lying in certain cases (See this link here).

Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_and_punishment_in_the_Bible

But in the New Testament, we have God's grace to repent (i.e. to confess and forsake these sins). Not as a means to have a license to sin, but as a means to overcome it (By the Lord's power and help). But yes, there is the destruction of one's soul in the Lake of Fire (Whether they are a believer or not) if they break certain moral laws and do not repent of them before they die.


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Then does Jesus take back the justification that He gave us each time we sin?

 

[ToBeLoved]

But in the New Testament, we have God's grace to repent (i.e. to confess and forsake these sins). Not as a means to have a license to sin, but as a means to overcome it (By the Lord's power and help). But yes, there is the destruction of one's soul in the Lake of Fire (Whether they are a believer or not) if they break certain moral laws and do not repent of them before they die.
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Verses that show that once saved by Jesus Christ's blood one can be lost to hell?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Then does Jesus take back the justification that He gave us each time we sin?

Well, here is a list of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith (Which is of course due to sin).

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

• Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)

• Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)

• The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

• Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)

• Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

• Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14, 15)

• Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8, 9, 10)

• Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)

• Balaam (Numbers chapters 22, 23, 24) (Numbers 31:8) (Joshua 13:22) (Jude 1:11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

• The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45, 46)

• Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)

• The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14, 15)

• Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)

• Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)

• Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5, 6)

• Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)

• Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)

• Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7, 8)

• The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19, 20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).


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[Bible Highlighter]

Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Jesus says if you do not forgive you will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15).

Jesus says if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body could be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30).

Jesus says if you do not do what I say you are like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

Jesus says by your words you shall be justified and by your words you shall be condemned (Matthew 12:36-37).

Jesus says that his angels will gather out of his kingdom all who offend (sin) and who work iniquity (intense sin) and he will cast them into the furnance of fire (Matthew 13:41-42).

Jesus says that those who do not receive his words shall be judged by them (John 12:48). In other words, the very words of Jesus I quoted to you above will judge you if you continue to reject them.

John says that if any man hates his brother, he is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (1 John 3:15). In other words, you cannot hate your brother and still be saved.

John says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8). John makes no mention of another group of liars who are an exception to the rule here.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Verses that show that once saved by Jesus Christ's blood one can be lost to hell?

1 John 1:7 says that the blood is only applied if you walk in the light as he is in the light.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).​

This would of course be a continual state of walking in the light so as to have the benefits of being cleansed of any sin.


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[ToBeLoved]

Well, here is a list of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith (Which is of course due to sin).

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (like they would a pair of car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

• Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)

• Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)

• The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

• Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)

• Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

• Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

• Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14, 15)

• Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8, 9, 10)

• Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)

• Balaam (Numbers chapters 22, 23, 24) (Numbers 31:8) (Joshua 13:22) (Jude 1:11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

• The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45, 46)

• Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)

• The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14, 15)

• Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)

• Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)

• Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5, 6)

• Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)

• Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)

• Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7, 8)

• The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back (James 5:19, 20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).


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I didn't ask that. I said show me that Christ removes the justification that He has given us when we sin. Sin cannot remove Christ's justification or unless you have verses to prove me wrong.

Also, also to sin is not to fall away from faith. I'm not sure where you got that from.

 

[ToBeLoved]

1 John 1:7 says that the blood is only applied if you walk in the light as he is in the light.

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).​

This would of course be a continual state of walking in the light so as to have the benefits of being cleansed of any sin.
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Continual walking in the light would mean no sin. We only sin when we are being carnal and not spiritual.

Note that the object of walking in the light is so that we (Christians) can have fellowship with each other because of who our Lord is.

Where does Jesus say that we have to do anything to get a free gift that we in no way deserve? Now you are putting a works based salvation on the Christian. Then it is what the Christian themself does and not what Christ has done.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

What is the context of Galatians 2:18?

"But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?" (Galatians 2:14).

So when Paul says, "For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor." He is talking about his life as a Jew or Pharisee (Which Jesus had a problem with because they rejected Jesus and His words and they held on to man made traditions or laws). Paul is saying he is dead to the law (i.e. the law of Moses) in verse 19. Paul is not saying that all law is dead to us. For Paul himself said that what he has written to us should be regarded as the LORD's Commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37).



Well, first of all, the faith being spoken about here does not mean that the saints in the Old Testament did not have faith. Hebrews 11 shows us that the Old Testament saints also had faith. The faith being spoken about here is faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins (Which also includes repentance, i.e. a cry out to God to ask Him to forgive you of your sins with the intent that you will forsake those sins and not remain in them). Galatians 3:25 says that we are no longer under a schoolmaster. This schoolmaster was in reference to the 613 Old Covenant Laws and not the 1,050 + New Testament Commands or Laws. Nobody was ever justified by keeping the Law ever! Men were justified by faith even in the Old Testament. Galatians 3:25 is merely saying we are not under the Old Law (Which is what brang us to Christ). For this is why Paul says later in his letter to the Galatians,
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2). Circumcision is a part of the Old Law and not the New Law.



Again, this proves that Paul is talking about the Old Law and not all Law or New Covenant Law. If you were to keep reading, Paul talks about the fulfillment of the promises. Here is what Paul says,

24 "These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them.
25 And now Jerusalem is just like Mount Sinai in Arabia, because she and her children live in slavery to the law.
26 But the other woman, Sarah, represents the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the free woman, and she is our mother" (Galatians 4:24-26 NLT).

In other words, there are those who wrongfully misused the Law in the Old Covenant. They ingored love, faith, and justice in favor of a distorted version of God's laws (Making salvation all about what you do alone without a Savior or His grace). But that does not mean God does not want us to obey Him, though. That is what follows God's grace and mercy. For if there is no change to a life of obedience after having God's living in their life with His love effecting them, then they are proving they really do not know GOD (See 1 John 2:3-6).



The word "letter" is in reference to the Old Law of Moses. For the context references the Law of Moses by saying "tablets of stone" (2 Corinthians 3:3), the letter killeth (2 Corinthians 3:6), ministration of death, written and engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:7), the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses (2 Corinthians 3:7).

In other words, the verse would read like this,

"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter [the Old Law], but of the spirit: for the letter killeth [whereby the Old Law could kill you if you disobeyed it], but the spirit giveth life." (2 Corinthians 3:6).

Meaning, it is not saying that we are not under any Commands now. It is simply saying we are not under the Old Testament Commands as New Covenant believers.



This would not include sin or the breaking of the Commands within the New Testament. This is in context to the Old Law. We have freedom or liberty in the Spirit in regards to the Old Law (not the New Law).



I love the New Living Translation on this one. It really clears up the confusion here that most read into it when they read the KJV.

"You say, "I am allowed to do anything"--but not everything is good for you. And even though "I am allowed to do anything," I must not become a slave to anything" (1 Corinthians 6:12 NLT).



Well, first, the fear of the LORD has not stopped since the New Covenant.

"There is no fear of God before their eyes." (Romans 3:18).

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).

"Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21).

"And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great" (Revelation 19:5).

Second, we are under a lot more commands than just the Royal Law, too. Try doing a study on the Commands in the New Testament sometime and you will see what I am talking about.

In any event, may GOD bless you.
And may you be more in the knowledge of Him and His good ways.

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Cheers for the thorough reply.

I understand and agree with the way you have shown the context of each verse I listed. But perhaps my overall point went missing. What I am saying is that the overall thrust of the new covenant is how there is no law attached on the outside for us to try and imitate. And this applies to the New Covenant also. These passages point in the direction of the Royal Law rather than in the direction of New Covenant laws.

We each agree the Mosaic covenant ended. We disagree on what is required of us today as believers. You believe moral guidance given by Jesus and the apostles are strict moral guidelines for all Christians today. So maybe it's better for me to challenge the validity of this view. I think it's called "New Covenant theology"(nct). For the record I believe in "Better covenant theology" (bct).

First question. Is it of greater value to God to follow external instructions on how to love or to choose to love by the Spirit within us?

Second question. Are you not rebuilding what was torn down (old laws)? Not exactly the same laws but the same principle at work. External.

Third question. If you follow the moral laws instructed by the disciples, then should we follow the moral laws instructed by ALL Christians? If not, what's the difference between the apostles and us today?

Just a few questions to begin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Cheers for the thorough reply.

I understand and agree with the way you have shown the context of each verse I listed. But perhaps my overall point went missing. What I am saying is that the overall thrust of the new covenant is how there is no law attached on the outside for us to try and imitate. And this applies to the New Covenant also. These passages point in the direction of the Royal Law rather than in the direction of New Covenant laws.

How can one be wrong for obeying God's Commands in the New Covenant if the Bible itself says there are dire consequences for one's soul in the afterlife for disobeying them? Again, in Matthew 5:28-30, Jesus says if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body can be cast into hell fire. In Matthew 6:15, Jesus says if you do not forgive, then the Father will not forgive you. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus says to a certain false believer to depart from them because they worked inquity. Iniquity is sin. In Matthew 12:36-37, Jesus says by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned. In Matthew 13:41-42, Jesus says He will send forth His angels so as to gather out of His Kingdom all who offend (sin) and who do iniquity (intense sin) and cast them into the furnace of fire. In 1 John 3:15, John says that if anyone hates his brother, he is like a murderer, and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within him. Meaning, anyone who hates is brother is not saved. In Revelation 21:8, John says ALL liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. John makes no mention of another group of liars who are the exception to the rule within Revelation.

Now, do not misunderstand me. Salvation is not Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism anymore than Salvation is Easy Believism or Belief Alone-ism. Salvation is Jesus Christ and abiding in Him. Salvation is Relationship-ism. For if a person abides in Christ, then good fruit and not bad fruit will be evident in one's life. It's why Paul says that we are to prove whether or not Christ is in us, unless we are reprobate (2 Corinthians 13:5). How can we have an assurance that we know Christ? 1 John 2:3-4 gives you that answer.

For God is not a respecter of persons. Certain sins can cause anyone (regardless of whether they are a believer or not) to face the second death (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

For a person is going to do some kind of works in this life (Whether they be good or bad). So by comparison here, one either believes they are saved by:

(a) Grace + Christ directed works done thru the saint (or):
(b) Grace + evil works, i.e. unrepentant serious sins (being ignored on some level).

We each agree the Mosaic covenant ended. We disagree on what is required of us today as believers. You believe moral guidance given by Jesus and the apostles are strict moral guidelines for all Christians today.

Yes, because God is good and He desires His people to be good, too.
If not, then God would have to be agree with our evil on some level so as to let us into His good kingdom despite such said evil. Granted, I am talking about serious sins that lead to the "second death" like: hate, murder, theft, sexual immorality, idolatry, lying, coveting, etc. (See Revelation 21:8); And I am not talking about sins that are not a salvation issue: Like not being baptized (1 Peter 3:21) or hidden or secret faults (Psalms 19:12). For there are sins unto death and there are sins not unto death (1 John 5:16-18).

So maybe it's better for me to challenge the validity of this view. I think it's called "New Covenant theology"(nct). For the record I believe in "Better covenant theology" (bct).

I also believe the New Covenant is better, too.
I believe the New Covenant is a better than the Old Covenant because:

(a) Jesus is the believer's heavenly high priest who intercedes on their behalf in the heavenly temple instead of the believer going to an earthly priest and an earthly temple (Hebrews 8:1-5) (Also see 1 John 2:1-2, 1 John 1:9).

(b) Jesus is our passover lamb who forever takes away our past sins when we repent (confess and forsake sin) and trust in Him. For the blood of goats and bulls never took away sin for good (Hebrews 10:4). The blood of goats and bulls only temporally atoned for sin. For a believer in the Old Testament had to revisit the same past sins every year by having an animal sacrificed on their behalf. But Jesus forever takes away our past sins if we repent and accept Him.

(c) With the superiority of the New Covenant: Israel (as a nation) will be able to as a whole (i.e. not every single Jew but the nation over-all) will have God's Word placed in their hearts (like select faithful OT saints back in the day did) shortly before Christ's return (Hebrews 8:10).

(d) In the New Covenant: Israel's neighbors (i.e. the Gentiles) now knows the LORD. For people of all kinds know the LORD from the least to the greatest (Hebrews 8:11) because the gospel has gone out to all nations (and continues to do so). In other words, it's effect was more wide-spread and so many more today know the LORD as a result of the New Covenant.

(e) We can now live perfectly before GOD by the LORD's sacrifice and by the LORD working in our hearts and lives. For we can go before the throne of grace and be forever forgiven and petition directly to Jesus to move within our lives to conquer any sin (Hebrews 10:14-22). For Jesus says be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect.

(f) The New Covenant is better because it is a fulfillment of the good promises to believers. Believers today not only have the promised Messiah who takes away all their past sin if they truly repent and trust in Him, but they also have a "lively hope in Christ's resurrection" (1 Peter 1:3) which in turn gives them more of an assurance of their future resurrection one day. For believers today know in their heart that Christ was risen from the grave on their behalf (1 Corinthians 15).​

First question. Is it of greater value to God to follow external instructions on how to love or to choose to love by the Spirit within us?

First, your question is loaded or it is based on a faulty premise. For God uses both His Spirit and His Word for us to love Him appropriately and completely. Second, the Holy Spirit inspired the words of the Commands within the New Covenant, so I do not see how the Holy Spirit woud be against you trying to obey the words or commands in the New Covenant. In fact, the LORD working in you would guide you so as to obey His Word. Three, it is true, that God writes His laws of love (the two greatest commands) upon the believer's heart within the New Covenant (Just as it was in the Old Covenant). However, this is just the starting point of a new believer's faith; And it is not the sum total of it. These laws of love written upon the New Covenant believer's heart helps them to not only love GOD more effectively but to also love his fellow man or neighbor more extensively, as well. God's eternal moral laws of love written in our hearts helps empower us to obey His Word more efficiently (instead of us doing it solo). In other words, your question does not apply to what is actually true according to God's Word. For both God's love working in us and God's Word are necessary on how to love. For if this was not the case, then why did Paul bother to write 1 Corinthians 13?

Second question. Are you not rebuilding what was torn down (old laws)? Not exactly the same laws but the same principle at work. External.

Again, your question is loaded and or false and makes an assumption that is not true. Paul is saying if he rebuilt that which he destroyed (i.e. the Law of Moses) he would be a Law breaker according to the Law of Moses. You think God was against external obedience when this was never the case. God had transformed hearts and indwelled believers and helped them to obey Him even in the Old Covenant (Ezekiel 36:26-27). The foundation of love is set from the start of a true believer's life (Who truly repents and trusts in Jesus). But this does not mean we can toss our Bible's out the window and not seek to be more transformed into Christ's image by the power of the Spirit. For we cannot seek our own way and be saved. We cannot serve Christ and ourselves. No man can openly rebel against God and also say that He is serving God. For no man can serve two masters. True repentance is where a Christian confesses and forsakes their sins (See Matthew 12:41, cf. Jonah 3:6-9); And Jesus said, repent or perish.

Third question. If you follow the moral laws instructed by the disciples, then should we follow the moral laws instructed by ALL Christians? If not, what's the difference between the apostles and us today?

Just a few questions to begin.

Because the written instructions by Christ's followers are a part of Holy Scripture and is the divinely inspired Word of God. They are in essence God's words to man.

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe" (1 Thessalonians 2:13).



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[Bible Highlighter]

Post pending.



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[YouAreAwesome]

It's not about being wrong by obeying the new covenant laws, it's the motivation of the heart. Would we do differently to the command if there were no command? Do we only follow the command because we're told to? Will I not walk in all the commands with no knowledge of them at all by walking in love? All the New Covenant commands are encouragements to walk in love. When I see a Christian not walking in love, I encourage them to love. Thus the commands in the bible are the same thing. There's WAY more to understanding and walking in love than the commands given in the New Testament. But love will rarely contradict these commands. Love moves us, not the external commands. I won't be patient because I'm commanded, but because love births patience. All these commands are great, helpful reminders, but not laws. If law/Gods commands are continually and day by day written on my heart, then I follow Him, and no law accuses me.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It's not about being wrong by obeying the new covenant laws, it's the motivation of the heart. Would we do differently to the command if there were no command? Do we only follow the command because we're told to? Will I not walk in all the commands with no knowledge of them at all by walking in love? All the New Covenant commands are encouragements to walk in love. When I see a Christian not walking in love, I encourage them to love. Thus the commands in the bible are the same thing. There's WAY more to understanding and walking in love than the commands given in the New Testament. But love will rarely contradict these commands. Love moves us, not the external commands. I won't be patient because I'm commanded, but because love births patience. All these commands are great, helpful reminders, but not laws. If law/Gods commands are continually and day by day written on my heart, then I follow Him, and no law accuses me.

The detailed Commands in the New Testament is not just filler information or to be disgarded on the basis of one thinking they can just generally love God and others their own way. There are specifics in the Bible on how to love. Love can mean many different things for many people. There can be your way of thinking what is loving and right, and then there is God's Word on what is truly loving and right. Therein lies the difference. There is your way and then there is God's way (According to His Word on how to love).


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[YouAreAwesome]

The detailed Commands in the New Testament is not just filler information or to be disgarded on the basis of one thinking they can just generally love God and others their own way. There are specifics in the Bible on how to love. Love can mean many different things for many people. There can be your way of thinking what is loving and right, and then there is God's Word on what is truly loving and right. Therein lies the difference. There is your way and then there is God's way (According to His Word on how to love).


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Yes, well put. When you explain it like this I don't really have a problem with it. For me, as long as they aren't a list of specific rules to keep, but general directions on what love looks like, then I will be happy to preach them and be encouraged to walk in them. As long as the motivation is love and not "trying to follow them to be good" or "trying to follow them to make God happy" or "trying to follow them so we don't get judged to hell" etc. These reasons constitute the idea of burdensome. And these dangers are the reasons I like to preach love and not rules.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The detailed Commands in the New Testament is not just filler information or to be disgarded on the basis of one thinking they can just generally love God and others their own way. There are specifics in the Bible on how to love. Love can mean many different things for many people. There can be your way of thinking what is loving and right, and then there is God's Word on what is truly loving and right. Therein lies the difference. There is your way and then there is God's way (According to His Word on how to love).


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Well, when Jesus gave us the two most important commandments, He said they fulfill ALL of the law and the prophets. So walking in love is not saying that the New Testament commands are fillers. They are fulfilling all of the commandments of God.

Or so Jesus Christ says. Are you disagreeing with Jesus now?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, when Jesus gave us the two most important commandments, He said they fulfill ALL of the law and the prophets. So walking in love is not saying that the New Testament commands are fillers. They are fulfilling all of the commandments of God.

Or so Jesus Christ says. Are you disagreeing with Jesus now?

Please quote me the exact Scripture verse or passage you are talking about. Then we can discuss what it says. Why? Well, your relaying what you think Jesus said is not the same as an actual quote from the Bible.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, well put. When you explain it like this I don't really have a problem with it. For me, as long as they aren't a list of specific rules to keep, but general directions on what love looks like, then I will be happy to preach them and be encouraged to walk in them. As long as the motivation is love and not "trying to follow them to be good" or "trying to follow them to make God happy" or "trying to follow them so we don't get judged to hell" etc. These reasons constitute the idea of burdensome. And these dangers are the reasons I like to preach love and not rules.

Then you are against the words of Jesus.

For when the rich young ruler said,
"...Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Jesus eventually gave his answer (after some other words),
"...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:16-17).

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).

2 Timothy 3:1-9 talks about how there are those in the last days who are lovers of pleasure more than they are lovers of God.

A person who truly loves God obeys what is commanded of them from their LORD. It's like a faithful husband. When he loves his wife, he will want to do those things that his wife says (Even the small things). A person loving their own way and ignoring what their partner desires all the time is a one sided type of love. The details in the Bible are not filler or useless information. They are there to help you to love God properly. The whole book is a love letter from God to us. Not one word in God's Word should ever be wasted upon you in your walk with Him (if you are truly interested in serving Him in Spirit and in truth).


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[BoldPastor]

In basic terms to keep this as short as possible. The new covenant laws and commands are no different than those given in the old testament.
The new covenant is signed in Christ's Blood and gives us grace to follow the All the commands, instructions, decrees, and statutes given by YHWH to Moses.
Every single one of those laws given to Moses falls under one of two categories: Love God or Love Thy Neighbor.
Jesus even stated this when He was asked which is the greatest command. He said"Love Thy God with all your heart and Love thy neighbor as yourself. On these two commands hangs all the laws of the Jews."
All these laws can be found in the first 5 books of the Bible. Especially Exodus through Numbers.
Look at every single prophet throughout the Bible. What was their same message? Return to the law of God! Even the new testament rings the same bell. Jesus was the walking example of these laws. Every answer He gave Satan when He was tempted was a law given to Moses.
What laws Jesus came to abolish were man made laws that corrupted YHWH's Perfect Laws and made them burdensome to follow.