Where was Jesus for Three Days?

[dysert]

By the way, I noticed that under your membership info, you have stated that you are a Calvinist. Were you aware that Calvin believed that Jesus descended into hell?

Don't forget, "hell" is just our English word for hades, which is simply the underworld. Technically, the word "hell" does not connote either good or bad even though we've assigned a bad connotation to it.

 

[HighCherub]

It's apparent from the plain texts that Jesus descended into Hell- obviously, not as a tenant but rather as God.
The Scriptures don't divulge anything else other than that.

 

[dqhall]

Before I was married, I went to an Episcopal Church (since childhood). We recited the Apostles' Creed which has a line.... "He descended into hell" after being crucified and buried. My wife (while still dating) accompanied me to my church, but would not recite the Creed because she didn't believe Jesus went to hell. After we were married, we attended a non-denominational church, and also since then, I understand that the Episcopal Church has changed the line to be read....."he descended to the dead". Our non-denominational church never recites the Apostles' Creed.
In Luke 23:43, Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” But according to the Apostles' Creed, Jesus does not ascend into heaven until after he arises on the third day.
By using deductive reasoning, this could mean that "paradise" is not in heaven, and that it is where the dead might be waiting perhaps for Jesus' second coming. Additionally, if relying upon the older version of the Creed, do any Churches believe that "paradise" is in hell? Where was Jesus for the three days he was dead and awaiting the time he would arise?

The Hebrews' ideas about what happens after death might be pieced together from the Talmud. They called the place Gehenna. Gehenna was derived from a word for the Hinnom Valley south of the walls of Herodian Jerusalem. The dung gate described in Nehemiah was a gate close to the Hinnom Valley. It is thought the garbage and animal dung from the city was taken through the Dung Gate to be dumped in the valley. After death the body rots and becomes like rubbish. Some families could afford to preserve the bones of their dead in limestone boxes called ossuaries. In recent decades a road construction project exposed a tomb with the elaborately decorated ossuary of Caiphas intact. Caiphas was the high priest who condemned Jesus to die. Hebrew ideas about the afterlife may have been influence by ancient Egyptian or Greek mythology. The real state of the dead is a subject of debate. Some Christian writings indicate the righteous dead will be in heaven/new world. Jesus referred to his dead friend Lazarus as not dead, but sleeping.

 

[Hawkins]

Before I was married, I went to an Episcopal Church (since childhood). We recited the Apostles' Creed which has a line.... "He descended into hell" after being crucified and buried. My wife (while still dating) accompanied me to my church, but would not recite the Creed because she didn't believe Jesus went to hell. After we were married, we attended a non-denominational church, and also since then, I understand that the Episcopal Church has changed the line to be read....."he descended to the dead". Our non-denominational church never recites the Apostles' Creed.
In Luke 23:43, Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” But according to the Apostles' Creed, Jesus does not ascend into heaven until after he arises on the third day.
By using deductive reasoning, this could mean that "paradise" is not in heaven, and that it is where the dead might be waiting perhaps for Jesus' second coming. Additionally, if relying upon the older version of the Creed, do any Churches believe that "paradise" is in hell? Where was Jesus for the three days he was dead and awaiting the time he would arise?

Hell has multiple meanings. A better term to use is Hades or sheol. It's a physical location everyone will go naturally after death. Paradise is not necessarily a physical location, "you are in paradise" only means you are with God disregarding where you are. Everyone goes to Hades after death (with some few exception), but only those who are with God are protected by being put to a sleep till resurrection. Alternatively, some ancient Jews believed that Hades/sheol has multiple parts, a paradise is reserved for the saved.

There is yet another paradise in the third heaven instead of Hades. That place is called Abraham's Bosom. It is a place for God to choose saints such as Elijah and Moses to continue to work as witnesses after death. They are thus awaken instead of being put to a sleep.

Heaven is yet another location. It is the final eternity where humans will be living with God and angels forever. This location is not yet opened to any humans. Symbolically, the Second Curtain is opened by Jesus to clean up the path for humans to go to God's dwelling place. Still no one by far has passed through the Second Curtain to reach God's dwelling place (besides Jesus of course if you count Him as a human). Heaven is the New earth and New Heaven in the book of Revelation. Humans can only enter heaven legitimately after the final judgment.

Hades/sheol is analogue to the sea. The deeper you go the darker the environment is. One of the darkest areas is called pit or Abyss where the fallen angels are chained. However they can make their escape occasionally to go to the area where human souls are located to exercise their influence to humans on earth.

In the three days in Hades, Jesus preached the gospel to humans living in Noah's age. This is a very much significant verse in terms of God's Law and covenant, it deserves its own topic of discussion though.

 

[Monk Brendan]

So then, do you believe that paradise as Jesus spoke of in Luke 23:43 is in hell [sheol], since He stated that today they would be in paradise?

In the Gospel of Luke, (Luke 16:19-31) Jesus told a story:

There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

From this we can see that there are TWO places in hell. One is called the Bosom of Abraham (the place of departed souls), and the other is just called hell or Gehenna. All of the righteous are in the Bosom of Abraham (which was a form of paradise), and all of the unrighteous are in hell. In the three days that Jesus body was laying in the tomb, He, as God, was walking through both places, preaching the Good News. Those that accepted this good news that they didn't have to abide there were led out by Jesus and eventually ended up in heaven. Those that would not accept His News stayed in hell. When Jesus rose from the dead all of those that had accepted Him came up from and rose went to heaven.

 

[Hawkins]

In the Gospel of Luke, (Luke 16:19-31) Jesus told a story:

From this we can see that there are TWO places in hell. One is called the Bosom of Abraham (the place of departed souls), and the other is just called hell or Gehenna.

Gehenna is the burning hell. It refers to the Lake of Fire. Hades in the end will be thrown to the Lake of Fire.

On the other hand, you don't need angels to carry you to Hades, you descend naturally to Hades/sheol. Thus Abraham's Bosom is not in Hades. It is in a place Paul has described as the "third heaven". "Carried by angels" means one doesn't usually come here until specially arranged.

Hades is just the Greek translation of the Hebrew term sheol.

 

[Adstar]

Before I was married, I went to an Episcopal Church (since childhood). We recited the Apostles' Creed which has a line.... "He descended into hell" after being crucified and buried. My wife (while still dating) accompanied me to my church, but would not recite the Creed because she didn't believe Jesus went to hell. After we were married, we attended a non-denominational church, and also since then, I understand that the Episcopal Church has changed the line to be read....."he descended to the dead". Our non-denominational church never recites the Apostles' Creed.
In Luke 23:43, Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” But according to the Apostles' Creed, Jesus does not ascend into heaven until after he arises on the third day.
By using deductive reasoning, this could mean that "paradise" is not in heaven, and that it is where the dead might be waiting perhaps for Jesus' second coming. Additionally, if relying upon the older version of the Creed, do any Churches believe that "paradise" is in hell? Where was Jesus for the three days he was dead and awaiting the time he would arise?

Remember a day to the LORD are as 1000 years and a 1000 years are as a day...

Jesus went down and preached to the Spirits in prison .. meaning the dead who where in hell, when He was dead for 3 days..

1 Peter 3:KJV
18 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: {19} By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; {20} Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

 

[Halbhh]

Before I was married, I went to an Episcopal Church (since childhood). We recited the Apostles' Creed which has a line.... "He descended into hell" after being crucified and buried. My wife (while still dating) accompanied me to my church, but would not recite the Creed because she didn't believe Jesus went to hell. After we were married, we attended a non-denominational church, and also since then, I understand that the Episcopal Church has changed the line to be read....."he descended to the dead". Our non-denominational church never recites the Apostles' Creed.
In Luke 23:43, Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” But according to the Apostles' Creed, Jesus does not ascend into heaven until after he arises on the third day.
By using deductive reasoning, this could mean that "paradise" is not in heaven, and that it is where the dead might be waiting perhaps for Jesus' second coming. Additionally, if relying upon the older version of the Creed, do any Churches believe that "paradise" is in hell? Where was Jesus for the three days he was dead and awaiting the time he would arise?

Have you read the account Christ gave us of Lazarus and the Rich Man?

When you do, you will notice the rich man is in a location Christ tells us is "Hades". But notice in the account that he is in torment there(!)....

Hades isn't the "lake of fire". We learn in Revelations that after the Day of Judgement, then Hades will be cast into the lake of fire, and presumably there destroyed.

But that hasn't happened yet.

So, meanwhile, before the Day of Judgement there is a place called Hades, and the rich man is suffering there for not having had any charity towards the poor starving man nearby to him in life.

Have you read 1 Peter chapter 3? If you do, you will see verses 18 through 20. Some (many?) think the "spirits in prison" are in Hades, and that Christ brought the good news of the gospel to them, giving them a chance to turn and repent.

While one wording of the creed is "descended to hell" another wording is "descended to the dead". One thinks of the rich man suffering there already, before the day of judgement, and before hades is destroyed.

 

[mark kennedy]

I don't think scripture indicates that "paradise" is heaven. Otherwise, before Christ became our Savior, righteous Jews would have been in heaven, rather than "paradise" or Abraham's Bosom.

You seem to think heaven, paradise or Abraham's bosom are different things, I don't think so.

 

[mark kennedy]

By the way, I noticed that under your membership info, you have stated that you are a Calvinist. Were you aware that Calvin believed that Jesus descended into hell?

I'm not a Calvinist because I'm a follower of John Calvin, I just happen to identify with that tradition and theology strongly enough I consider myself a Calvinist.

 

[mark kennedy]

Have you read the account Christ gave us of Lazarus and the Rich Man?

When you do, you will notice the rich man is in a location Christ tells us is "Hades". But notice in the account that he is in torment there(!)....

Hades isn't the "lake of fire". We learn in Revelations that after the Day of Judgement, then Hades will be cast into the lake of fire, and presumably there destroyed.

But that hasn't happened yet.

So, meanwhile, before the Day of Judgement there is a place called Hades, and the rich man is suffering there for not having had any charity towards the poor starving man nearby to him in life.

Have you read 1 Peter chapter 3? If you do, you will see verses 18 through 20. Some (many?) think the "spirits in prison" are in Hades, and that Christ brought the good news of the gospel to them, giving them a chance to turn and repent.

While one wording of the creed is "descended to hell" another wording is "descended to the dead". One thinks of the rich man suffering there already, before the day of judgement, and before hades is destroyed.

Well he is in torment from the flames but I don't think he is actually in the fires, just close to them.

 

[LongLiveTheChrist]

Jesus, while his body was in the tomb, his spirit was in paradise. Paradise is an angelic realm for the righteous. Recall the story of the rich man and the beggar Lazarus. Lazarus was taken by the angels into "Abraham's Bosom", another title for paradise, the angelic realm for the righteous dead. And the rich man was taken to a demonic realm, for the unrighteous.

It should be noted that there are many levels of Heaven and many levels of hell. Just like there are varying levels of light ( brightness ) and darkness. Some light is more intense, some darkness is more pitch black. So, also, there are differing levels of intensity in regards to Heaven.

Paradise is a heavenly/angelic realm, but as it seems from scripture, one does not experience God directly there. It's a divine, angelic realm; angels are there. But as previously mentioned, it seems like God is not experienced directly there.

Jesus said to Mary, after spending three days in paradise, that he had not yet ascended to his Father.
Jesus was in the divine realm of paradise, but he did not reunite with God there.

It seems like the kingdom of Heaven, or Heaven, is a higher angelic realm, higher than paradise, where souls get to experience God directly, face-to-face.

 

[mark kennedy]

The Hebrews' ideas about what happens after death might be pieced together from the Talmud. They called the place Gehenna. Gehenna was derived from a word for the Hinnom Valley south of the walls of Herodian Jerusalem. The dung gate described in Nehemiah was a gate close to the Hinnom Valley. It is thought the garbage and animal dung from the city was taken through the Dung Gate to be dumped in the valley. After death the body rots and becomes like rubbish. Some families could afford to preserve the bones of their dead in limestone boxes called ossuaries. In recent decades a road construction project exposed a tomb with the elaborately decorated ossuary of Caiphas intact. Caiphas was the high priest who condemned Jesus to die. Hebrew ideas about the afterlife may have been influence by ancient Egyptian or Greek mythology. The real state of the dead is a subject of debate. Some Christian writings indicate the righteous dead will be in heaven/new world. Jesus referred to his dead friend Lazarus as not dead, but sleeping.

In the Hebrew Bible, Gehenna was initially where some of the kings of Judah sacrificed their children by fire.

And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart. (Jer. 7:31)

Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter. (Jer. 19:6)
​

There was some idea of an afterlife, Abraham and Job knew about the resurrection:

As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. "Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God; Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. (Job 19: 25-27)

Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and in a sense, he did receive Isaac back from death. (Heb. 11:19)
​

There was a vague concept of an after life, certainly the faithful knew something about the resurrection. The only passage I know of in the OT that directly mentions a place of eternal shame and contempt is Danial:

"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. "Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever (Dan. 12:2,3)
​

Jesus was the only one in Scripture to speak directly to the resurrection and final judgment. He is just about the only person in Scripture to discuss hell, certainly the only one to discuss it at length.

The Old Testament Sheol was literally used synonymously with the grave and death. Peter saw this as a promise of the resurrection:

Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices, my body also will live in hope, because You will not abandon my soul to Hades, nor will You let Your Holy One see decay. (Acts 2:27; Psalm 16:10)

“Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. (Acts 2:29-31)
​

Peter is still speaking of 'Sheol', translated here as, 'the realm of the dead', as the grave. There were times people would say, no one speaks like this man. I think we have become too familiar, we tend to forget the level of revelation Jesus brought through his teachings.

I hope you'll pardon my sensibilities here but Jesus going into Sheol, the realm of the dead, and going into hell are two very different things. He did preach to those who were in hell but he was in paradise, heaven or whatever you might want to call it. It is impossible for hell to have him and equally impossible for the grave to hold him.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[seashale76]

Before I was married, I went to an Episcopal Church (since childhood). We recited the Apostles' Creed which has a line.... "He descended into hell" after being crucified and buried. My wife (while still dating) accompanied me to my church, but would not recite the Creed because she didn't believe Jesus went to hell. After we were married, we attended a non-denominational church, and also since then, I understand that the Episcopal Church has changed the line to be read....."he descended to the dead". Our non-denominational church never recites the Apostles' Creed.
In Luke 23:43, Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” But according to the Apostles' Creed, Jesus does not ascend into heaven until after he arises on the third day.
By using deductive reasoning, this could mean that "paradise" is not in heaven, and that it is where the dead might be waiting perhaps for Jesus' second coming. Additionally, if relying upon the older version of the Creed, do any Churches believe that "paradise" is in hell? Where was Jesus for the three days he was dead and awaiting the time he would arise?

Sheol = Hades = the grave
Hades =/= Gehenna
Gehenna = the lake of fire

The KJV translates Hell for the words Sheol, Hades, and Gehenna, while in other translations, the word Hell is only used for Gehenna.

Christ went to sheol/hades= the grave (sometimes wrongly translated as hell as in the KJV) for three days and preached to those there, raising them from the dead, and reconciling people to God (abolishing sin). Plus, it wasn't too late for Adam and Eve- even then. In the icon of the Resurrection- Christ is depicted trampling the gates of Hades and lifting Adam and Eve from their graves. Christ destroyed death. It is even mentioned in the New Testament how after the Resurrection- many of the righteous dead were resurrected and appeared to many people. Like Adam, we are dead in our sins, but through Christ (the New Adam) we are brought to life (where we were once dead in our sins).

I think that St. John Chrysostom's Paschal sermon expounds on the significance of Christ's death and resurrection for everyone.

If any man be devout and loveth God,
Let him enjoy this fair and radiant triumphal feast!
If any man be a wise servant,
Let him, rejoicing, enter into the joy of his Lord.

If any have laboured long in fasting,
Let him now receive his recompense.
If any have wrought from the first hour,
Let him today receive his just reward.
If any have come at the third hour,
Let him with thankfulness keep the feast.
If any have arrived at the sixth hour,
Let him have no misgivings;
Because he shall in nowise be deprived therefore.
If any have delayed until the ninth hour,
Let him draw near, fearing nothing.
And if any have tarried even until the eleventh hour,
Let him, also, be not alarmed at his tardiness.

For the Lord, who is jealous of his honour,
Will accept the last even as the first.
He giveth rest unto him who cometh at the eleventh hour,
Even as unto him who hath wrought from the first hour.
And He showeth mercy upon the last,
And careth for the first;
And to the one He giveth,
And upon the other He bestoweth gifts.
And He both accepteth the deeds,
And welcometh the intention,
And honoureth the acts and praises the offering.

Wherefore, enter ye all into the joy of your Lord;
Receive your reward,
Both the first, and likewise the second.
You rich and poor together, hold high festival!
You sober and you heedless, honour the day!
Rejoice today, both you who have fasted
And you who have disregarded the fast.
The table is full-laden; feast ye all sumptuously.
The calf is fatted; let no one go hungry away.
Enjoy ye all the feast of faith:
Receive ye all the riches of loving-kindness.

Let no one bewail his poverty,
For the universal Kingdom has been revealed.
Let no one weep for his iniquities,
For pardon has shown forth from the grave.
Let no one fear death,
For the Saviour's death has set us free.
He that was held prisoner of it has annihilated it.

By descending into Hell, He made Hell captive.
He embittered it when it tasted of His flesh.
And Isaiah, foretelling this, did cry:
Hell, said he, was embittered
When it encountered Thee in the lower regions.

It was embittered, for it was abolished.
It was embittered, for it was mocked.
It was embittered, for it was slain.
It was embittered, for it was overthrown.
It was embittered, for it was fettered in chains.
It took a body, and met God face to face.
It took earth, and encountered Heaven.
It took that which was seen, and fell upon the unseen.

O Death, where is thy sting?
O Hell, where is thy victory?

Christ is risen, and thou art overthrown!
Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen!
Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is risen, and life reigns!
Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in the grave.
For Christ, being risen from the dead,
Is become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep.

To Him be glory and dominion
Unto ages of ages.

Amen.

 

[mark kennedy]

Love the quote but the exposition is awkward.

Sheol = Hades = the grave
Hades =/= Gehenna
Gehenna = the lake of fire

The KJV translates Hell for the words Sheol, Hades, and Gehenna, while in other translations, the word Hell is only used for Gehenna.

Christ went to sheol/hades= the grave (sometimes wrongly translated as hell as in the KJV) for three days and preached to those there, raising them from the dead, and reconciling people to God (abolishing sin).

Sheol is the grave and death, hell is something else, it's the abode of the condemned. The death of Christ is indeed the atonement for sin and many will be raised to newness of life on that final day. Let's not mix our metaphors because death and the grave is not the same thing as hell.

Plus, it wasn't too late for Adam and Eve- even then. In the icon of the Resurrection- Christ is depicted trampling the gates of Hades and lifting Adam and Eve from their graves. Christ destroyed death. It is even mentioned in the New Testament how after the Resurrection- many of the righteous dead were resurrected and appeared to many people. Like Adam, we are dead in our sins, but through Christ (the New Adam) we are brought to life (where we were once dead in our sins).

We have no idea what the final disposition of Adam and Eve is. Speak where the Scriptures speak and remain silent where the Scriptures remain silent. This just sounds like speculation.

I think that St. John Chrysostom's Paschal sermon expounds on the significance of Christ's death and resurrection for everyone.

If any man be devout and loveth God,
Let him enjoy this fair and radiant triumphal feast!
If any man be a wise servant,
Let him, rejoicing, enter into the joy of his Lord.

If any have laboured long in fasting,
Let him now receive his recompense.
If any have wrought from the first hour,
Let him today receive his just reward.
If any have come at the third hour,
Let him with thankfulness keep the feast.
If any have arrived at the sixth hour,
Let him have no misgivings;
Because he shall in nowise be deprived therefore.
If any have delayed until the ninth hour,
Let him draw near, fearing nothing.
And if any have tarried even until the eleventh hour,
Let him, also, be not alarmed at his tardiness.

For the Lord, who is jealous of his honour,
Will accept the last even as the first.
He giveth rest unto him who cometh at the eleventh hour,
Even as unto him who hath wrought from the first hour.
And He showeth mercy upon the last,
And careth for the first;
And to the one He giveth,
And upon the other He bestoweth gifts.
And He both accepteth the deeds,
And welcometh the intention,
And honoureth the acts and praises the offering.

Wherefore, enter ye all into the joy of your Lord;
Receive your reward,
Both the first, and likewise the second.
You rich and poor together, hold high festival!
You sober and you heedless, honour the day!
Rejoice today, both you who have fasted
And you who have disregarded the fast.
The table is full-laden; feast ye all sumptuously.
The calf is fatted; let no one go hungry away.
Enjoy ye all the feast of faith:
Receive ye all the riches of loving-kindness.

Let no one bewail his poverty,
For the universal Kingdom has been revealed.
Let no one weep for his iniquities,
For pardon has shown forth from the grave.
Let no one fear death,
For the Saviour's death has set us free.
He that was held prisoner of it has annihilated it.

By descending into Hell, He made Hell captive.
He embittered it when it tasted of His flesh.
And Isaiah, foretelling this, did cry:
Hell, said he, was embittered
When it encountered Thee in the lower regions.

It was embittered, for it was abolished.
It was embittered, for it was mocked.
It was embittered, for it was slain.
It was embittered, for it was overthrown.
It was embittered, for it was fettered in chains.
It took a body, and met God face to face.
It took earth, and encountered Heaven.
It took that which was seen, and fell upon the unseen.

O Death, where is thy sting?
O Hell, where is thy victory?

Christ is risen, and thou art overthrown!
Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen!
Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is risen, and life reigns!
Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in the grave.
For Christ, being risen from the dead,
Is become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep.

To Him be glory and dominion
Unto ages of ages.

Amen.

Love the quote.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Colter]

Before I was married, I went to an Episcopal Church (since childhood). We recited the Apostles' Creed which has a line.... "He descended into hell" after being crucified and buried. My wife (while still dating) accompanied me to my church, but would not recite the Creed because she didn't believe Jesus went to hell. After we were married, we attended a non-denominational church, and also since then, I understand that the Episcopal Church has changed the line to be read....."he descended to the dead". Our non-denominational church never recites the Apostles' Creed.
In Luke 23:43, Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” But according to the Apostles' Creed, Jesus does not ascend into heaven until after he arises on the third day.
By using deductive reasoning, this could mean that "paradise" is not in heaven, and that it is where the dead might be waiting perhaps for Jesus' second coming. Additionally, if relying upon the older version of the Creed, do any Churches believe that "paradise" is in hell? Where was Jesus for the three days he was dead and awaiting the time he would arise?

His former mortal body was dead, not Jesus. He was likely tending to business in Heaven before returning.

Jesus never told anyone where we went and when he returned he kept appearing and vanishing.

 

[seashale76]

Love the quote but the exposition is awkward.

Sheol is the grave and death, hell is something else, it's the abode of the condemned. The death of Christ is indeed the atonement for sin and many will be raised to newness of life on that final day. Let's not mix our metaphors because death and the grave is not the same thing as hell.

Tell that to those that translated the KJV, then, which was my point. The word hell is often used in place of all of things I presented. Please reread what I wrote carefully. You are equating hell only with the concept of gehenna. The word itself is used in English in a variety of ways- just like the word prayer is.

We have no idea what the final disposition of Adam and Eve is. Speak where the Scriptures speak and remain silent where the Scriptures remain silent. This just sounds like speculation.

The Orthodox Church disagrees with you.

Love the quote.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[pdudgeon]

His former mortal body was dead, not Jesus. He was likely tending to business in Heaven before returning.

Jesus never told anyone where we went and when he returned he kept appearing and vanishing.

That's because the OT scriptures tell us exactly where He went and what He was doing.

If you will recall, Jesus told Mary Magdalene not to touch Him (because as the High Priest a touch would render Him as being unclean) because He had not yet ascended to His Father.
He did indeed ascend to His Father that day to offer His sacrifice in the Heavenly Temple as our High Priest for the sins of mankind.
That perfect sacrifice once offered and accepted in Heaven (where there is no time), He descended back into this world where there is time (the 3 days) and into Paradise (Abraham's Bosom) there to preach the Gospel to the righteous dead, and to call them forth as their Messiah from their prison, and break the chains of their sin.
Those of the righteous dead from the beginning of time up until and including those who died before the death of Jesus who did accept Jesus as their Messiah, followed Him out of Paradise, were seen walking on the Earth by witnesses, and then they ascended to Heaven.

He also preached to those unrighteous dead during those same 3 days, and gave them the same opportunity to hear the Gospel and accept Christ as their Messiah, who died for the sins they committed, because that day the gospel was preached to them as well.
So even though they were dead in their sins they too had the chance to repent. So that day both Paradise and Gehena were emptied of all who would accept the sacrifice that Jesus made for their sins, and believe in Him as their Messiah.

Both Paradise and Gahenna won't be completely emptied until the end times, at the Last Judgment, which will include those in both places who at that time chose not to accept Jesus as their Messiah when given that option by Jesus Himself.

This is why the creed says that Jesus descended
to break the chains of sin and lead forth the captives (having wrested the keys of Hell from Satan) from their prison.

So in short, Jesus as our Messiah has conquered Death and Sin, having defeated satan who was previously our captor, and is now in Heaven as our High Priest, offering one continuous sacrifice for our sins in the Temple there, and is in the presence of God and the angels.
Non the less satan does not concede his defeat, and will rise once more against Jesus in the final battle. But God has already written that Chapter of History, and satan will be crushed.
After that time the abode of God will be with man as written in the last Chapter of Revelations.

 

[stuart lawrence]

So then, do you believe that paradise as Jesus spoke of in Luke 23:43 is in hell [sheol], since He stated that today they would be in paradise?

Seeing this before he spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption
Acts2:31

 

[Archivist]

Where was Jesus for Three Days?

Pittsburgh?

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/500/calvin_hobbes.gif