Where Jesus went after He died

[PaladinValer]

On the contrary, that was the view of the Hebrews. Genesis 2:7 confirms.

It doesn't confirm your position at all.

The extrabiblical writings of the Jews as well as writings about them shows, proof positive, that they believed in an afterlife and that souls waited there, consciously, to await their Savior (Who has come, gone, and will come again). Furthermore, the Septuagint, which is a JEWISH translation of the Hebrew OT, translated sheol as hades. They would have not done that if they didn't share a similar belief.

Jew's didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah, and many an "early Christian" were wrong about a lot of things. How many of whoever believe whatever doesn't make it right.

See the above.

The Septuagint proves you wrong.
Jesus says otherwise.
God the Holy Spirit has inspired otherwise.

Soul death/sleep = not an acceptable or historic Christian belief. Never has. It is based on an unhistorical, made-up anti-Greco/Roman bent as well as psuedohistory of the 18th and 19th centuries.

 

[Stryder06]

See the above.

The Septuagint proves you wrong.
Jesus says otherwise.

Where, and where?

God the Holy Spirit has inspired otherwise.

So The Holy Spirit inspired some with the correct understanding and others with a lie?

Soul death/sleep = not an acceptable or historic Christian belief. Never has. It is based on an unhistorical, made-up anti-Greco/Roman bent as well as psuedohistory of the 18th and 19th centuries.

So I wonder why Jesus said that dead people were sleeping?

 

[truthHurts77]

No, Jesus went to Hell.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7626665/

He couldn' possibly have done both, of course

 

[tangled]

I'm not convinced that it was Hell.

 

[PaladinValer]

Where, and where?

Sheol=hades.

So The Holy Spirit inspired some with the correct understanding and others with a lie?

No. I'm saying those who disagree with the orthodox position and who claim the Holy Spirit to have said otherwise are lying.

So I wonder why Jesus said that dead people were sleeping?

Common Greek idiom used in Koine Greek for those who've passed away and whose souls reside in hades. Extrabiblical literature proves so.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Stryder06 This is incorrect. Body + Breath = Soul. That's what scripture says. Man didn't receive a soul, he became one.

Originally Posted by PaladinValer Not the belief of Jews nor early Christians We have ample proof of that.

Therefore, your interpretation is in error.

On the contrary, that was the view of the Hebrews. Genesis 2:7 confirms.

It would appear so, as does the event in Ezekiel 37's "valley of bones"

Rotherham) Genesis 2:7 So then Yahweh God formed man, [of the] dust of the ground, and breathed in his nostrils the breath of life--and man became a living soul.

Ezekiel 37:3 Then said He unto me "Son of adam. Can these bones live?".
And I said " my Lord Yahweh, thou knowest!
10 And I prophecy as He instructed and the spirit/breath is coming in them and they are living and are standing on their feet, an army/host, great, exceedingly-exceedingly.
[Luke 2:34/Reve 11:11]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7515660/
What is the "Valley of Bones in Ezek 37 all about?

 

[athenken]

Common Greek idiom used in Koine Greek for those who've passed away and whose souls reside in hades. Extrabiblical literature proves so.

How is it possible for literature written independantly from the bible prove something that is not in the bible?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Sheol=hades.
No. I'm saying those who disagree with the orthodox position and who claim the Holy Spirit to have said otherwise are lying.

So I wonder why Jesus said that dead people were sleeping?

Common Greek idiom used in Koine Greek for those who've passed away and whose souls reside in hades. Extrabiblical literature proves so.

Perhaps Jesus woke 'em up when He got down there

After all, Jesus holds the keys to both death and hades

John 19:30 When then the Jesus had got the vinegar, He said "It hath been finished"!
And reclining the head He gives-up the spirit.
　
Reve 1:18 and the living One! And I became dead and behold! I am living into the Ages of the Ages.
And I am having the Keys of the Hades and of the Death
[John 19:30]

http://www.christianforums.com/t6824449/
Jesus went to Hades history

I know the concept that Jesus went to Hades is found in the Bible and in church history. Does anyone know when the idea that Jesus went to hell to suffer at the hands of Satan or otherwise was first taught? Is it found in church history or is it a recent teaching? If it is a recent teaching do you know who started teaching it?

Thanks!

 

[Noxot]

I don't know why people think you do not exist when you die. because to not exist is not possible it appears, because you are known and so you exist.

sleep? what does sleep mean? and how do you suffer if you are sleeping? even when you dream you are still alive. ok then if Jesus went to sleep then how is all of creation held up since He is the one who holds it up?

O well enoch has an answer but he is just a lie to christians now.

to think that human beings are not in a sheol or a paradise after they die, is to believe that humans do not have a soul or spirit. but since I have a soul and spirit I am in sheol and I am in paradise.

 

[Jilly123]

How is it possible for literature written independantly from the bible prove something that is not in the bible?

Yeah, I'm also a little confused by that

Although I'm actually still confused by a lot of things on this thread...I'm struggling to keep up with all the trains of thought

 

[PaladinValer]

How is it possible for literature written independantly from the bible prove something that is not in the bible?

The idiom is in the Holy Bible.

It is found outside it as well.

The idiom doesn't change based on where it is written.

This is part of language comprehension.

 

[athenken]

The idiom is in the Holy Bible.

It is found outside it as well.

The idiom doesn't change based on where it is written.

This is part of language comprehension.

Thank you for not being vague and supporting your point with references. I appreciate it.

 

[PaladinValer]

Perhaps Jesus woke 'em up when He got down there

Look up what an idiom is in a dictionary.

Idioms are kinds of poetic language: they are particular ways of expressing a concept that isn't literal.

In other words, "sleeping" isn't meant to be taken literally in Greek unless the person is actually sleeping. Souls do not sleep; they are fully animate. When reading Greek, you have to understand their terms, and you do that in part by understanding their social sciences, which includes their philosophy. Greeks, like the Jews of the 1st century ce, did not believe souls could sleep, so any use of sleep when it came to the deceased is obviously poetic.

Again, language comprehension is vital to the reading and interpreting of anything, including the Holy Writ. If you do not have the proper schema, you will invariably find yourself misinterpreting, and quite often.

 

[brinny]

When JEsus died, in spirit form, He entered the temple

and the veil of the temple was rent in 2

now we can all enter the holy of holies -- His Presence, which abides in the CatholicChurch 24/7 (except Good Friday)

The Holy Mass is where all of Heaven participates with us in worship/adoration (etc)



.​

It is good that you love our Abba, sister. I would like to add something here. Jesus Christ supersedes human made dwellings. He seeks the lost. He is out amongst us, them, in their lost-ness. The thief on the cross was assured he will be with Christ in paradise. The curtain was rent-ed by God Himself, Who is the very One Who raised Jesus from the dead. God's "dwelling", His Temple, is inside us, in our hearts, where His spirit dwelleth also, inside each of us who are a child of the Most High.

Jesus Christ is now, at the right hand of God the Father, praise God, interceding for us.

Peace.

 

[sk8Joyful]

I don't know why people think you do not exist when you die. because to not exist is not possible it appears, because you are known and so you exist.

sleep? what does sleep mean? and how do you suffer if you are sleeping? even when you dream you are still alive.
ok
then if Jesus went to sleep, then how is all of creation held up since He is the one who holds it up?

Good Thinking... & questions

 

[Noxot]

Look up what an idiom is in a dictionary.

Idioms are kinds of poetic language: they are particular ways of expressing a concept that isn't literal.

In other words, "sleeping" isn't meant to be taken literally in Greek unless the person is actually sleeping. Souls do not sleep; they are fully animate. When reading Greek, you have to understand their terms, and you do that in part by understanding their social sciences, which includes their philosophy. Greeks, like the Jews of the 1st century ce, did not believe souls could sleep, so any use of sleep when it came to the deceased is obviously poetic.

Again, language comprehension is vital to the reading and interpreting of anything, including the Holy Writ. If you do not have the proper schema, you will invariably find yourself misinterpreting, and quite often.

if someone can prove that when a christian and a greek say "hades" that they believe the exact same thing about it and that it means the same thing in both of their languages, then you have just proven that the spirit of the world is the same spirit as the Holy Spirit ( God forbid ). I understand that human beings that do not know the Holy Spirit can have some light but it is not the perfect light that the Holy Spirit gives. I prefer to use the Word of God to read the Word of God. just as I am commanded. the gold from egypt must be made into something worthy before it will be of any use in the tent and temple. we must be wiser than the serpent. "Go wherever the Spirit of God leads you" is what some wise people would say. and we know that It blows where It wants to.

what I am trying to say is that the Holy Writ does not always speak the same language as something that is less than itself. the Holy Spirit gave the writers of the new testament Words of God and not words of the world. the language of angels is not the same as the language of humans. that is how humans can confuse the Word of God. and come up with strange doctrines. you can see many examples of heretics reading the Word of God from their own view and they came to different conclusions about what the words mean. now we know that heretics are of the world and so now I ask if the greeks are from the world or are they from God? the greeks from God speak the language of God and the greeks from the world speak the language of the world.

no doubt that God speaks in idioms. but i doubt He conforms often to the idioms that belong to the world, unless they were from Him in the first place. because only God is good.

 

[InSpiritandTruth]

Look up what an idiom is in a dictionary.

Idioms are kinds of poetic language: they are particular ways of expressing a concept that isn't literal.

In other words, "sleeping" isn't meant to be taken literally in Greek unless the person is actually sleeping. Souls do not sleep; they are fully animate. When reading Greek, you have to understand their terms, and you do that in part by understanding their social sciences, which includes their philosophy. Greeks, like the Jews of the 1st century ce, did not believe souls could sleep, so any use of sleep when it came to the deceased is obviously poetic.

Again, language comprehension is vital to the reading and interpreting of anything, including the Holy Writ. If you do not have the proper schema, you will invariably find yourself misinterpreting, and quite often.

Good day to you PaladinValer . I have a question. It is not meant to criticize, so please do not take it the wrong way.

If souls do not sleep and they are fully animate, do we exist before God puts a soul in us? Thanks for your time,

 

[ebia]

if someone can prove that when a christian and a greek say "hades" that they believe the exact same thing about it and that it means the same thing in both of their languages, then you have just proven that the spirit of the world is the same spirit as the Holy Spirit ( God forbid ). I understand that human beings that do not know the Holy Spirit can have some light but it is not the perfect light that the Holy Spirit gives. I prefer to use the Word of God to read the Word of God. just as I am commanded. the gold from egypt must be made into something worthy before it will be of any use in the tent and temple. we must be wiser than the serpent. "Go wherever the Spirit of God leads you" is what some wise people would say. and we know that It blows where It wants to.

what I am trying to say is that the Holy Writ does not always speak the same language as something that is less than itself. the Holy Spirit gave the writers of the new testament Words of God and not words of the world. the language of angels is not the same as the language of humans. that is how humans can confuse the Word of God. and come up with strange doctrines. you can see many examples of heretics reading the Word of God from their own view and they came to different conclusions about what the words mean. now we know that heretics are of the world and so now I ask if the greeks are from the world or are they from God? the greeks from God speak the language of God and the greeks from the world speak the language of the world.

no doubt that God speaks in idioms. but i doubt He conforms often to the idioms that belong to the world, unless they were from Him in the first place. because only God is good.

If scripture didn't use words to mean roughly what they meant in the world at the time then nobody would ever have been able to read it.

 

[PaladinValer]

if someone can prove that when a christian and a greek say "hades" that they believe the exact same thing about it and that it means the same thing in both of their languages, then you have just proven that the spirit of the world is the same spirit as the Holy Spirit ( God forbid ).

The concept of spirit was defined however by the Fathers to be something else.

Good day to you PaladinValer . I have a question. It is not meant to criticize, so please do not take it the wrong way.

If souls do not sleep and they are fully animate, do we exist before God puts a soul in us? Thanks for your time,

What is a person?

If scripture didn't use words to mean roughly what they meant in the world at the time then nobody would ever have been able to read it.

Yup.

 

[InSpiritandTruth]

What is a person?

A person, I would say, is the sum total of things that make it up. Whether you think it's 1+1+1=3 or 1+1=2. Not trying to get into semantics with you. If the soul can exist without the body, then did it or we exist before God gave it to us? If it didn't, then how or why can it exist without the body?