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Where is your evidence creationists?

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by revo74, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. Astridhere

    Astridhere Well-Known Member

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    Too bad all you have is self opinionated woffle to back your words along with 150 years of falsifications and contradictions..effectively nothing. So if you suggest your nothing has value I'd say you have validated my assertion that evolutionists have no idea what they are talking about on their best day.

    I have your 150 years of refuted nonsense to play with and guess what? You lot will never live it down...
     
  2. cupid dave

    cupid dave Guest

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    You may welcome atheists, but you will reject and lock out a theistic evolutionist who says Genesis is supported by Science, not opposed:




    Theistic Evolution uses Modern Science concepts to support the following statements in Genesis where bracketed commentary specifically compares both the facts and the text references in the scripture:
    1. There was a Big Bang beginning.
    2. There were seven long durations geological eras) thereafter.
    3. The Plant Kingdom did appear before the Animal Kingdom, on the morning of the 3rd duration, the Paleo-Proterozoic Era.
    4. All the waters were gathered together into one place called Panthalassa.
    5. All the Earth was was surrounded by the oceans which where gathered together into one place called Pangea.
    6. The twenty-two (22) hominoid species of Paleontology correspond one-to-one with those linked from Adam through the sons of Noah.
    7. The Three (3) Racial Stock Theory supports the three sons of Noah as Caucasian, Negroid, and Asian.
    8. The Paleontological population explosion called the "out-of-Africa-theory" agrees with the flood of Noah 40,000 years ago.
    9. The decimation and disappearance of Neanderthal and Homo Erectus supports the "Flood Story" eradication of all other mankind approximately 40,000 years ago.
    10. Genetic Y-chromosome testing identifies all modern men with just one "Noah Type" man who lived exactly 40,000 years ago.
     
  3. Psudopod

    Psudopod Godspeed, Spacebat

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    Go on, please show me the paper that says a mouse deer can poof into a whale. Please. Wouldn't want to think you were making things up.



    Sorry, chaos theory? Why on earth do you think evolution has anything to say about chaos theory? Every post you make shows your ignorance of what evolution actually is.



    Was Tiktaalik ever claimed to be specifically the first land walking tetrapod, or just an early land walking tetrapod. Even still, if it was claimed by scientists that was the first and earlier ones have been found, none of this changes what Tiktaalik is - a creature showing morphology of fish and reptiles, found precisely in the geographic and historical location predicted by evolution. You're focusing on a tiny issue that I'm not sure was ever stated by anyone who knew what they were talking about, because you can't focus on the real issues.

    Another example of Astridhere demonstrating her ignorance of evolution. If something changed into something completely different, that would falsify evolution. Dropsila will always be dropsila, virri will always be virri, humans will always be humans, apes, mammals, vertebrates etc.

    Evidence that any scientist has ever said this. Again, wouldn't want you to be making stuff up and woffling, would we?

    So you'll be able to give some examples of people ridculing thesists, rather than creationists. You know, backing up your arguments?
     
  4. Astridhere

    Astridhere Well-Known Member

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    Imotekh, Cabvet..you two parricularly appear to be one of those with plenty of words and nothing intelligent to say.

    Not surprisingly, there is much disagreement among paleoanthropologists with respect to reconstructing phylogenetic relationships for the australoptihecines. Furthermore,(1) the discovery of new fossil specimens that are unexpected often cause dramatic re-organizations of hominid phylogenies. In addition to this, some new fossils are so out (2)of line with current phylogenies that they cannot be positioned anywhere sensibly on phylogenetic trees and are often left aside with question marks accompanying them (for example: Orrorin tugenensis, Sahelanthropus tchadensis and Kenyanthropus platyops). Finally, paleoanthropologists are (3)people with egos (often large ones) and, not surprisingly, often place their recently discovered fossil specimens at points on the trees which are thought to be the most crucial in the grand scheme of human evolution (being ancestral to the genus Homo for example). For all of these reasons, reconstructing hominid phylogenies is extremely problematic, but still a very necessary task if one wishes to comprehend the evolution of the australopithecines.
    Australopithecine Evolution



    (4)"Researchers have to stop publishing papers that say, essentially, 'This fossil is an early hominid, so suck it up and accept it,'" Wood says. "Nature and Science could change this practice overnight if they wanted to."
    Anthropologist Tim White of the University of California, Berkeley, responds that, at least for Ardi, comparative studies published in 2009 ruled out the possibility that she was an ape. White led the team that excavated and analyzed Ardi's 4.4-million-year-old partial skeleton.
    Ardi's remains show many similarities to ensuing hominids in East Africa, White adds. He lumps all proposed early hominids into an Ardipithecus genus that evolved into the Ardipithecus genus by 4.1 million years ago. In contrast, Wood and Harrison suspect that early hominids -- whatever their identities -- branched out in many different evolutionary directions.

    Human Ancestors Have Identity Crisis : Discovery News

    I am asserting that..

    1. If one single fossil can overturn current evolutionary thinking then effectively evolutionists cannot possibly know what they are talking about in the first place let alone suggest anything they present is evidence of anymore than an overactive imagination

    2. There are many contradictions within evolutionary theory. There are many unexpected annomolies. These are butt covered by use of words like convergent evolution, genetic and morphological homoplasy, parallel evolution, indels and insertions that explain why comparisons that are not similar at all appear similar to the desperate.

    3. Evolutionists egos are only matched by their desperation to promote their philosophy.

    4. The reason why you have stuff all fossil evidence for gorilla and chimps is because they are hiding as supposed human ancestors.

    5. Evolutionary theory has no more predictive ability that Alice in Wonderland eg the human/chimp Y chromosome.

    6. If evolutionists were actually still able to use observation they would see that a living cell is irreduceably complex. There is no such thing as a 'primitive cell'. The term is a contradiction and delusion invented by naturalists that are prepared to believe any non plausible scenario.

    7. Evolutionists can be hypocrites and demand a higher level of substantiation than they are able to supply themselves. 150 years of instability is proof that your underlying assumption of common descent is erraneous.

    8. Creationists can produce their own supports for creation that is just as robust as anything evolutionists can produce.

    http://www.nwcreation.net/ageyoung.html

    Now I can back up everything I have to say. You have presented woffle and opinion and can supply no more than flavour of the month.....

    As for this....
    Astrid said...There was one attempt but that failed badly. You lot should not bring up your mistakes...it just makes it too easy......eg Tiktaalic, vestigal organs, ervs, LUCA, 200 years of evo theory, all of which and much more just opens the door to debunking evolution.
    Imotekh said...So, instead of just repeating a small bit of the evidence we present and saying "blah, blah, blah, it's wrong." why not stop flouncing around acting like it's the easiest thing in the world to refute and ACTUALLY REFUTE IT. Or are you all talk no trousers?

    Let me tell you that although I am not a scientist I expect some level of knowledge from the evolutionists I debate. It is pointles speaking to children that I have to educate in current research.

    You are no better than Cabvet whose only defence is to say lies lies lies giving me undeniable proof that he, like you has no idea of the mess your theory is in at the moment. Don't worry about the glossy covered text books, they do not have the full story and are outdated by the time they go to print.

    Now you tell me what of this you think is incorrect and I will show you just what dark place you are talking from and how much you have no idea about in relation to the psuedo science you support.....
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
  5. Astridhere

    Astridhere Well-Known Member

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    I will start with Tiktaalic just to demonstrate to other creationists the calibre of evolutionists (or whatever this one wants to call himself) we are dealing with here.

    Earliest Four-Limbed Animals Left Mud Tracks : Discovery News
    Oldest Land-Walker Tracks Found--Pushes Back Evolution


    Lobbing a grenade into the Tetrapod Evolution picture
    Just when everyone thought that a consensus had emerged, a new fossil find is reported - throwing everything into the melting pot (again!). Trackways of an unknown tetrapod have been recovered from rocks dated 10 million years earlier than Tiktaalik. The authors say that the trackways occur in rocks that: "can be securely assigned to the lower-middle Eifelian, corresponding to an age of approximately 395 million years".

    Science Literature - Lobbing a grenade into the Tetrapod Evolution picture

    Discovery pushes back date of first four-legged animal

    The tracks suggest that the animals that made them were up to 2.5 metres long and had a footpad up to 26 centimetres wide, although most prints were about 15 centimetres wide, reports a team of Polish and Swedish scientists in Nature this week1. This would mean that large, land-roaming tetrapods would have coexisted for 10 million years with the elpistostegids — including Tiktaalik roseae, which lived 375 million years ago — a group thought to mark the transition of from fish to land-roaming animals

    Discovery pushes back date of first four-legged animal : Nature News

    Many evolutionists still live in fairyland and have absolutely no idea just how much of their 'irrefuteable evidence' that has been shoved in creationists faces has been falsified requiring a brand new story.

    You, my dear, are the one talking from the backside of your trousers. :thumbsup:
     
  6. Huram Abi

    Huram Abi Guest

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    Remember when we had CRTs? A 27" tv weighed 150 pounds and took up something like 7 square feet of space in the living room.

    But, then LCDs came out and those pesky scientists and engineers improved the design of televisions, discarding the old way of doing things. Now a 32" tv weighs something like 25 pounds. It's about 4 inches deep, and can be installed on a wall with only one guy doing any lifting.

    Obviously scientists have no idea what they're doing. Everytime they figure something out, something new changes everything!

    This is proof that the science is bad and that techniques never had any accurate results because they stopped using them in favor of more precise and efficient methods after gaining MORE information. The science isn't improving. It just never worked to begin with!


    This is sarcasm, btw.
     
  7. Astridhere

    Astridhere Well-Known Member

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    Would you like to have another go at demonstrating for the forum just how ignorant you are of the science you support and what a pretender you actually are?. Back to BIO101 for you.

    Could fossils that look like a mouse deer actually be a variety of mouse deers ancestor and support a creationist paradigm of no evolution past in kind adaptation? Of course not. They must be some mythical creature about to poof into a whale...

    Could fossils that have many chimp traits be a chimp ancestor? Of course not. They must be human.

    Could fossils that have many similarities to a gorilla be a gorilla ancestor? Of course not. They must be human.

    For goodness sake when are you evolutionists going to wake up?;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
  8. Astridhere

    Astridhere Well-Known Member

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    Don't confuse science and advancement with evolutionary theory. The two are not the same.
     
  9. Fastener

    Fastener Guest

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    With any luck never because the alternative doesn't even bare thinking about.
     
  10. Huram Abi

    Huram Abi Guest

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    Then stop using the advancement of the theory as a reason to reject it.
     
  11. Huram Abi

    Huram Abi Guest

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    :thumbsup:
     
  12. Psudopod

    Psudopod Godspeed, Spacebat

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    Well done. You've not only showed that you cannot back up your claim that science says mouse deer poofed into whales, you've provided a claim that neatly points out the difference between Indohyus and Hyemoschus: "Hyemoschus [the African mouse deer] is not osteosclerotic and spends relatively little time in the water.” from Indohyus: Almost like a mouse deer? | Wired Science[bless and do not curse]| Wired.com

    Nope, just showing your lack of understanding. You're putting the cart before the horse essentially - just because evolution has a random, chaotic part (not something anyone is disputing) doesn't mean evolution has anything to say on chaos theory.

    Thank you for proving my point! Not only did you fail to back up your point with a scientific source that Tiktaalik is the first fishapod, you also ignore all I wrote about why Tiktaalik is important and why it doesn't matter if it is the first. And you are the one being insulting and patronsising.

    No, Astridhere, I am correct. Humans will always be apes, mammals, vertebrates. This is evolution. If you think evolution claims any differently, then you do not understand evolution.



    So, that's a no then, you cannot back up your comment that "scientists say bacteria will grow legs". Didn't think so.


    No you haven't and even if you had, how is that ridiculing theists. I have made no comments about your religion, I haven't even insulted you. Where as you constantly put people down with condecending language, insult them by saying they have nothing intelligent to say and call them names like pretender and delusionist.
     
  13. Psudopod

    Psudopod Godspeed, Spacebat

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    Where has one single fossile every turned over evolutionary thinking? New fossil evidence can change things like when a trait first appeared, or whether a species is directly ancestorial or a branch relation, but despite the sensationalist magazine pieces you tend to link to, the theory of evolution is not challenged in the slightest by any finding I am aware of. Let's take your beloved bipedalism. What, other than the point at which bipedalism evolved in the great apes, has been challenged by this discovery?

    Examples please. What contradictions? What anomolies?

    Let me just leave this comment here:
    "Darls my research skills leave nothing to be desired if I say so myself. If you are going to get around and pretend to be some evo guru you had better shore up your facts before you deal with me, lovey.. Even as an scientifically uneducated forum member I can show you lot up for what you are..delusionists.....
    "

    Do you think this was written by a creationist or someone who accepts evolution?

    As explained to you previously, a) there is not "stuff all" evidence; b) fossilisation is a rare process particularly where chimps and gorillas live; c) they are classed as human ancestors because they show a mix of traits present in humans and earlier apes.

    You are asking evolution to make predictions on something it has no capability on. Evolution cannot tell you whether one chromosome will or won't show more divergence that its counterpart. It does predict that the genetic relationships will follow a pattern of nested hirearchy, which is what we see. We can also use evolution to predict the locations of potential ancestors historically and geographically, like Tiktaalik.

    No cell has ever been demonstrated to be irreducibly complex. And you are aware you are looking at a modern cell, something that's been through 3.5 billion years of evolution, right?

    As above, nothing fundamental about the theory of evolution has changed that much, espcially with our understanding of genetics.

    Except, when asked, they never do. And some creationists will tell you that there cannot be any evidence for creation.
     
  14. mdancin4theLord

    mdancin4theLord Well-Known Member

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    Why on earth would any athiest who was sure about his faith......even go to church...unless they are not so sure of themselves?

    We welcome sinners at our church because we are sinners. If we werent...we wouldnt need Christ.
     
  15. Belk

    Belk Senior Member Supporter

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    Why do you keep asking questions that people in the thread already answered?
     
  16. Astridhere

    Astridhere Well-Known Member

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    Well actually delusion is an apt descriptor of what was once irrefuteable evidence for evolution tossed aside and falsified eg human knucklewalking ancestry. If every falsified evolutionary support was not heralded as factual and irrefuteable and only the stupid would deny it, I would not be so hard on you guys. However that is usually the line evos preach


    [​IMG]Indohyus skeleton

    [​IMG]Mouse deer skeleton

    If a fossil looks like a mouse deer could it possibly be a variety of mouse deer? Of course not. It must be some other creature about to morph into a whale. I apologize for being demeaning to those that are respectful to me. However most evos here are very derogatory and I am happy to return the same in kind.

    There is absolutely no need to suggest Indohyus was anything more than a variety of deer with aquatic ability like a modern day mouse deer or chevrotain. It is on the assumption of common ancestry that evolutionists need to straw grab as they do when clearly a fossil resembles a species with us here today.

    Coelecanth was another example. If Coelecanth was not found alive and well today that would be yet another purported intermediate that creationsists would be saying is just a fish and we would be right despite anything evolutionists had to say about it.

    Would you like me to show you research on the aquatic ear developing independently, or are you already aware of this research???
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2012
  17. CabVet

    CabVet Question everything

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    When you can't win an argument, just declare that you won and change the subject. Works every time.
     
  18. CabVet

    CabVet Question everything

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    The sad thing is that Psudopod (and many others) do that, all the time, and she will make the same false statements over and over again, always reiterating how right she is, either in this same thread or elsewhere. Sometimes I wonder if she even reads the responses. And when the argument is beaten to death, she just posts another wall of text in a completely different subject.
     
  19. JediMobius

    JediMobius The Guy with the Face

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    That whale's offspring will only be able to fly if the genetic information for wings and hollow bones (among other traits) are already in its DNA. Under selective pressure, genes cannot be selected which do not exist. (Even in the experiment that produced citrate-utilizing bacteria, every permutation was expressed, and no trait alien to that bacteria's biological family was produced.) Same with the humans on the shrinking island. Only if their DNA can select genotypes under that specific pressure, but then a significant portion of the population would also carry such genes, and some freak occurrence of a human or small human population becoming aquatic or avian for survival should likely have been found by now.
     
  20. JediMobius

    JediMobius The Guy with the Face

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    Some hypotheses for the origins of life even posit that the origin of life was extraterrestrial, and then evolved on earth. Why even bother to figure it out at all, right?
     
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