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Where is the record of God creating Homosexuals in the Creation Account?
- Thread starter IamRedeemed
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MOD HAT POST
This thread is treading on thin ice for all the bickering and personal insults contained within so I would recommend redirecting the discussion back to the topic at hand.
Additionally, I would also mention that dualistic gnosticism is heretical and I have a strong inclination to just ship this thread off to Unorthodox Theology for the implication that there is more than one creator God.
From the Nicene Creed:
This thread is treading on thin ice for all the bickering and personal insults contained within so I would recommend redirecting the discussion back to the topic at hand.
Additionally, I would also mention that dualistic gnosticism is heretical and I have a strong inclination to just ship this thread off to Unorthodox Theology for the implication that there is more than one creator God.
From the Nicene Creed:
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The complete record of the creation of mankind, along with
God's direction for them as well as for succeeding generations is contained in the OP.
(remember Adam and Eve had no earthly parents, so the direction for a man to leave his
mother and father and be joined to his wife is specifically for the successive generations,
which was also reiterated by the Lord in the New Testament).
As well, so also is the record of the creation of ALL living things
contained in the verses shared in the OP.
Thus "every fowl of the air, every beast of the field and every creeping
thing that creeps on the earth."
The subsequent fall of man, which had a negative affect on ALL living things on the earth,
bringing forth death and corruption did not however change or have any affect at all on
God's intents or purposes for His creation. Thus Christ's purpose for coming. To redeem all
who will be redeemed and who will take part in living eternally in the Lord's presence as
it was originally for Adam and Eve before the fall.
The rest of your post consists of strawmen and red herring.
God's direction for them as well as for succeeding generations is contained in the OP.
(remember Adam and Eve had no earthly parents, so the direction for a man to leave his
mother and father and be joined to his wife is specifically for the successive generations,
which was also reiterated by the Lord in the New Testament).
As well, so also is the record of the creation of ALL living things
contained in the verses shared in the OP.
Thus "every fowl of the air, every beast of the field and every creeping
thing that creeps on the earth."
The subsequent fall of man, which had a negative affect on ALL living things on the earth,
bringing forth death and corruption did not however change or have any affect at all on
God's intents or purposes for His creation. Thus Christ's purpose for coming. To redeem all
who will be redeemed and who will take part in living eternally in the Lord's presence as
it was originally for Adam and Eve before the fall.
The rest of your post consists of strawmen and red herring.
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I am the OP as you know.
Can you please point to the posts and/or statements where
you believe that I have posted any such dualistic gnosticism?
If you cannot, then you cannot legitimately ship my thread off to
unorthodox theology because of any other participants posts.
You may however, legitimately edit or delete such posts.
Can you please point to the posts and/or statements where
you believe that I have posted any such dualistic gnosticism?
If you cannot, then you cannot legitimately ship my thread off to
unorthodox theology because of any other participants posts.
You may however, legitimately edit or delete such posts.
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Bump!
IAR, in her response to so many others ("I put you on ignore, but I'm told that your reply didn't say anything of substance anyway.") has somehow missed my response
IAR, in her response to so many others ("I put you on ignore, but I'm told that your reply didn't say anything of substance anyway.") has somehow missed my response
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If you are arguing that God did not create homosexuals, most people would have to wonder who created or made them, then.
Gnosticism, more specifically within Christianity the systems formulated by Valentius which was somewhat monistic (it's been a while since I've read a bit on it though), generally argues that our sinful nature and the material world was the creation of an imperfect God or demiurge which created the sinful aspects of the world.
There is a lot of variation within those systems and some, I believe, would have God (the real God not the demiurge) creating the virtues and goods of the world and the demiurge being responsible for the aspects of the world that are marred by sin.
Regardless, the Nicene Creed affirms that God the Father almighty is creator of heaven and earth and ALL THINGS visible and invisible which, of course, includes gay people.
To argue against that is unorthodox and we have other forums where that discussion could take place....
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O
onemessiah
Guest
Well, that was an excellent response to the OP.
Had that come from me, it would have been deemed invalid because I am not a christian.
Had that come from me, it would have been deemed invalid because I am not a christian.
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O
onemessiah
Guest
First, allow me to rephrase my response.
It is implied that god created homosexuals, because god created all humans, according to the bible.
So, then, I believe that makes god a prankster, since you used that very reference to validate your own opinion.
Secondly, why does my religious status void my opinion? A legitimate question is a legitimate question, regardless of the source.
If you are confident that the bible can hold up to scrutiny, then you should be embracing the opportunity to showcase that in order to evangelize, as your bible directs you to.
I will save you from judgement against breaking the command to witness by continuing to challenge assertions made on behalf of god.
Just looking out for you!
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Are homosexuals human beings?
If so, the account of their creation by God is right here:
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Is that a simple enough answer?
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Did I "say that to so many others"?
Or did I "say that to one other person?"
While there are several in this forum who have made
it to that list eventually having no desire to hear
and obey the Word of God, or perhaps I've found only participate
to derail, stir a pot or otherwise post non-conducive responses etc.,
the fact is, I only made ONE post to that effect. So, you have
born a false testimony.
I will make it a point to search for your post, which may have
been lost in all of the nonsense, but I can tell you that my
expectations of anything more than non-sequitur, strawmen
red herring and ad hominem, based on experience with your
posts are not very high.
Or did I "say that to one other person?"
While there are several in this forum who have made
it to that list eventually having no desire to hear
and obey the Word of God, or perhaps I've found only participate
to derail, stir a pot or otherwise post non-conducive responses etc.,
the fact is, I only made ONE post to that effect. So, you have
born a false testimony.
I will make it a point to search for your post, which may have
been lost in all of the nonsense, but I can tell you that my
expectations of anything more than non-sequitur, strawmen
red herring and ad hominem, based on experience with your
posts are not very high.
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I have presented no such argument. I presented Scripture/exegesis
(none of which is gnostic) and presented a question, which up to this point
has remained unanswered.
You seem to have an awful lot of experience recently assigning things to me,
based on your personal assumptions, because you apparently have developed a
bad habit of "reading into" things much further than you ought.
I did not ask you for an education on gnosticism. I asked you to direct me to
my posts/statements that qualify your accusation.
And please. You allowed supporters of the doctrine of Universalism to start a
thread in the CP&E which should have been put in the Unorthodox section,
but was not. So please don't attempt to present a pious stance about this, especially
since I have NOT presented a gnostic argument and you have FAILED to show that I have.
(none of which is gnostic) and presented a question, which up to this point
has remained unanswered.
You seem to have an awful lot of experience recently assigning things to me,
based on your personal assumptions, because you apparently have developed a
bad habit of "reading into" things much further than you ought.
I did not ask you for an education on gnosticism. I asked you to direct me to
my posts/statements that qualify your accusation.
And please. You allowed supporters of the doctrine of Universalism to start a
thread in the CP&E which should have been put in the Unorthodox section,
but was not. So please don't attempt to present a pious stance about this, especially
since I have NOT presented a gnostic argument and you have FAILED to show that I have.
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Does not your question regard the creation of homosexual people?
There is only ONE orthodox answer.
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The fullness of that Scripture includes verse 3.
2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after
their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
And Jesus IS God. So, those who say that Jesus "didn't say this or that"
are not being spiritually or intellectually HONEST.
John 1:1-3 &14
In the beginning was the Word, the Word was WITH GOD and the WORD WAS GOD.
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without
him was not any thing made that was made. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt
among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.
So, Jesus was there at the time of the creation of the earth and ALL living things.
So, He should know, being that He is the ALPHA and the OMEGA, the FIRST and the
LAST, the BEGINNING and the END, what the plan for mankind was and is wouldn't you say?
Jesus ministered during His earthly ministry to JEWS, not Gentiles.
The Jews already knew the Law, they had already been given it.
Jesus abided under the Law and in fact was the ONLY ONE to KEEP ALL THE LAW.
Which is what He means when He said that He did not come to abolish but to fulfill the law.
He also ushered in a time of grace, where God's mercy can be found in Christ's shed blood
by the cross, through faith and repentence.
And so it is not an argument of silence, because the audience Jesus
was speaking to already had the law, which HE GAVE to them, because He is
the LIVING Word of God. Living Word means it was spoken out of God's mouth,
it will NEVER die. His Word is LIFE to those that find it! Jesus is the Way, the
truth and the LIFE.
And He certainly did speak the same as was said regarding the union
of men and women exactly as was spoken in Genesis at the time of creation,
again in Matthew 19:4-5, Mark 10:6-8
Matthew 19:4-5"And he answered and said unto them, Have you not read, that he
which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and
shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?"
Mark 10:6-8"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And
they two shall be one flesh: so then they are no more two, but one flesh."
And so, is it also reiterated AGAIN through Paul instructing Christian
men as to how they should love their wives, In Ephesians 5:28-31.
Ephesians 5:28-31
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies.
He that loves his wife loves himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh;
but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members
of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave
his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
So, yes Ollie, 2 Timothy 4:3-4 do apply, but not to whom or to what circumstance
you have applied them.
2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after
their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
And Jesus IS God. So, those who say that Jesus "didn't say this or that"
are not being spiritually or intellectually HONEST.
John 1:1-3 &14
In the beginning was the Word, the Word was WITH GOD and the WORD WAS GOD.
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without
him was not any thing made that was made. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt
among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.
So, Jesus was there at the time of the creation of the earth and ALL living things.
So, He should know, being that He is the ALPHA and the OMEGA, the FIRST and the
LAST, the BEGINNING and the END, what the plan for mankind was and is wouldn't you say?
Jesus ministered during His earthly ministry to JEWS, not Gentiles.
The Jews already knew the Law, they had already been given it.
Jesus abided under the Law and in fact was the ONLY ONE to KEEP ALL THE LAW.
Which is what He means when He said that He did not come to abolish but to fulfill the law.
He also ushered in a time of grace, where God's mercy can be found in Christ's shed blood
by the cross, through faith and repentence.
And so it is not an argument of silence, because the audience Jesus
was speaking to already had the law, which HE GAVE to them, because He is
the LIVING Word of God. Living Word means it was spoken out of God's mouth,
it will NEVER die. His Word is LIFE to those that find it! Jesus is the Way, the
truth and the LIFE.
And He certainly did speak the same as was said regarding the union
of men and women exactly as was spoken in Genesis at the time of creation,
again in Matthew 19:4-5, Mark 10:6-8
Matthew 19:4-5"And he answered and said unto them, Have you not read, that he
which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and
shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?"
Mark 10:6-8"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And
they two shall be one flesh: so then they are no more two, but one flesh."
And so, is it also reiterated AGAIN through Paul instructing Christian
men as to how they should love their wives, In Ephesians 5:28-31.
Ephesians 5:28-31
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies.
He that loves his wife loves himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh;
but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members
of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave
his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
So, yes Ollie, 2 Timothy 4:3-4 do apply, but not to whom or to what circumstance
you have applied them.
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It's taken a long time for me to get it. Homosexuals are not created by God.
Homosexuals are not created by anyone other than God.
Therefore, homosexuals are uncreated.
The Creed says, "We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, ... begotten, not made..."
Does the Creed say Jesus Christ is the only uncreated being? No, it does not. So to say homosexuals are uncreated would not be unorthodox. QED.
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