Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14

[Douggg]

Doug, why do you insist on the 2W prophesying only in the first half when they are authorized only a bit before the midpoint? Do you actually think the 2W travels back in time after being authorized, to prophesy from the beginning of the Trib?

I have made a multitude of posts to you why the 1260 days of the two witnesses is the first half of the 7 years. I have shown you timeline charts as to why as well.

There is no traveling back in time to anything I have wrote regarding Revelation 11. Why do you keep accusing me of something I have never said ? Everything in Revelation 11 if future of us. It is still unfulfilled.

 

[Douggg]

Doug, the 2A does not start until after the Trib, per Matt 24:29. The next verse, Matt 2430 then starts the 2A.

What is "2A" ? Type out the full words instead of "2A". No-one knows what you mean by "2A".

Stop with "Trib" talk, and speak using either "the seven years" or "the 70th week".

 

[Douggg]

@Jeffrey Bowden

Here is a critical path (as shown by the red line) timeline chart of events of the 70th week...

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I have made a multitude of posts to you why the 1260 days of the two witnesses is the first half of the 7 years. I have shown you timeline charts as to why as well.

There is no traveling back in time to anything I have wrote regarding Revelation 11. Why do you keep accusing me of something I have never said ? Everything in Revelation 11 if future of us. It is still unfulfilled.

I understand that Rev 11 is in the future. However, you need to acknowledge that Rev 11:3 occurs shortly before the midpoint. Rev 11:3 authorizes the 2W to begin their mission shortly before the midpoint. Therefore, Matt 24:14 does launch their mission.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

What is "2A" ? Type out the full words instead of "2A". No-one knows what you mean by "2A".

Stop with "Trib" talk, and speak using either "the seven years" or "the 70th week".

Pardon me, please, I thought you were already familiar with my homegrown abbreviation {"2A") being about the 2nd Advent.

I was introduced to the pre-Trib rapture, so my use of Trib is my way of referring to the Daniel's 70th week. Call it what it what you want; I will stick with how I was introduced to the pre-Trib rapture. Please indulge me. At least we know what each other means. Thank you.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

@Jeffrey Bowden

Here is a critical path (as shown by the red line) timeline chart of events of the 70th week...


View attachment 357220

You're violating 1 Th 5:1-3. Those verses are about the state of society before the Trib starts. We are moving toward that societal state of mind with the election of Donald J. Trump as POTUS.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Doug, the 2A does not start until after the Trib, per Matt 24:29. The next verse, Matt 2430 then starts the 2A.

Doug, how can Matt 24:14, which is one verse away from the midpoint (Matt 24:15), be about the prior 1,260 days, when the 2W aren't even authorized to start their mission until Rev 11:3, very shortly before the midpoint? Your timeline starts at an incorrect point. You need to read Rev 6:1-2 and see that those verses start the Trib. That is day 1 of the Trib.

 

[keras]

The 2W are about the great commission. They are about "...teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you...." That's Matt 28:20.

The 2 Witnesses have been given the authority to Prophecy...Rev 11:3
They do not evangelize. Matthew 24:14 does not relate to them.

I agree, but I am trying to show Jeffrey using his own view of Matthew 24:14, that the two witnesses 1260 days of preaching of the gospel of the kingdom is the first half of the 7 years, based on Matthew 24:15 the abomination of desolation setup in the middle of the 7 years. Matthew 24:14 is before Matthew 24:15.

Convoluted thinking, which does not prove your idea of the 2W during the first half of the final 7 years.

Your scenario of the people of the world celebrating and exchanging gifts at the end of the 7 years, when Jesus and the armies of heaven are visible in heaven above them, and the natons gathered at Armageddon to make war on them - is not reasonable.

But it is perfectly feasible and is what will happen.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The 2 Witnesses have been given the authority to Prophecy...Rev 11:3
They do not evangelize. Matthew 24:14 does not relate to them.

Convoluted thinking, which does not prove your idea of the 2W during the first half of the final 7 years.

But it is perfectly feasible and is what will happen.

"To evangelize" is to proclaim the good news of the victory of God's salvation.

Prophecy at its most basic definition is “a message from God.” So, to prophesy is to proclaim a message from God.

The 2W prophesy (proclaim a message from God) which is about the good news of the victory of God's salvation,.

Matt 24:14 (NIV): And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The 2 Witnesses have been given the authority to Prophecy...Rev 11:3
They do not evangelize. Matthew 24:14 does not relate to them.

Convoluted thinking, which does not prove your idea of the 2W during the first half of the final 7 years.

But it is perfectly feasible and is what will happen.

Rev 11:3 (ESV): And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

That authorization takes place shortly before the second half. It contains two instances of future tense: "I will grant authority" and "they will prophesy." Both are meant to occur shortly before the second half. After all, when Jesus authorizes a mission, there's no dawdling around.

Their mission is summarized in Matt 24:14 (ESV): And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

All Bible versions for that verse say it's about "the gospel of the Kingdom."

 

[Douggg]

I understand that Rev 11 is in the future. However, you need to acknowledge that Rev 11:3 occurs shortly before the midpoint. Rev 11:3 authorizes the 2W to begin their mission shortly before the midpoint. Therefore, Matt 24:14 does launch their mission.

The two witnesses are authorized before their 1260 days preaching of the kingdom begins.

The two witnesses authorized - then they begin 1260 day preaching for the first half of the seven years - then the are killed and leave this world - then the 7th angel sounds - then Satan is casts down to earth, the third woe - and the time, times, half time of the second half takes place - ending with Jesus's return.

 

[Douggg]

Pardon me, please, I thought you were already familiar with my homegrown abbreviation {"2A") being about the 2nd Advent.

I was introduced to the pre-Trib rapture, so my use of Trib is my way of referring to the Daniel's 70th week. Call it what it what you want; I will stick with how I was introduced to the pre-Trib rapture. Please indulge me. At least we know what each other means. Thank you.

That's not fair to the rest of the readers of this forum. Use common terms that everyone here understands.

the 7 years

the 70th week

Jesus's return

the two witnesses

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The two witnesses are authorized before their 1260 days preaching of the kingdom begins.

The two witnesses authorized - then they begin 1260 day preaching for the first half of the seven years - then the are killed and leave this world - then the 7th angel sounds - then Satan is casts down to earth, the third woe - and the time, times, half time of the second half takes place - ending with Jesus's return.

Doug, the authorization (Rev 11:3) tskes place just before the midpoint. Then, the 2W start in alignment with Matt 24:14. The 2W therefore start their 1,260 days shortly before the midpoint.

You keep saying they start at the beginning of the Trib. The beginning of the Trib will have already taken place about 3.5 years earlier. It is impossible to have the 2W align with Scripture and start at the beginning of the Trib.

Lastly, there is no verse about the first half that cites the timeframes, such as 1,260 days, within the first half.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

That's not fair to the rest of the readers of this forum. Use common terms that everyone here understands.

the 7 years

the 70th week

Jesus's return

the two witnesses

I will use what’s been taught for hundreds of years. Please cease on trying to be the speech police. Thank you.

 

[Douggg]

You keep saying they start at the beginning of the Trib.

No, I have never said that they start at the beginning of the "Trib". I have been saying at the beginning of the 7 years or at the beginning of the 70th week.

The beginning of the Trib will have already taken place about 3.5 years earlier. It is impossible to have the 2W align with Scripture and start at the beginning of the Trib.

It is impossible to have the two witnesses' 1260 days to be the second half of the 7 years.

You don't take into consideration the third woe lasting for a time, times, half time is after the 1260 days of the two witnesses. You are going to have the third woe lasting a time, time, half time as being after Jesus's return ?

The two witnesses authorized - then they begin 1260 day preaching for the first half of the seven years - then the are killed and leave this world - then the 7th angel sounds - then Satan is casts down to earth, the third woe - and the time, times, half time of the second half takes place - ending with Jesus's return.

 

[Douggg]

I will use what’s been taught for hundreds of years. Please cease on trying to be the speech police. Thank you.

You disrespect others reading this forum by imposing your term "the Trib" and and coding like "2A" and "2W"on them.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

You disrespect others reading this forum by imposing your term "the Trib" and and coding like "2A" and "2W"on them.

Rev 6:1-2 start the Trib. That is the first day of the Daniel's 70th week. You are the ONLY person on this thread who objects to the most common wording for the Trib (Daniel's 70th week).

The 2W are authorized about 3.5 years later, in Rev 11:3. It's all future tense in that verse. The authorization the 2W receive is about the future. They start just before the midpoint, in complete alignment with Matt 24:14.

You want to transport them back in time, 3.5 years earlier, to day 1 of the Trib (Rev 6:1-2) and insert them where no verses about that time period make any citation to them.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

You disrespect others reading this forum by imposing your term "the Trib" and and coding like "2A" and "2W"on them.

Doug, I always mean to define those abbreviations for anyone I know is first seeing them from me. If I overlooked that with you, I apologize. But, please do not be the speech police any longer. You have your terminology: I have mine. I simply asked you to define one of your terms. I never tried to get you to speak my way. Please indulge me the same courtesy. Thank you.

 

[Douggg]

Rev 6:1-2 start the Trib. That is the first day of the Daniel's 70th week. You are the ONLY person on this thread who objects to the most common wording for the Trib (Daniel's 70th week).

The 2W are authorized about 3.5 years later, in Rev 11:3. It's all future tense in that verse. The authorization the 2W receive is about the future. They start just before the midpoint, in complete alignment with Matt 24:14.

You want to transport them back in time, 3.5 years earlier, to day 1 of the Trib (Rev 6:1-2) and insert them where no verses about that time period make any citation to them.

Jeffrey, below is the correct chronological order. Please, put these events as listed into what you think is the correct chronological order. i.e. arrange the list according to what you believe.

1. The two witnesses authorized

2. they preach for 1260 days

3. they are killed and leave this world

4. the 7th angel sounds

5. Satan is cast down to earth, the third woe

6. the time, times, half time - takes place

7. Jesus's return.

 

[Douggg]

The 2 Witnesses have been given the authority to Prophecy...Rev 11:3
They do not evangelize. Matthew 24:14 does not relate to them.

Convoluted thinking, which does not prove your idea of the 2W during the first half of the final 7 years.

But it is perfectly feasible and is what will happen.

keras, below is the correct chronological order. Please, put these events as listed into what you think is the correct chronological order. i.e. arrange the list according to what you believe.

1. The two witnesses authorized

2. they preach for 1260 days

3. they are killed and leave this world

4. the 7th angel sounds

5. Satan is cast down to earth, the third woe

6. the time, times, half time - takes place

7. Jesus's return.