Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14

[Douggg]

So, you see the seven bowls as all happening in rapid succession right after the seventh trumpet blows? How much time do you see going by during the seven bowls?

A brief description of the 7 vials of God's wrath.

1. horrible sore on them who took the mark
2. every creature in the sea died
3. fresh waters turned to blood
4. men scorched from the sun
5. darkness and pain in the beast's kingdom
6. Euphrates dried up, armies assemble at Armageddon
7. Global earthquake, massive hail plague

 

[Timtofly]

was a commentary to the reader of Revelation by John that as they keep reading it would be quickly revealed what the third woe is.

That verse is not a commentary.

It is a common literary device that allows the reader to get back to a chronological order.

You are most definitely wrong that Revelation 11:1-13 are in the first 6 Trumpets.

There is a parenthetical description of what happens after the 7th Trumpet sounds that starts in chapter 10. Chapter 11 is still part of that parenthetical description of events that happen after the 7th Trumpet sounds.

Revelation 11:14 is the means of getting us back into the actual sounding of the 7th Trumpet. What is described in Revelation 10 and 11 happens after the 7th Trumpet sounds. Revelation 11:15 is the actual event that was already described in chapter 10 and the first part of 11.

The 7 Thunders happen after the 6th Trumpet and 2nd woe. The 2 witnesses are not during the 7 Thunders. The 2 witnesses are associated with the 3rd woe events.

Why does everyone with a chart never include the 7 Thunders? We know they happen. We just do not know what happens when they sound. That is because neither the church nor Israel will even be on the earth when the 7 Thunders sound.

The dead in Revelation 11:18 are those physically still on the earth, but spiritually dead, as they are still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh, and have not received the second birth. They are only Gentiles left, as they are mentioned in verse 2 that they trample the temple and outer court for 42 months after the 7th Trumpet has already sounded. We know that only Gentiles are left on the earth, because in chapter 12, Israel is removed from the earth to a safe location; the sea of glass.

That is because Satan will sit on the throne of Jesus in that Temple for 42 months, as recorded in chapter 13. For 42 months, Jesus and the 144k will have retreated to heavenly Mount Zion on white horses, as they were overcome, because God extended time for those 42 months, and then God placed only 2 individuals as a witness for 1260 days. A recent example of being overcome which does not mean physically killed, BTW, is the presidency of Trump. He was President for 4 years, and then overcome by the vote against him. He was not the President for 4 years. Then ran again and will now be the President again. Jesus came to earth at the 6th Seal and sat on the throne as King. Then God allowed Satan to sit on that throne for 42 months. Then Jesus returned to be King, again.

The 2 witnesses are the thorn in mystery Babylon's side, and when they are killed, is why they celebrate. Except the celebration is short lived, because those 3 days are when the 7 vials are poured out. The 2 witnesses were physically dead, but the wrath of God was immediate and thorough. The only humans left on the earth will be gathered at Armageddon and killed. The 2 witnesses were brought back to life and ascended to heaven as that earthquake of the 7th vial took place.

So Revelation 11:14 is stating the parenthetical about the 7th Trumpet events has been concluded and we are back into the judgments after the 7 Thunders. The 7 Thunders take place between the 6th and 7th Trumpets.

When the 7th Trumpet sounds, time is supposed to be over. Those 42 months may not happen, but if they do happen, we see the 2 witnesses at work during the AoD which is mystery Babylon leading up to the death of the 2 witnesses, the 7 vials for 3 days, and then Armageddon.

You all are looking for those 42 months to happen before the Second Coming. The Second Coming already happened in the 6th Seal, and you all missed it because you were waiting for the 7th Trumpet to sound, after the 7 Thunders, which you also all seem to ignore.

The reason you all are so far off in Revelation, is because you interpret Daniel 9:27 incorrectly. Daniel 9:27 is not 7 years. Daniel 9:27 is the 7 days the 7th Trumpet will sound. Unless the 7th Trumpet sounds for 3.5 days, then 42 months, and then 3.5 days and stops at the end of the battle of Armageddon.

The reason the week of 7 days is split in half is because some on earth will still be redeemed when they are beheaded. The confirmation of the Atonement Covenant is that God declares some will still be redeemed in the extended period of 42 months. If there is no one to be beheaded, then those 42 months will never happen. There will be no AoD for those beheaded to flee Jerusalem and the surrounding area when Satan takes over. There will be no Armageddon, if no one is left to behead, after the final harvest by Jesus and the angels. The 7th Trumpet declares all humanity is dead or will be dead in the winepress of God's wrath. Then the Day of the Lord can begin.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The seven angels having trumpets are standing before the throne of God, as John is there in heaven as well.

When the fifth angel sounds his trumpet a vision appears, presented for all in heaven to see. In Revelation 9, John describes what he sees as the vision is played out. And then the sixth angel sounds his trumpet, and another vision takes place. And John records it.

What I am pointing out is that the visions show what the first and second woes will be - not when the events will fall on a timeline.

On a timeline, the third woe event begins before the first and second woe events.

LOL. As I said, no one can take this seriously. Why did you waste your time responding to that when you know there's nothing you can do to make me take you seriously on this? It's extreme nonsense.

It could not possibly be more clear that the third woe (seventh trumpet) doesn't sound until after the first and second woes (5th and 6th trumpets) are completed first.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Clearly, the third woe does not occur until the first and second woes are past. It's just utterly ludicous to try to say that the third woe/seventh trumpet begins even before the first woe/fifth trumpet. Again, that cannot be taken seriously at all.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

A brief description of the 7 vials of God's wrath.

1. horrible sore on them who took the mark
2. every creature in the sea died
3. fresh waters turned to blood
4. men scorched from the sun
5. darkness and pain in the beast's kingdom
6. Euphrates dried up, armies assemble at Armageddon
7. Global earthquake, massive hail plague



View attachment 357167

The abomination of desolation relates to what happened in 70 AD when Jerusalem was surrounded by the Roman armies and then destroyed (see Matthew 24:15-22, Mark 13:14-20, Luke 21:20-24). So, you have your timing of things all messed up. Having the seventh trumpet followed by the fifth and sixth trumpets is laughable.

How did you come up with the idea that the seven vials of God's wrath last for one year?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I understand. Get back when you have the time.

At the midpoint of the tribulation, 7th trumpet; Satan is cast to earth for the 3rd woe.

 

[Douggg]

You are most definitely wrong that Revelation 11:1-13 are in the first 6 Trumpets.

I never said that Revelation 11:1-13 are in the first 6 trumpets.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Clearly, the third woe does not occur until the first and second woes are past.

You are not understanding that Revelation 9:12 and 11:14, both are John's commentary to the readers of Revelation.

Revelation 9: 12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly..


Revelation 9:1- 11 the first woe event

Revelation 9:13-21 the second woe event

Revelation 12:12-17 the third woe event

 

[Douggg]

At the midpoint of the tribulation, 7th trumpet; Satan is cast to earth for the 3rd woe.

Just after the midpoint of the 70th week, Satan is cast down to earth having great wrath knowing his time is short - the time, times, half time of the second half.

The two witnesses 1260 days, first half. Satan then cast down to earth, the time, times, half time of the second half.

 

[Douggg]

The abomination of desolation relates to what happened in 70 AD when Jerusalem was surrounded by the Roman armies and then destroyed (see Matthew 24:15-22, Mark 13:14-20, Luke 21:20-24). So, you have your timing of things all messed up. Having the seventh trumpet followed by the fifth and sixth trumpets is laughable.

Show your timeline chart that has the three woes on it.

How did you come up with the idea that the seven vials of God's wrath last for one year?

One of the posters here cited a passage in the old testament about God's wrath lasting one year.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Just after the midpoint of the 70th week, Satan is cast down to earth having great wrath knowing his time is short - the time, times, half time of the second half.

The two witnesses 1260 days, first half. Satan then cast down to earth, the time, times, half time of the second half.



View attachment 357172

We don't agree on when Satan is cast down to Earth.

Prove that the 2W fulfill their 1,260 days in the first half when they are authorized (Rev 11:3) just before the midpoint.

 

[keras]

The idea that the Two Witnesses will preach and Prophecy during the first half of the final 7 years, is quite wrong and is proved to be error by; Revelation 11:2b....it is given over to the gentiles, for 42 months they will trample the Holy City underfoot.

This has to happen after the Abomination of Desolation, as Daniel 9:27 says.
Obviously, the voice from heaven, Rev 11:12, is Jesus who calls them and also all the martyrs killed during those 3 1/2 years. Restored back to life.
Also; there is just one huge earthquake - Rev 11:13 and Revelation 16:18, which happens at the Return of Jesus.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The idea that the Two Witnesses will preach and Prophecy during the first half of the final 7 years, is quite wrong and is proved to be error by; Revelation 11:2b....it is given over to the gentiles, for 42 months they will trample the Holy City underfoot.

This has to happen after the Abomination of Desolation, as Daniel 9:27 says.
Obviously, the voice from heaven, Rev 11:12, is Jesus who calls them and also all the martyrs killed during those 3 1/2 years. Restored back to life.
Also; there is just one huge earthquake - Rev 11:13 and Revelation 16:18, which happens at the Return of Jesus.

Keras, the only verse that aligns with the start of the 2W is Matt 24:14. That is just before the midpoint for a very important reason. The 1,260 days required of the 2W must end before the 2A. The only way to achieve that is to start the 2W just before the midpoint, as in Matt 24:14.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You are not understanding that Revelation 9:12 and 11:14, both are John's commentary to the readers of Revelation.

Revelation 9: 12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly..


Revelation 9:1- 11 the first woe event

Revelation 9:13-21 the second woe event

Revelation 12:12-17 the third woe event

You are not understanding basic math and counting. Three comes after one and two. Seven comes after five and six. The seventh trumpet is referenced in Revelation 10:7 and 11:15-19, so you have the wrong verses that refer to the third woe/seventh trumpet. This is something very simple and you still miss it. You do understand that the third woe is the seventh trumpet, right? How can you not even reference Revelation 11:15-19 when you reference the third woe? Unbelievable.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Show your timeline chart that has the three woes on it.

Doug, you are purposely trying to provoke me which is evil. You know very well that I don't have any timeline charts and you know very well that I don't care about timeline charts. They are completely unnecessary. All you need to know is that the three woes correlate with the last 3 trumpets which means the first woe is the fifth trumpet, the second woe is the sixth trumpet and the third woe is the seventh trumpet and they happen in chronological order. Very simple to understand with no need for useless charts.

One of the posters here cited a passage in the old testament about God's wrath lasting one year.

I don't know who you're talking about and I don't care. I'm talking to you. Where do you get that from in scripture?

 

[keras]

Keras, the only verse that aligns with the start of the 2W is Matt 24:14. That is just before the midpoint for a very important reason. The 1,260 days required of the 2W must end before the 2A. The only way to achieve that is to start the 2W just before the midpoint, as in Matt 24:14.

The 1260 days will be the exact period from the AoD in the Temple, 2 Thess 2:4; to the glorious Return, when Jesus will call those 2W up to meet Him in the clouds, along with all the GT martyrs and all the Christians who remain alive after the GT. 1 Thess 4:16-17
They will all be with Jesus in Jerusalem, at the start of the Millennium.

 

[Douggg]

Doug, you are purposely trying to provoke me which is evil. You know very well that I don't have any timeline charts and you know very well that I don't care about timeline charts. They are completely unnecessary. All you need to know is that the three woes correlate with the last 3 trumpets which means the first woe is the fifth trumpet, the second woe is the sixth trumpet and the third woe is the seventh trumpet and they happen in chronological order. Very simple to understand with no need for useless charts.

You are making excuses for your lack of effort.

The third woe event lasting a time, time, half - does that end the day that Jesus returns on the last day of the 7 years ?

If so, in your view that would put the second woe killing of a 1/3 of mankind in the first half of the 7 years. And the first woe 5 months of the tormenting locust be before the killing of a 1/3 of mankind time frame.

And since it is the fifth trumpet sounding that leads to 5 months of the tormenting locust - the first four trumpets, in your view would take place before then.

So you have 6 of the 7 trumpet events in the first half of the 7 years. Not rational.

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And your notion that the Daniel 12:11-12 time of the end abomination of desolation was back in 70 ad is not biblical because 70 ad was not time of the end.

 

[Douggg]

The 1260 days will be the exact period from the AoD in the Temple, 2 Thess 2:4; to the glorious Return, when Jesus will call those 2W up to meet Him in the clouds,

keras, it is 1263 1/2 days until the two witnesses ascend to heaven in a cloud. Then an earthquake in Jerusalem that damages a tenth of the city. Then the 7th trumpet sounds and the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth begins, which lasts a time, time, half time..

So it is not possible fore the 1260 days of the two witnesses to be the second half of the 7 years.

Also, the people of the earth rejoice over the deaths of the two witnesses, make merry, and send gifts one to another. That is not something that is going to happen at the end of the 7 years.

 

[Douggg]

. The seventh trumpet is referenced in Revelation 10:7 and 11:15-19, so you have the wrong verses that refer to the third woe/seventh trumpet.

Revelation 11:15-19 is the reaction in heaven when the seventh angel sound his trumpet. The reaction is that them in heaven are rejoicing.

The actual third woe to the inhabiters of the earth event is Revelation 12:12

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[Douggg]

We don't agree on when Satan is cast down to Earth.

Satan being cast down to earth is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth. The 7th angel sounding announces the third woe. The 7 angel sounding is in Revelation 11:15, right after the earthquake in Revelation 11:13, right after two witnesses ascending up to heaven in a cloud in Revelation 11:12.

Prove that the 2W fulfill their 1,260 days in the first half when they are authorized (Rev 11:3) just before the midpoint.

The sequence of events associated with the 7th angel sounding, followed by the third woe proves it.

1260 days first half. Then after an additional 3 1/2 days the two witness leave, an earthquake the same hour. Then the 7th angel sounds to announce the third woe.

The third woe revealed in Revelation 12:12 as Satan cast down to earth having great wrath because he will have but a short time left... the time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14, second half.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The 1260 days will be the exact period from the AoD in the Temple, 2 Thess 2:4; to the glorious Return, when Jesus will call those 2W up to meet Him in the clouds, along with all the GT martyrs and all the Christians who remain alive after the GT. 1 Thess 4:16-17
They will all be with Jesus in Jerusalem, at the start of the Millennium.

Keras, you can't point to one Christian who enters the Trib. You can't point to one Christian in Rev 6:4; Rev 6:15-17; and Rev 9:4. Christians aren't there and the wording of those verses prove it.

You might want to believe what Jesus said in Rev 3:10: "I will keep you from the hour of trial ..." We will not enter the Trib because it is an environment exclusively for conversion or condemnation. We are already converted, and Romans 8:1 (ESV) says: There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.