Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14

[Jeffrey Bowden]

What does Dr Andy Woods say is the third woe ?

Please do your own research on that.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

It means it will be time for the following to occur at that point:

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If that doesn't describe the time of the dead being judged then I don't know what does.

Thank you, I agree. Keras won't answer because he says everyone is judged (living and dead) at the GWTJ. I was simply supplying for him more proof that the GWTJ only judges those who died in sin.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I listened to an audio by Dr Andy Woods on Revelation, and concerning the 6th trumpet of the army of 200,000,000 that kills a third of mankind, Dr Andy Woods says - as it is marching its way to Armageddon.

Armageddon is at the very end of the 7 years.

On his chart, Dr Andy Woods shows the seven trumpets (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) as being the first half. So, he conflicts his chart, by saying the 6th trumpet takes place on the way to Armageddon, a near-the-end of the 7 years event in the second half.

Also Dr Andy Woods makes a huge, huge mistake in thinking just because the group of 7 trumpets are chronologically in order, and that the group of 7 vials are chronologically in order - that he claims the group of seals precedes both. Which obviously is not possible when considering the sixth seal (corresponding to Matthew 24:29) is near the very end of the 7 years.





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What the 6th trumpet does is release an army of 200 million angels. Their mission is to kill one-third of mankind. There's no information on how long that takes.

 

[keras]

It means it will be time for the following to occur at that point:

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If that doesn't describe the time of the dead being judged then I don't know what does.

But that means the six times a thousand years in mentioned in Revelation 20 and alluded to in Hosea, plus; has to be ignored. {or stupidity called - 'highly symbolic'.]
The Prophecy of the Judgment in Revelation 11:18, has to be viewed as not occurring when Jesus Returns, or a Biblical anomaly is made.

Only when God destroys the worlds armies attacking Jesus, Revelation 20:7-10, is; those who destroy the earth - be themselves destroyed.

 

[Douggg]

Please do your own research on that.

I did, ,and I couldn't find anything on what Dr Andy Woods says is the third woe. You wrote in post #274 that he was a preeminent Bible scholar. I don't think so at all.

So, if you don't know what Dr. Andy Woods says is the third woe, what do you think is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is ?

 

[keras]

Thank you, I agree. Keras won't answer because he says everyone is judged (living and dead) at the GWTJ. I was simply supplying for him more proof that the GWTJ only judges those who died in sin.

Both Revelation 11:12 and Revelation 20:12, say that ALL the dead will be Judged at the GWT Judgment.

If that Judgment was only for the ungodly, you have to show where and when the godly peoples were Judged and where they are when God does sit on His Great White Throne.

 

[Douggg]

What the 6th trumpet does is release an army of 200 million angels. Their mission is to kill one-third of mankind. There's no information on how long that takes.

There are 4 angels that are loosed from being bound in the Euphrates. They will be involved in killing a third part of men The army numbering 200,000,000 will be that of the kings of the East. Noted on my graphic below.

The 6th trumpet is near the end of the 7 years - not in the first half as Dr. Andy Woods shows on his timeline that you posted.

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I did, ,and I couldn't find anything on what Dr Andy Woods says is the third woe. You wrote in post #274 that he was a preeminent Bible scholar. I don't think so at all.

So, if you don't know what Dr. Andy Woods says is the third woe, what do you think is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is ?

The 7th trumpet triggers the seven bowls: Rev 15:15-19. So, how long does the 7th trumpet last? Not long, as it only triggers the seven bowls.

The seven bowls are introduced in Rev 16:1-21.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Thank you, I agree. Keras won't answer because he says everyone is judged (living and dead) at the GWTJ. I was simply supplying for him more proof that the GWTJ only judges those who died in sin.

I believe everyone will be judged at the GWTJ as well. Scripture says that all will have to bow before the throne and give an account of themselves (Romans 14:10-12). You just agreed with me that Revelation 20:11-15 will occur at the time of the seventh trumpet. Don't you believe that Jesus returns at the seventh trumpet? If you read Matthew 25:31-46 then you can see that all people will be judged when He comes and not just unbelievers who died in sin.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

But that means the six times a thousand years in mentioned in Revelation 20 and alluded to in Hosea, plus; has to be ignored. {or stupidity called - 'highly symbolic'.]

How many times do I have to tell you that the number of times it is mentioned does not determine whether it's a literal thousand years or not (talk about stupidity). The beast is mentioned over 30 times in the book of Revelation. Does that make it a literal beast with seven literal heads and ten literal horns? Of course not. So, your comment is complete nonsense and proves nothing.

The Prophecy of the Judgment in Revelation 11:18, has to be viewed as not occurring when Jesus Returns, or a Biblical anomaly is made.

Only when God destroys the worlds armies attacking Jesus, Revelation 20:7-10, is; those who destroy the earth - be themselves destroyed.

Revelation 11:18 refers to those who destroy the earth being destroyed at the time when the seventh trumpet sounds, not a thousand plus years later. You are not accepting what is taught in Revelation 11:18.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Both Revelation 11:12 and Revelation 20:12, say that ALL the dead will be Judged at the GWT Judgment.

If that Judgment was only for the ungodly, you have to show where and when the godly peoples were Judged and where they are when God does sit on His Great White Throne.

Who are the dead? Answer: those who died in sin.

Rev 20:11-15 (NIV): Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

How many references to "dead" will it take to prove the GWTJ only tries those who died in sin?

All of the future judgments judge everyone but those who died in sin. The GWTJ is the last of the judgments because there are millions of folks who die in sin just before the end of the MK: Rev 20:9 (NIV): They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

1 Th 4:16 raises the dead IN CHRIST. They are the complete opposite of those who died in sin. Those who died IN CHRIST are pre-Trib raptured to Heaven. 1 Th 4:17 and Rev 4:1 prove it.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I believe everyone will be judged at the GWTJ as well. Scripture says that all will have to bow before the throne and give an account of themselves (Romans 14:10-12). You just agreed with me that Revelation 20:11-15 will occur at the time of the seventh trumpet. Don't you believe that Jesus returns at the seventh trumpet? If you read Matthew 25:31-46 then you can see that all people will be judged when He comes and not just unbelievers who died in sin.

Please read my reply to Keras.

Thank you.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I believe everyone will be judged at the GWTJ as well. Scripture says that all will have to bow before the throne and give an account of themselves (Romans 14:10-12). You just agreed with me that Revelation 20:11-15 will occur at the time of the seventh trumpet. Don't you believe that Jesus returns at the seventh trumpet? If you read Matthew 25:31-46 then you can see that all people will be judged when He comes and not just unbelievers who died in sin.

Matt 24:29 proves that the Trib ends just before the 2A (2nd Advent).

Matt 24:29-30 (NIV):
“Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Matt 24:29 proves that the Trib ends just before the 2A (2nd Advent).

Matt 24:29-30 (NIV):
“Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

I didn't say otherwise, so why did you say this to me?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Please read my reply to Keras.

Thank you.

There is only one judgment. That's why Jesus only ever referred to judgment day (or the day of judgment) and never to judgment days (plural). The judgment of all people at the same time can be seen in passages like Matthew 13:36-43, Matthew 13:47-50 and Matthew 25:31-46.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I didn't say otherwise, so why did you say this to me?

This is what you said to prompt my answer: Don't you believe that Jesus returns at the seventh trumpet?

The 7th trumpet triggers the seven bowls. The bowls are done before the 2A, per Matt 24:29.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

There is only one judgment. That's why Jesus only ever referred to judgment day (or the day of judgment) and never to judgment days (plural). The judgment of all people at the same time can be seen in passages like Matthew 13:36-43, Matthew 13:47-50 and Matthew 25:31-46.

Rev 4:1 raptures the Church straight to Heaven, before the "hour of trial," which is the 7-year Trib. Jesus said in Rev 3:10, "I will keep you from the hour of trial ..."

We believers never enter the Trib. Rev 4:1 is the pre-Trib rapture of the Church.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Both Revelation 11:12 and Revelation 20:12, say that ALL the dead will be Judged at the GWT Judgment.

If that Judgment was only for the ungodly, you have to show where and when the godly peoples were Judged and where they are when God does sit on His Great White Throne.

These are the judgments in the future. Every person is judged ONCE and no judgments are combined.

The Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10) happens on the day of the pre-Trib rapture per 2 Tim 4:8 ("on that day").

The AC and the false prophet are judged in Rev 19:20.

After Armageddon, the judgments of the sheep and goats: Matt 25:31-46.

After the MK: Satan is judged in Rev 20:10.

Then the GWTJ (Rev 20:11-15); all of the judgments above handle every type of person except those who died in sin. Therefore, that is exclusively the only group that shows up for the GWTJ. At the Judgment Seat of Christ, the raptured Church will appear (all living believers, including the resurrected dead in Christ). At the judgments of the sheep and goats, living believers ("the elect") and living unbelievers (survivors of the Trib) are judged. That leaves just one group not yet judged: those who died in sin (dead unbelievers).

 

[Douggg]

The 7th trumpet triggers the seven bowls: Rev 15:15-19. So, how long does the 7th trumpet last? Not long, as it only triggers the seven bowls.

The seven bowls are introduced in Rev 16:1-21.

The question I have been asking you for four or five posts is "what is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth" ?

Revelation 8:3 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Not what triggers the seven bowls.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The question I have been asking you for four or five posts is "what is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth" ?

Revelation 8:3 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Not what triggers the seven bowls.

We first need to settle the matter of the interlude from Rev 10. It's a chapter that is wholly inapplicable to Rev 9 and much of Rev 11. That interlude ends at Rev 11:13. Therefore, the question is: when you reconnect Rev 9, after the interlude, to Rev 11:14, when does the 7th trumpet happen on the timeline?