Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14

[Douggg]

We first need to settle the matter of the interlude from Rev 10. It's a chapter that is wholly inapplicable to Rev 9 and much of Rev 11. That interlude ends at Rev 11:13. Therefore, the question is: when you reconnect Rev 9, after the interlude, to Rev 11:14, when does the 7th trumpet happen on the timeline?

There is no "interlude" nor "reconnect" because the 7th trumpet third woe event does not chronologically follow the second woe event.

The verse in Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly..... is John saying that the second woe has been revealed, and the next woe will quickly be revealed. The verse 14 is John's commentary to the reader of Revelation.

Read verse 11:13 then verse 15 below without John's commentary to the reader verse 14.

And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

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The 7th trumpet on the timeline sounds right after the great earthquake in Jerusalem in verse 13. The earthquake takes place the same hour as the two witnesses leave this world, ascending up to heaven in a cloud.

What is the third woe event to inhabiters of the earth ? The reader of Revelation is quickly made aware of what the third woe event is as the reader continues in Revelation 12.

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Now that you know that Revelation 11:14 is John's commentary to the reader of Revelation - you should be able to get the correct
answer.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

There is no "interlude" nor "reconnect" because the 7th trumpet third woe event does not chronologically follow the second woe event.

The verse in Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly..... is John saying that the second woe has been revealed, and the next woe will quickly be revealed. The verse 14 is John's commentary to the reader of Revelation.

Read verse 11:13 then verse 15 below without John's commentary to the reader verse 14.

And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

---------------------------------------------------

The 7th trumpet on the timeline sounds right after the great earthquake in Jerusalem in verse 13. The earthquake takes place the same hour as the two witnesses leave this world, ascending up to heaven in a cloud.

What is the third woe event to inhabiters of the earth ? The reader of Revelation is quickly made aware of what the third woe event is as the reader continues in Revelation 12.

--------------------------------------------------

Now that you know that Revelation 11:14 is John's commentary to the reader of Revelation - you should be able to get the correct
answer.

There is no "interlude" nor "reconnect" because the 7th trumpet third woe event does not chronologically follow the second woe event.

The verse in Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly..... is John saying that the second woe has been revealed, and the next woe will quickly be revealed. The verse 14 is John's commentary to the reader of Revelation.

Read verse 11:13 then verse 15 below without John's commentary to the reader verse 14.

And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

---------------------------------------------------

The 7th trumpet on the timeline sounds right after the great earthquake in Jerusalem in verse 13. The earthquake takes place the same hour as the two witnesses leave this world, ascending up to heaven in a cloud.

What is the third woe event to inhabiters of the earth ? The reader of Revelation is quickly made aware of what the third woe event is as the reader continues in Revelation 12.

--------------------------------------------------

Now that you know that Revelation 11:14 is John's commentary to the reader of Revelation - you should be able to get the correct
answer.

If you deny “interludes,” you’re deceiving yourself.

Do you say that Rev 7 chronologically follows Rev 6? The 144k (144,000 sealed servants of God introduced in Rev 7:3) facilitate the saving of a great multitude, beginning in the 2nd and 4th seals. Many unbelievers are converted and are ultimately martyred. They end up under the alter in Rev 6:9.

In Rev 6:11, Jesus says, the number of (martyrs) will not be complete until their “fellow servants” are killed, as they were. That second group of martyrs is found in Rev 20:4. They are martyrs from Rev 12:17 and Rev 13:7. Those are the martyrs from the GT spoken of in Rev 7:14. They are the “fellow servants” Jesus mentioned in Rev 6:11.

All those martyrs are resurrected together in the last sentence of Rev 20:4. They appear next in Heaven, in Rev 7:9-17. Those verses occur in the GT, which is proven by Rev 7:14.

Rev 7:1-8 occur early in the Trib, and Rev 7:9-17 occur in the GT.

You need to reevaluate your statement that “there is no interlude.”

 

[Douggg]

You need to reevaluate your statement that “there is no interlude.”

We were not talking about Revelation 7.

The discussion was on what is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth?

Evading answering that question, you claimed that Revelation 10 and part of Revelation 11 was an "interlude' from the continuation of Revelation 9, with a reconnect to Revelation 9, based on Revelation 11:14.

You did that because you do not understand that Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly....was a commentary to the reader of Revelation by John that as they keep reading it would be quickly revealed what the third woe is.

The third woe event to the inhabiters of the earth is in Revelation 12.

Now, for the seventh time I have asked you, what is the third woe event to inhabiters of the earth ?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

We were not talking about Revelation 7.

The discussion was on what is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth?

Evading answering that question, you claimed that Revelation 10 and part of Revelation 11 was an "interlude' from the continuation of Revelation 9, with a reconnect to Revelation 9, based on Revelation 11:14.

You did that because you do not understand that Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly....was a commentary to the reader of Revelation by John that as they keep reading it would be quickly revealed what the third woe is.

The third woe event to the inhabiters of the earth is in Revelation 12.

Now, for the seventh time I have asked you, what is the third woe event to inhabiters of the earth ?

Doug, you are dodging my question. Are you going to deny interludes are part of the Bible, with Rev 7's two halves, in two different times within the Trib, as a classic example?

 

[Douggg]

Doug, you are dodging my question. Are you going to deny interludes are part of the Bible, with Rev 7's two halves, in two different times within the Trib, as a classic example?

We were not talking about interludes in general.

 

[Douggg]

The 7th angel sounds in Revelation 11:15, right after the great earthquake in Jerusalem in Revelation 11:13 in the same hour the two witnesses leave this world, ascending in a cloud to heaven.

The third woe to the inhabiters of the earth that the 7th angel sounding announces is in Revelation 12:12.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The short time is the time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14

So the 1260 days of the two witnesses is the first half. And the time, times, half time (not quiet 1260 days) - is essentially the second half.

As shown on my time line chart below.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

We were not talking about interludes in general.

We were not talking about interludes in general.

In discussing Rev 11, we are talking about a chapter structured within an interlude. Rev 10 is a classic interlude. It has nothing to do with the seven trumpets or the 3rd woe. It interrupts the text from the ending verses of Rev 9 through Rev 11:13. You will not admit that FACT, because it completely invalidates your claim that the 2W operate only in the first half. The facts are not on your side, including the present tense applied to their authorization. That was about a future start on their mission. That mission begins in Matt 24:14.

 

[Douggg]

In discussing Rev 11, we are talking about a chapter structured within an interlude. Rev 10 is a classic interlude. It has nothing to do with the seven trumpets or the 3rd woe. It interrupts the text from the ending verses of Rev 9 through Rev 11:13. You will not admit that FACT, because it completely invalidates your claim that the 2W operate only in the first half. The facts are not on your side, including the present tense applied to their authorization. That was about a future start on their mission. That mission begins in Matt 24:14.

Jeffrey, chapters 10, 11, 12 all have to do when the two witnesses 1260 days is.

You cited Matthew 24:14 as part of your rationale that the two witness's testimony is in the second half, not first half.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

We are living in those end times.

Matthew 24:14 is not specific to the two witnesses. Matthew 24:14 has taken place over the past 2000 years, that the gospel of the kingdom be spread to all nations as a witness about Jesus. The two witnesses will be testifying in Jerusalem, where the gospel of the kingdom and Jesus has already been preached for the past 2000 years. The two witnesses will also be prophesying, not just preaching.

The third woe is revealed when the 7th angel sounds his trumpet.

When do you think the 7th angel sounds his trumpet in relation to the 2 witness's 1260 days ?

And for the eighth time I have asked you - what is the third woe event to the inhabiters of the earth, according to scripture ?

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The two witnesses 1260 days, first half. Then the 7th angel sounds. Revealing Satan's little time left of a time, times, half time, second half.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Jeffrey, chapters 10, 11, 12 all have to do when the two witnesses 1260 days is.

You cited Matthew 24:14 as part of your rationale that the two witness's testimony is in the second half, not first half.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

We are living in those end times.

Matthew 24:14 is not specific to the two witnesses. Matthew 24:14 has taken place over the past 2000 years, that the gospel of the kingdom be spread to all nations as a witness about Jesus. The two witnesses will be testifying in Jerusalem, where the gospel of the kingdom and Jesus has already been preached for the past 2000 years. The two witnesses will also be prophesying, not just preaching.

The third woe is revealed when the 7th angel sounds his trumpet.

When do you think the 7th angel sounds his trumpet in relation to the 2 witness's 1260 days ?

And for the eighth time I have asked you - what is the third woe event to the inhabiters of the earth, according to scripture ?

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The two witnesses 1260 days, first half. Then the 7th angel sounds. Revealing Satan's little time left of a time, times, half time, second half.

Rev 10:11 (ESV): And I was told, “You must again prophesy about many peoples and nations and languages and kings.”

It was John being told in Rev 10:11, not the 2W. The latter have nothing to do with Rev 10.

Rev 11:2-3 (ESV): 2 but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

Are you now going to admit the highlighted wording above is future-tense wording?

 

[Douggg]

Rev 10:11 (ESV): And I was told, “You must again prophesy about many peoples and nations and languages and kings.”

It was John being told in Rev 10:11, not the 2W. The latter have nothing to do with Rev 10.

After the two witnesses are killed, brought back to life and ascend to heaven in a cloud - the seventh angel sounds.

Revelation 10:7 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Those days are the time, times, half time that Satan will have left.

Two witnesses, 1260 days first half. Revelation 12:6, 1260 days first half. Revelation 12:12 third woe... lasting a time, times, half time, second half.

Are you now going to admit the highlighted wording above is future-tense wording?

I have never said anything about Revelation 11:2-3 being historic. The 42 months, the 1260 days are both future.

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For the ninth time I have asked you - what is the third woe event to the inhabiters of the earth, according to scripture ? Why won't you answer ?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

After the two witnesses are killed, brought back to life and ascend to heaven in a cloud - the seventh angel sounds.

Revelation 10:7 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Those days are the time, times, half time that Satan will have left.

Two witnesses, 1260 days first half. Revelation 12:6, 1260 days first half. Revelation 12:12 third woe... lasting a time, times, half time, second half.


I have never said anything about Revelation 11:2-3 being historic. The 42 months, the 1260 days are both future.

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For the ninth time I have asked you - what is the third woe event to the inhabiters of the earth, according to scripture ? Why won't you answer ?

Doug, we have unfinished biz. I am not moving forward until matters are settled. You are very capable at answering whatever you want to know about the third woe. I have no interest in that, right now.

I'll get back to you, later.

 

[Douggg]

Doug, we have unfinished biz. I am not moving forward until matters are settled. You are very capable at answering whatever you want to know about the third woe. I have no interest in that, right now.

I'll get back to you, later.

Jeffrey, I want you to acknowledge what the third woe is to the inhabiters of the earth event is.

Because that proves that the 1260 days of the two witnesses is the first half of the 7 years, not the second half.

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You keep saying that Revelation 10 has nothing to do with the woes, the first two of which by the fifth and sixth angels sounding, were in Revelation 9. But that is false, because in Revelation 10 and nowhere else does it say....

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

So Revelation 10 continues the subject of the woes, first started in Revelation 9. Revelation 10 is not an irrelevant interlude. It is extremely relevant.

 

[Douggg]

@Jeffrey Bowden

Do you recall me informing you in my post #301 that Revelation 11:14, of the second woe is past, and the third woe comes quickly, was John's commentary to the readers of Revelation ?

I want you to look at Revelation 9:12. John does the same thing in that verse. He makes a commentary to the readers of Revelation.

Revelation 9: 12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. ..

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. ..

 

[Spiritual Jew]

This is what you said to prompt my answer: Don't you believe that Jesus returns at the seventh trumpet?

The 7th trumpet triggers the seven bowls. The bowls are done before the 2A, per Matt 24:29.

So, you see the seven bowls as all happening in rapid succession right after the seventh trumpet blows? How much time do you see going by during the seven bowls?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

@Jeffrey Bowden

Do you recall me informing you in my post #301 that Revelation 11:14, of the second woe is past, and the third woe comes quickly, was John's commentary to the readers of Revelation ?

I want you to look at Revelation 9:12. John does the same thing in that verse. He makes a commentary to the readers of Revelation.

Revelation 9: 12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. ..

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. ..

The third woe is the seventh trumpet which you have sounding already even before the first woe/fifth trumpet sounds, which is completely ridiculous. No one should take anything you say about this seriously.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Rev 4:1 raptures the Church straight to Heaven, before the "hour of trial," which is the 7-year Trib. Jesus said in Rev 3:10, "I will keep you from the hour of trial ..."

We believers never enter the Trib. Rev 4:1 is the pre-Trib rapture of the Church.

Revelation 4:1 has absolutely nothing to do with the rapture. It has to do with John being given a vision. Equating that with the rapture is utterly ludicrous. You need to give that idea up. It's ridiculous. Your pre-trib rapture theory doctrine is based on wild assumptions and taking scripture out of context.

As for Revelation 3:10, that also has absolutely nothing to do with a pre-trib rapture. Your interpretation of that verse completely contradicts the one other verse in scripture where the Greek words "tereo" (keep) and "ek" (from) are used together. And they are used to describe being protected from evil while still on the earth and not being taken off of the earth to avoid it.

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep (Greek: tereo) them from (Greek: ek) the evil.

To be kept from the hour of trial absolutely does NOT require anyone to be taken out of the world. That contradicts what Jesus prayed for. Please learn to use scripture to interpret scripture and please stop reading things into scriptures like Revelation 4:1 that are not indicated in them.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Jeffrey, I want you to acknowledge what the third woe is to the inhabiters of the earth event is.

Because that proves that the 1260 days of the two witnesses is the first half of the 7 years, not the second half.

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You keep saying that Revelation 10 has nothing to do with the woes, the first two of which by the fifth and sixth angels sounding, were in Revelation 9. But that is false, because in Revelation 10 and nowhere else does it say....

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

So Revelation 10 continues the subject of the woes, first started in Revelation 9. Revelation 10 is not an irrelevant interlude. It is extremely relevant.

Doug, I am very busy.

Rev 11:2-3 occur after just before the midpoint.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

These are the judgments in the future. Every person is judged ONCE and no judgments are combined.

The Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10) happens on the day of the pre-Trib rapture per 2 Tim 4:8 ("on that day").

The AC and the false prophet are judged in Rev 19:20.

After Armageddon, the judgments of the sheep and goats: Matt 25:31-46.

After the MK: Satan is judged in Rev 20:10.

Then the GWTJ (Rev 20:11-15); all of the judgments above handle every type of person except those who died in sin. Therefore, that is exclusively the only group that shows up for the GWTJ. At the Judgment Seat of Christ, the raptured Church will appear (all living believers, including the resurrected dead in Christ). At the judgments of the sheep and goats, living believers ("the elect") and living unbelievers (survivors of the Trib) are judged. That leaves just one group not yet judged: those who died in sin (dead unbelievers).

You have 5 different judgments occurring even though scripture only ever speaks of one judgment day (day of judgment). One judgment event in other words. Not 5 separate ones.

Tell me, which of your supposed 5 judgments is this verse referring to:

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Which judgment is this referring to:

Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Which judgment is this referring to:

Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

At which of the supposed 5 separate judgments will all of the dead be raised and judged?

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Douggg]

The third woe is the seventh trumpet which you have sounding already even before the first woe/fifth trumpet sounds, which is completely ridiculous. No one should take anything you say about this seriously.

The seven angels having trumpets are standing before the throne of God, as John is there in heaven as well.

When the fifth angel sounds his trumpet a vision appears, presented for all in heaven to see. In Revelation 9, John describes what he sees as the vision is played out. And then the sixth angel sounds his trumpet, and another vision takes place. And John records it.

What I am pointing out is that the visions show what the first and second woes will be - not when the events will fall on a timeline.

On a timeline, the third woe event begins before the first and second woe events.

The first woe lasts 5 months.
The second woe lasts - how long, it is not said, but I would guess a couple of months.
The third woe lasts a time, times, half time - roughly three and a half years. The second half of the 7 years.

So where are you going to place woe's one and two ? I would place the woe two event as being near the end of the 7 years, as the kings of the east armies are marching toward Jerusalem to depose the beast-king (Daniel 11:44).

 

[Douggg]

Doug, I am very busy.

Rev 11:2-3 occur after just before the midpoint.

I understand. Get back when you have the time.