Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14

[Oseas]

Rev 4:1 is provably a future event. Apostle John never left the island of Patmos during the whole time of his vision of Revelation.

It is obvious that phisycally John left not the isle of Patmos, but SPIRITUTALLY John was brought on the Lord's Day, that is the current Day, the Lord's Day, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last Millennium, to meet with Michael who should manifest himself EXACTLY in this current time to DESTROY the wicked NATIONS of the Devil as an IMPLOSION- Daniel 12:1-3 & Matthew 24:15, and 1Thessalonians 4:16 and Revelation 1:12-13 and 22:8-10. And the KINGDOM of GOD will be established from now on.

Similar evento happened with Paul Apostle: 2Corinthians 12:2-4: -> 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: GOD knoweth. such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: GOD knoweth.
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Two verses: Rev 1:1 and Rev 22:8 prove that it was one angel who showed John everything he heard and saw in his vision of Revelation.

Revelation 1:1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and JESUS sent and signified it by His angel (in fact an Archangel) unto His servant John: (physically in the island of Patmos-Revelation 1:12-13 combined with Isaiah 30:21 and Ezekiel 3:12.) He was brought to the current time in Spirit, for us John travelled in space and time, but not for GOD, the Spirit, He is Omnipresent, there is no time for Him.

Therefore, Rev 4:1 is a future event, the pre-Trib rapture of the Church, straight to Heaven.

No true, that's a false and demonic interpretation. Michael fights and MAKES WAR in this current time, in this last Day, the Lord's Day, seventh and last Millennium, and John described all events for the current time on the destruction of this World of Devil.

The Sword of Michael is appointed against all nations, similar when appointed against Balaam, including appointed against the carnal and esoteric and kabbalistic Israel. The Devil's world must be destroyed as a whole-Revelation 11:18 among many other biblical references, just as Sodom and Gomorrah were. Are not you still seeing?

Get ready

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Just because Christians are not specifically mentioned at the Sixth Seal, does not mean they won't be present.
That we are is proved by the many verses saying how we must keep strong, trusting the Lord and enduring until the end. Also how we must take shelter on that terrible Day. Isaiah 26:20-21

the truth? Or JB's fanciful idea, made to prop up a false theory.
Please provide a scripture that says the 144k convert anyone.

Here are verses about the 144k's conversions.

What is the FIRST word out of the mouths of the GM in Rev 7:10? Why that word? The 144k led that multitude to salvation, by the grace of God.

Rev 7:16 proves the GM were unbelievers. Only unbelievers in the Trib will be subjected to the wrath of God. Jesus said so in Rev 3:10. Only "those" will be tried in the hour of trial. "Those" are who dwell on the earth. "Those" are who will be left behind after Rev 4:1.

Tell me why all this is in Rev 7. The GM is praising God for their salvation; a multitude led to salvation by the 144k.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Just because Christians are not specifically mentioned at the Sixth Seal, does not mean they won't be present.
That we are is proved by the many verses saying how we must keep strong, trusting the Lord and enduring until the end. Also how we must take shelter on that terrible Day. Isaiah 26:20-21

the truth? Or JB's fanciful idea, made to prop up a false theory.
Please provide a scripture that says the 144k convert anyone.

Keras, you are making things up. There no believers mentioned in the 6th seal because there are no believers on Earth at the time of the 6th seal. We're not even on Earth per the 2nd seal. The pre-Trib rapture happens before the Trib. That is proven by Rev 4:1.

 

[keras]

Keras, you are making things up. There no believers mentioned in the 6th seal because there are no believers on Earth at the time of the 6th seal. We're not even on Earth per the 2nd seal. The pre-Trib rapture happens before the Trib. That is proven by Rev 4:1.

Revelation 4:1 simply does not prove a general rapture to heaven.
Your use of that verse just shows the complete lack of any scriptural support for a rapture;

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Revelation 4:1 simply does not prove a general rapture to heaven.
Your use of that verse just shows the complete lack of any scriptural support for a rapture.

Rev 4:1 is the rapture of the Church because apostle John never was raptured to Heaven. He wrote about the rapture just as he wrote about everything else in Revelation that he heard and saw from one angel. Rev 1:1 and Rev 22:8 prove it.

 

[keras]

Rev 4:1 is the rapture of the Church because apostle John never was raptured to Heaven. He wrote about the rapture just as he wrote about everything else in Revelation that he heard and saw from one angel. Rev 1:1 and Rev 22:8 prove it.

Is there anyone else who agrees with this?
I would doubt it. Such a stretch of imagination is only made by the hopelessly confused and deceived.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Is there anyone else who agrees with this?
I would doubt it. Such a stretch of imagination is only made by the hopelessly confused and deceived.

Keras, let's see how you interpret Rev 3:10. Jesus said in Rev 3:10 that, "I will keep you from the hour of trial ..." He was referring to keeping us from the Trib. The Trib will envelop the whole world. So, where will Jesus take us to, to keep us from the Trib that will envelop the whole world?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Is there anyone else who agrees with this?
I would doubt it. Such a stretch of imagination is only made by the hopelessly confused and deceived.

Here's proof of the pre-Trib rapture. Prove me wrong.

1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Ezekiel 14:21 (NLT): “Now this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How terrible it will be when all four of these dreadful punishments fall upon Jerusalem—war, famine, wild animals, and disease—destroying all her people and animals.

Rev 6:4 (NLT): When the Lamb broke the second seal, I heard the second living being say, “Come!” 4 Then another horse appeared, a red one. Its rider was given a mighty sword and the authority to take peace from the earth. And there was war and slaughter everywhere.

Rev 6:8 (NLT): I looked up and saw a horse whose color was pale green. Its rider was named Death, and his companion was the Grave. These two were given authority over one-fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword and famine and disease and wild animals.

One of God's "dreadful punishments" (war) is in Rev 6:4. All four of God's "dreadful punishments" are in Rev 6:8. The early seals are full of God's wrath. That is the "wrath to come," and the earliest it will come is in Rev 6:4 (simultaneous wars all over the world caused by God).

Therefore, Rev 6:4 is "the wrath to come" in 1 Th 1:10. It will be Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

What does "delivers us" mean? From Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology - Deliver: The second usage of deliverance refers to the Acts of God whereby he rescues his people from danger. The key words nasal [l;v"n] ("draw out, snatch away"), palat [f;l'P] ("make an escape"), malat [f;l'm] ("to cause to escape"), halas [l'j] (to "draw out"), and yasa [[;v"y] ("to save") fall within the field of meaning describing God's redemptive activity on the part of his people. This usage of deliverance focuses on God's removal of those who are in the midst of trouble or danger.

God will know when the wrath will come to start the Trib. When it's about to come, we believers will be snatched away from Earth. That's what 1 Th 1:10 is about, which simultaneously fulfills 1 Th 4:16, 1 Cor 15:52, 1 Th 4:17, John 14:3 and Rev 4:1. In greater detail, the "last trump" will sound in 1 Th 4:16. We will be changed into our eternal bodies (1 Cor 15:52) and we are then snatched away (1 Th 4:17 and John 14:3) straight to Heaven (Rev 4:1).

The verses cited above all relate to the same pre-Trib rapture. Therefore, they collectively serve as proof of the pre-Trib rapture.

 

[keras]

Keras, let's see how you interpret Rev 3:10.

I have done it before. That verse has no support for the false rapture theory.

Here's proof of the pre-Trib rapture. Prove me wrong.

Nothing you post, or anything in the Bible; supports the rapture to heaven fable.

You really need to think how stupid you are going to look, when disaster comes and you will still be on earth.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I have done it before. That verse has no support for the false rapture theory.

Nothing you post, or anything in the Bible; supports the rapture to heaven fable.

You really need to think how stupid you are going to look, when disaster comes and you will still be on earth.

Keras, you have not disproven anything I have said. I am quoting Jesus. He was referring to the Trib in Rev 3:10. He said, "I will keep YOU (added emphasis) from the hour of trial..." He stressed how the Trib will be "coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth." I have proven in the past that "those who dwell on the earth" is a phrase, that when used in the context of the Trib, it exclusively refers to unbelievers. Only unbelievers will inhabit the earth during the Trib. Only unbelievers will be tried in the hour of trial. Jesus said so. Are you saying Jesus is wrong?

We believers are kept from the Trib. The Trib will be "coming on the whole earth." So, where we be taken to since it can't be anywhere on Earth?

You are missing the fact that the rapture verses are fulfilled together: 1 Th 4:16 occurs, then 1 Cor 15:52, then 1 Th 4:17 which is the "delivers us" in 1 Th 1:10 and the "will take you to myself" in John 14:3. We will have our eternal bodies (1 Cor 15:52). Therefore, where will be taken to since Rev 3:10 forbids us to be anywhere on Earth?

Here's a clue: Rev 4:1 pre-Trib raptures the Church straight to Heaven. Everything apostle John heard and saw in his vision was shown to him by one angel. The proof is in Rev 1:1 and Rev 22:8, and throughout the administration of his vision. Therefore, John only wrote about Rev 4:1, just as he wrote about everything else concerning Rev.

Prove Jesus isn't referring to keeping us from the Trib in Rev 3:10. Prove that we won't have our eternal bodies from 1 Cor 15:52. Therefore, prove that we won't be raptured to Heaven pre-Trib when 1 Th 1:10 and Rev 3:10 prove that the other verses cited above are fulfilled together pre-Trib.

 

[Douggg]

Keras, you have not disproven anything I have said. I am quoting Jesus. He was referring to the Trib in Rev 3:10. He said, "I will keep YOU (added emphasis) from the hour of trial..." He stressed how the Trib will be "coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth." I have proven in the past that "those who dwell on the earth" is a phrase, that when used in the context of the Trib, it exclusively refers to unbelievers. Only unbelievers will inhabit the earth during the Trib. Only unbelievers will be tried in the hour of trial. Jesus said so. Are you saying Jesus is wrong?

We believers are kept from the Trib. The Trib will be "coming on the whole earth." So, where we be taken to since it can't be anywhere on Earth?

You are missing the fact that the rapture verses are fulfilled together: 1 Th 4:16 occurs, then 1 Cor 15:52, then 1 Th 4:17 which is the "delivers us" in 1 Th 1:10 and the "will take you to myself" in John 14:3. We will have our eternal bodies (1 Cor 15:52). Therefore, where will be taken to since Rev 3:10 forbids us to be anywhere on Earth?

Here's a clue: Rev 4:1 pre-Trib raptures the Church straight to Heaven. Everything apostle John heard and saw in his vision was shown to him by one angel. The proof is in Rev 1:1 and Rev 22:8, and throughout the administration of his vision. Therefore, John only wrote about Rev 4:1, just as he wrote about everything else concerning Rev.

Prove Jesus isn't referring to keeping us from the Trib in Rev 3:10. Prove that we won't have our eternal bodies from 1 Cor 15:52. Therefore, prove that we won't be raptured to Heaven pre-Trib when 1 Th 1:10 and Rev 3:10 prove that the other verses cited above are fulfilled together pre-Trib.

Jeffrey, keras has apparently not read Philippians3:20-21.

20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. NIV

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Jeffrey, keras has apparently not read Philippians3:20-21.

20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. NIV

Thank you, Doug! That is a great chapter.

What Keras doesn't get is the Trib is about converting unbelievers, especially those in Israel. The Trib is seven years of God proving Himself to be Almighty God, over and over, and to be merciful as God. He is seeking repentance in the Trib. It is an environment for potential conversion. It is therefore an environment that is wholly improper for believers to populate because we have already repented and believe in Jesus.

Furthermore, it is the job of the 144k (Rev 7:1-8) to facilitate the greatest revival in the Trib.

Do you know that the GM ("great multitude" in Rev 7:9-17) is 100% made up of unbelievers who convert in the Trib? What is the FIRST word out of the mouths of the GM in Rev 7:10? Why that word? The GM finds it of the highest importance to FIRST praise God for their salvation.

Rev 7:16 proves the GM were all unbelievers. Only unbelievers will populate the Trib (Rev 3:10). It is therefore only unbelievers who will be subjected to the wrath of God.

It is the very hard-working 144k that will lead a great multitude to salvation in the Trib, by the grace of God Almighty.

The earliest known citation of the 144k in the Trib is in Rev 9:4 (NIV): They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

The 144k are those sealed servants of God (Rev 7:3) that are found in Rev 9:4. Only unbelievers and the 144k are on Earth as of Rev 9:4. But, we know the 144k are on Earth as early as the 2nd and 4th seals, as the incredible carnage from those two seals creates billions of dead unbelievers. Before it's too late, many unbelievers will see the light, repent and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. They then give testimony of Jesus, and they are soon martyred.

They all end up under the altar in Rev 6:9. They are told to wait longer for their "fellow servants" (Rev 6:11) to be killed as they were. Those fellow servants are the martyrs from Rev 12:17 and Rev 13:15. Those fellow servants, who also become martyrs, are then parked under the altar in Rev 20:4 (strongly implied to be under the altar). All those martyrs are resurrected together in the last sentence of Rev 20:4. They appear next, in Heaven, in Rev 7:9-17.

Rev 7 is about the greatest revival in the Trib, facilitated by the 144k and the grace of God Almighty.

 

[keras]

, keras has apparently not read Philippians3:20-21.

20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. NIV

Apparently; you are as confused and deluded as you ever were. Corrections and showing you to be wrong, are just brushed off.

Does Phil 3:20 say we will live in heaven? NO, if does not, it refers to having our names Written in the Book of Life. Malachi 3:16-17
We know exactly when Pauls prophecy in Phil 3:21, will take place - After the Millennium; Rev 20:11-15, when the Book of Life is opened.

These facts are irrefutable truths. Unless you can find anything to make Paul into a false prophet, then it is you who is the false teacher and a promoter of wrong beliefs.

 

[keras]

Rev 7 is about the greatest revival in the Trib, facilitated by the 144k and the grace of God Almighty.

Revelation 7 is not about a revival.
It is the gathering of all the faithful Christians into all of the holy Land, where Jesus will reveal Himself to them, 2 Thess 1:10, Revelation 14:1, and will select the 144,000 out from them.
They will go out to the nations and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19

There is no rapture/ removal from the earth, to be found anywhere in the Bible. If there was, I would have seen it and would agree with your belief.
But there is no Biblical support for the rapture and it is a duty of all Christians to refute and reject false teachings.

Like Douggg and many others, you will have to explain to God, why you believed such unbiblical rubbish.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Revelation 7 is not about a revival.
It is the gathering of all the faithful Christians into all of the holy Land, where Jesus will reveal Himself to them, 2 Thess 1:10, Revelation 14:1, and will select the 144,000 out from them.
They will go out to the nations and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19

There is no rapture/ removal from the earth, to be found anywhere in the Bible. If there was, I would have seen it and would agree with your belief.
But there is no Biblical support for the rapture and it is a duty of all Christians to refute and reject false teachings.

Like Douggg and many others, you will have to explain to God, why you believed such unbiblical rubbish.

Keras, Rev 7:16 proves that the GM were, at first, unbelievers (being subjected to God’s wrath in the Trib).

Rev 7:10 finds the GM in Heaven. Most important to them is to praise God for their salvation. That means a great multitude of new converts (the GM) will occur in the Trib.

The 144k are honored as sealed servants of God in Rev 7:1-8. The GT is HALTED to honor the 144k. They facilitate the salvation of the GM.

Rev 7 is about the greatest revival in the Trib.

 

[keras]

Rev 7:10 finds the GM in Heaven

Revelation 7:10 And they shouted loudly: Victory to our God who sits on the Throne and to the Lamb.
You either hallucinate, or deliberately add to scripture. A very bad and wrong thing to do.

Revelation 7:1-3 sets an earthly scene. Nowhere is a location change mentioned. Or the word 'heaven' used.
You are in fact a recidivist and chronic changer of scripture and you promote the false rapture theory

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Revelation 7:10 And they shouted loudly: Victory to our God who sits on the Throne and to the Lamb.
You either hallucinate, or deliberately add to scripture. A very bad and wrong thing to do.

Revelation 7:1-3 sets an earthly scene. Nowhere is a location change mentioned. Or the word 'heaven' used.
You are in fact a recidivist and chronic changer of scripture and you promote the false rapture theory

The GM is in Heaven in Rev 7:9 (NKJV): After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Rev 7:10 (NKJV): and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

When in Heaven, the first word out of the mouths of the GM will be “Salvation." The first thing they will do in Heaven is thank God for their salvation because they will have entered the Trib as unbelievers, per Rev 7:16 (NKJV): They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat;

Rev 7:16 cites specific forms of God's wrath. Only unbelievers in the Trib will be subjected to God's wrath, so says Jesus in Rev 3:10. Rev 7:16 proves the GM will enter the Trib as unbelievers, and they end up saved and in Heaven in Rev 7:9. The 144k will have facilitated their salvation because Rev 7 is about the greatest revival in the Trib.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Revelation 7:10 And they shouted loudly: Victory to our God who sits on the Throne and to the Lamb.
You either hallucinate, or deliberately add to scripture. A very bad and wrong thing to do.

Revelation 7:1-3 sets an earthly scene. Nowhere is a location change mentioned. Or the word 'heaven' used.
You are in fact a recidivist and chronic changer of scripture and you promote the false rapture theory

Revelation 7:10 And they shouted loudly: Victory to our God who sits on the Throne and to the Lamb.
You either hallucinate, or deliberately add to scripture. A very bad and wrong thing to do.

Revelation 7:1-3 sets an earthly scene. Nowhere is a location change mentioned. Or the word 'heaven' used.
You are in fact a recidivist and chronic changer of scripture and you promote the false rapture theory

Rev 7:1-8 have to occur in the first half of the Trib because the 144k are in Rev 9:4, which is a first-half chapter. That doesn't say they start their mission in Rev 9:4. The 144k are in action for the 2nd and 4th seals. That is what accounts for all those martyrs under the altar in Rev 6:9.

Rev 7:9-17 have to occur in the second half of the Trib because the GM show up in Heaven during the GT (Rev 7:14).

Rev 7:9-10 prove the GM praise God for their salvation, and they deliver that praise to God in Heaven. Rev 7:9-10 (ESV): After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

Rev 7:16 proves the GM were unbelievers when entering the Trib. This also proves that Rev 7 is about the greatest revival in the Trib.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Apparently; you are as confused and deluded as you ever were. Corrections and showing you to be wrong, are just brushed off.

Does Phil 3:20 say we will live in heaven? NO, if does not, it refers to having our names Written in the Book of Life. Malachi 3:16-17
We know exactly when Pauls prophecy in Phil 3:21, will take place - After the Millennium; Rev 20:11-15, when the Book of Life is opened.

These facts are irrefutable truths. Unless you can find anything to make Paul into a false prophet, then it is you who is the false teacher and a promoter of wrong beliefs.

Keras, we go to live in Heaven upon 1 Th 1:10 which triggers the simultaneous fulfillment of 1 Th 4:16-17, 1 Cor 15:52, John 14:3 and Rev 4:1.

You are further refuted by the following. These are all of the judgments in the future. Every person is judged ONCE and no judgments are combined.

The Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10) happens on the day of the pre-Trib rapture per 2 Tim 4:8 ("on that day").

The AC and the false prophet are judged in Rev 19:20.

After Armageddon, the judgments of the sheep and goats: Matt 25:31-46.

After the MK: Satan is judged in Rev 20:10.

Then the GWTJ (Rev 20:11-15); all of the judgments above handle every type of person except those who died in sin. Therefore, that is exclusively the only group that shows up for the GWTJ. At the Judgment Seat of Christ, the raptured Church will appear (all living believers, including the resurrected dead in Christ). At the judgments of the sheep and goats, living believers ("the elect") and living unbelievers (survivors of the Trib) are judged. That leaves just one group not yet judged: those who died in sin (dead unbelievers).

 

[keras]

Keras, we go to live in Heaven upon 1 Th 1:10

That verse simply does not say that. Neither does any other Bible verse.
Unless a scripture can be found that says the Lords people will go to live in heaven, then it is a lie and will never happen.

Your lengthy posts are just opinion and guesswork. You are discredited and shown to be a false teacher.
But; to your credit, you have made some people re-think their beliefs, as they see how ridiculous and arrogant the belief of a rapture to heaven is.