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Where Is Muhammad Ali Now?
- Thread starter rockytopva
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awitch
Retired from Christian Forums
- Mar 31, 2008
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When interacting with Christians as a whole, we hear a wide variety of beliefs that are sometimes explicitly stated in scripture, and some that are implied according to interpretation. Assuming that hell does exist, I'd hate to think that any benevolent entity would send anyone there who wasn't deserving. On the other hand, no matter how horrible a person is in this life, I don't think an infinite torment is ever deserved.
Well, if he's out there, he knows where I am and he knows that I've been making a sincere attempt to commune with the divine to the best of my ability for the last two decades. In my opinion, I'm not the one who failed.
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smaneck
Baha'i
I have to tell you a story about Billy Graham that is pretty awesome. It was told to me by a Baha'i friend of mine. Well, I'll let him tell it:
"At one (long) point in my northern sojourn I had a home just around
the corner from KJNP AM "your 50,000 watt gospel voice of the north"
(KJNP supposedly meant "King Jesus, North Pole) & due to various
circumstances I became the station management's personal teaching
project. If they'd been calmer about it I wouldn't be laughing about
it so much. ;{)>
It came to pass that I was out of town for a couple of weeks & ended
up returning a full day before I had originally planned (& arranged
with my friends who had my car.) As this was the time before cell
phones & not everybody had answering machines as yet I couldn't
contact my friends with news of the change of plans, so I decided to
trust in God & try to hitchhike home.
Imagine how I felt when the KJNP van pulled up.
I decided that a ride is a ride & that I would in all probability get
dropped off at my own front door step so I got in to the van & found
the top management of the station (with whom I had spent many an hour
over tea &c.) & a new face that I recognized but could not
immediately place. The station people were grinning like wolves
looking at a very fat baby moose who was bleating for its mama.
This is where things get interesting. before they introduced me to
their guest one of the KJNP people (who also worked as a DJ, he had a
lovely voice) starts working the same argument on me that he'd been
losing for several weeks about the divinity of Christ vs the humanity
thereof.
Then the stranger piped in before I had quite gotten ready a response
to the very specious question that I was asked & asked who I might
be. So I introduced myself & offered my hand he took my hand &
introduced himself. I think it was the very first time that the
management of KJNP had ever seen me flabbergasted.
While I was collecting my marbles the station president explained
that I was one of those heathen Baha'is that claim that Christ would
dare to return as a "Muhammaden" &c. & that they were trying to
convince me of the errors my ways. I replied, as calmly as I could
under the circumstances that I had yet to find an error in my ways
but that they were more than welcome to investigate my beliefs to try
to find some. But, since everything that they knew about the Baha'i
Faith was either from myself or from reading works by people with an
agenda against the Faith yadda yadda.
Rev. Graham agreed with me that if one is investigating the truth of
another man's beliefs it is best to go to the source of that belief.
After the ensuing uproar the DJ commented that I had never answered
his question. So I did, knowing full well that whatever answer I gave
would be attacked for it "obvious" weaknesses. It was.
Then Mr. Graham piped in again. On my side. Then he began to lambast
the KJNP staff for their unchristian behavior in "ganging up" on
somebody. During this tongue-lashing he mentioned that one of his
favorite neighbors was a Baha'i, that he had read some of the books &
whereas he could not accept the teachings as his own, there was a
great wisdom there that *all* Christians could learn from. That my
answer to the question satisfied him because it was "a really stupid
question" that was answered with wisdom & patience. "Baha'is believe
in God, love the Lord Jesus & repent their sins, isn't that what we
ask of our own people?"
It was a thoroughly cowed crew that pulled the van up to my domicile,
I was assisted out with quiet thoughtfulness. I thanked Mr. Graham as
graciously as I could stating that I would invite the whole lot of
them in but I'd been away from home for a while & there was no food
in the house. Mr. Graham smiled, thanked me (he had gotten out of the
van to) put his hand on my shoulder & quietly stated that if more
Christians acted like the very few Baha'is he'd met then Christianity
would indeed be the only religion in the world. I told him that I was
really not all that good, "I'm trying, sometimes very trying, but I
do my best. Thanks, I'll pray for your continued success."
"And I for yours." He got back into the van & they left.
That evening, on the radio, I listened to the discussion (& sermon)
with the good reverend & he mentioned his encounter with me in
passing. It was all very positive.
I wonder who his Baha'i neighbor was, & what their relationship was
like. That is the person who I really feel deserves the credit here.
But, if I had allowed myself to lose my temper the situation would
have been memorable for a very different reason."
I wish Franklin Graham was half the man his father was.
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smaneck
Baha'i
[QUOTE="sdowney717, post: 69720198, member: 329446"
True Christianity divides those of the world from the children of God. Not all are the children of God, but only those the Father has given to Christ as believers in Him. If your not of God, and His child, then you are of Satan and will go to be with your spiritual father, Satan, in hell upon your passing from this life into eternal death.[/QUOTE]
Baha'is take the opposite view. As Abdu'l-Baha said:
“Throughout past centuries each system of religious belief has boasted of its own superiority and excellence, abasing and scorning the validity of all others. Each has proclaimed its own belief as the light and all others as darkness. Religionists have considered the world of humanity as two trees: one divine and merciful, the other satanic; they themselves the branches, leaves and fruit of the divine tree and all others who differ from them in belief the product of the tree which is satanic. Therefore, sedition and warfare, bloodshed and strife have been continuous among them. The greatest cause of human alienation has been religion because each party has considered the belief of the other as anathema and deprived of the mercy of God.”
He went on to say:
“God alone is Creator, and all are creatures of His might. Therefore, we must love mankind as His creatures, realizing that all are growing upon the tree of His mercy, servants of His omnipotent will and manifestations of His good pleasure.
Even though we find a defective branch or leaf upon this tree of humanity or an imperfect blossom, it, nevertheless, belongs to this tree and not to another. Therefore, it is our duty to protect and cultivate this tree until it reaches perfection. If we examine its fruit and find it imperfect, we must strive to make it perfect. There are souls in the human world who are ignorant; we must make them knowing. Some growing upon the tree are weak and ailing; we must assist them toward health and recovery. If they are as infants in development, we must minister to them until they attain maturity. We should never detest and shun them as objectionable and unworthy. We must treat them with honor, respect and kindness; for God has created them and not Satan. They are not manifestations of the wrath of God but evidences of His divine favor. God, the Creator, has endowed them with physical, mental and spiritual qualities that they may seek to know and do His will; therefore, they are not objects of His wrath and condemnation. In brief, all humanity must be looked upon with love, kindness and respect; for what we behold in them are none other than the signs and traces of God Himself.”
True Christianity divides those of the world from the children of God. Not all are the children of God, but only those the Father has given to Christ as believers in Him. If your not of God, and His child, then you are of Satan and will go to be with your spiritual father, Satan, in hell upon your passing from this life into eternal death.[/QUOTE]
Baha'is take the opposite view. As Abdu'l-Baha said:
“Throughout past centuries each system of religious belief has boasted of its own superiority and excellence, abasing and scorning the validity of all others. Each has proclaimed its own belief as the light and all others as darkness. Religionists have considered the world of humanity as two trees: one divine and merciful, the other satanic; they themselves the branches, leaves and fruit of the divine tree and all others who differ from them in belief the product of the tree which is satanic. Therefore, sedition and warfare, bloodshed and strife have been continuous among them. The greatest cause of human alienation has been religion because each party has considered the belief of the other as anathema and deprived of the mercy of God.”
He went on to say:
“God alone is Creator, and all are creatures of His might. Therefore, we must love mankind as His creatures, realizing that all are growing upon the tree of His mercy, servants of His omnipotent will and manifestations of His good pleasure.
Even though we find a defective branch or leaf upon this tree of humanity or an imperfect blossom, it, nevertheless, belongs to this tree and not to another. Therefore, it is our duty to protect and cultivate this tree until it reaches perfection. If we examine its fruit and find it imperfect, we must strive to make it perfect. There are souls in the human world who are ignorant; we must make them knowing. Some growing upon the tree are weak and ailing; we must assist them toward health and recovery. If they are as infants in development, we must minister to them until they attain maturity. We should never detest and shun them as objectionable and unworthy. We must treat them with honor, respect and kindness; for God has created them and not Satan. They are not manifestations of the wrath of God but evidences of His divine favor. God, the Creator, has endowed them with physical, mental and spiritual qualities that they may seek to know and do His will; therefore, they are not objects of His wrath and condemnation. In brief, all humanity must be looked upon with love, kindness and respect; for what we behold in them are none other than the signs and traces of God Himself.”
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smaneck
Baha'i
And you therefore feel compelled to come to come to the board dedicated to fellowship between religions to denounce him?
Hmmm. Sounds like you don't have much to complain about when it comes to Islam. But I suggest you read the rules of this particular part of the forum before you start using that sword. Otherwise, you may end up like Peter, cutting off people's ears.
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smaneck
Baha'i
Matthew 25. The righteous Hindu is in.
That chapter was read at my father's funeral and the homily based on it. Afterwards my fundamentalist uncle came up to me and said, "Don't you want to receive Jesus before it is too late?" I just shook my head and wondered if he had heard a verse of that scripture.
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