Where Is Muhammad Ali Now?

[MehGuy]

Sad to say I was one of those Christian who tended to take joy in it.

At the time I didn't think much of it, I thought it was justified and righteous to enjoy the idea of the wicked burning.

Although when I became an atheist those past thoughts kind of haunted me and made me wonder what kind of person I was.

My reasons? Probably a sense of revenge and maybe an outlet for whatever anger I felt in my life. Although to be fair, I think I might not feel the same if I were actually witnessing others burning. I don't know.

I remember having one atheist friend. I'd always get angry when he insulted Christianity.. I was like.. someday you're gonna get it. Lol. I was like around 8-10 at the time. Kind of a bipolarish view of my supposed friend. Lol.

 

[Born Again2004]

It seems to me from casual observation on CF that one things Christians really take joy in is recounting who is suffering in hell.

I don't understand this obsession. Is it a revenge fantasy? Or is it the idea that "hey I'm better than that guy! See I get to the go to heaven!" (something I've seen expressed quite a bit on here).

At any rate, it is vexing.

Please show the threads of such Christians!

 

[Born Again2004]

What on earth are you talking about?
Are you okay?
-

I am perfectly fine thank you and I am talking about you...you insinuated that you were of a Christo-Pagan faith...I didn't say it....you did...are you O.K. ?
For those who don't know, Syncretism is the combining of different, often contradictory beliefs. In reality, you are either Pagan or Christian...you can't be both!

 

[awitch]

Please show the threads of such Christians!

You're reading one right now.

 

[Born Again2004]

Sad to say I was one of those Christian who tended to take joy in it.
At the time I didn't think much of it, I thought it was justified and righteous to enjoy the idea of the wicked burning.

Your idea of justified and righteous proves to me that you were never a true Christian in the first place! Righteousness comes from Christ in you and you are justified by God, not by yourself. I personally have never seen a Christian, truly justified, that takes joy in another's pain!
The Bible says that God will never leave you and Jesus says that he will never lose who God gives him.....how does a true Christian, with Christ in him, fall away from that?

 

[Fizzywig]

Here is what St Thomas Aquinas said....

Wherefore in order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to themand that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned. Q.94, Art. 1 (Emphasis added throughout.)

And further.....

But in the future state it will be impossible for them [the damned] to be taken away from their unhappiness: and consequently it will not be possible to pity their sufferings according to right reason. Therefore the blessed in glory will have no pity on the damned. Q.94, Art. 2

It does seem strange that we are asked to love our neighbours as ourselves, and that when we reach perfection we are then able to take pleasure in the suffering of those who were our neighbours and feel no pity at all.

Such is paradise.


(Well, of course, they only have themselves to blame and thus the "blessed" are actually recognising the "justice" of God and taking pleasure in that, and not in the actually suffering)

 

[Born Again2004]

You're reading one right now.

My question was to @Zoness ,,,,what are you talking about? That's not an answer!

 

[Fizzywig]

Your idea of justified and righteous proves to me that you were never a true Christian in the first place! Righteousness comes from Christ in you and you are justified by God, not by yourself. I personally have never seen a Christian, truly justified, that takes joy in another's pain!
The Bible says that God will never leave you and Jesus says that he will never lose who God gives him.....how does a true Christian, with Christ in him, fall away from that?

Ah ha! I did wonder when the "you were not a true Christian in the first place" would appear........

 

[Born Again2004]

Ah ha! I did wonder when the "you were not a true Christian in the first place" would appear........

Ah ha!That doesn't make it any less true my friend!

 

[Born Again2004]

Here is what St Thomas Aquinas said....

Wherefore in order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to themand that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned. Q.94, Art. 1 (Emphasis added throughout.)

And further.....

But in the future state it will be impossible for them [the damned] to be taken away from their unhappiness: and consequently it will not be possible to pity their sufferings according to right reason. Therefore the blessed in glory will have no pity on the damned. Q.94, Art. 2

It does seem strange that we are asked to love our neighbours as ourselves, and that when we reach perfection we are then able to take pleasure in the suffering of those who were our neighbours and feel no pity at all.

Such is paradise.


(Well, of course, they only have themselves to blame and thus the "blessed" are actually recognising the "justice" of God and taking pleasure in that, and not in the actually suffering)

Is that the Bible that you are quoting?

 

[Fizzywig]

Ah ha!That doesn't make it any less true my friend!

You saying it does not make it right.

 

[Fizzywig]

Is that the Bible that you are quoting?

Ah! spoken by a true "sola scriptura" believer - a relative modernist form of the Christian Faith. (I believe that there is Biblical warning about these latter day types........)

But stop to think........the words of a believer, thus one guided by the holy spirit.........if he can still be wrong it thus follows that one can be a believer yet still be wrong. (Thus the origination of the no "true" Christian claim to protect the infallibility of those who "merely quote God" and not their own opinion/interpretation of any Biblical verse)

To answer you, no, yet such teaching is part of certain Calvinist teachings, and of the Church if England (according to the website I accessed)

 

[awitch]

My question was to @Zoness ,,,,what are you talking about? That's not an answer!

In my experience it's also not uncommon to encounter Christians who delight in reminding everyone who doesn't believe as them will be punished in hell. They seem fixated on that concept and seem to delight in the idea.

Reread this thread as if you weren't a Christian.

 

[awitch]

Ah ha! I did wonder when the "you were not a true Christian in the first place" would appear........

Remind me to ask the staff why it's a violation of the rules to imply that a Christian is not really a Christian, but it's OK to explicitly say someone who is no longer a Christian was never actually a Christian in the past.

 

[bhsmte]

My question was to @Zoness ,,,,what are you talking about? That's not an answer!

Read the thread.

 

[Fizzywig]

Remind me to ask the staff why it's a violation of the rules to imply that a Christian is not really a Christian, but it's OK to explicitly say someone who is no longer a Christian was never actually a Christian in the past.

Dear awitch, can I please remind you to..........

Maybe the crucial question of whether the correct doctrine is "once saved always saved" OR, that one can in fact "lose salvation though once saved" comes into this somewhere. (Though apparently the Bible is often claimed to be "quite clear" on fundamental matters, such a fundamental matter seems unclear given the various disputes I have witnessed on this vexing question)

 

[Rajni]

I am perfectly fine thank you and I am talking about you...you insinuated that you were of a Christo-Pagan faith...I didn't say it....you did...are you O.K. ?

Go back and read that post again.
You'll notice I did not say that *I* was Christo-Pagan.
Did you even read the link I shared therein? I'll bet not.
Understanding those with whom one engages is far
preferable to merely toying with one's own self-
constructed straw-men. I strongly suggest it.

For those who don't know, Syncretism is the combining of different, often contradictory beliefs. In reality, you are either Pagan or Christian...you can't be both!

If there's a term for something, it's being done, so to say it
can't be done is to simply argue with reality.

And as I said before, Christo-Paganism is another
topic, meaning not one we necessarily have to get
into in this thread as it would be off-topic. Did you
miss that part too?


-

 

[Born Again2004]

In my experience it's also not uncommon to encounter Christians who delight in reminding everyone who doesn't believe as them will be punished in hell. They seem fixated on that concept and seem to delight in the idea.

Reread this thread as if you weren't a Christian.

Well, in my experience, I have never seen such an action. Now any true Christian would know that there is the existence of Hell and a place for unbelievers...that's what the Bible teaches and, if truthful, a Christian will acknowledge the existence of hell....if a non-believer takes acceptation to that, so be it!...but don't perpetrate that a Christian is evil and enjoys telling others their going to hell....if you have seen that, then you probably have not been around true Christians!

 

[Born Again2004]

Go back and read that post again.
You'll notice I did not say that *I* was Christo-Pagan.
Did you even read the link I shared therein? I'll bet not.
Understanding those with whom one engages is far
preferable to merely toying with one's own self-
constructed straw-men. I strongly suggest it.

If there's a term for something, it's being done, so to say it
can't be done is to simply argue with reality.

And as I said before, Christo-Paganism is another
topic, meaning not one we necessarily have to get
into in this thread as it would be off-topic. Did you
miss that part too?


-

Sure, So far, I miss a lot of things concerning you...why don't you answer the question are you: Christian, Pagan or Christo-Pagan. You have listed yourself (for scrutiny) as a Pagan but you chastise me for calling you Pagan...well, please clear this up....which are you?

 

[Fizzywig]

Well, in my experience, I have never seen such an action. Now any true Christian would know that there is the existence of Hell and a place for unbelievers...that's what the Bible teaches and, if truthful, a Christian will acknowledge the existence of hell....if a non-believer takes acceptation to that, so be it!...but don't perpetrate that a Christian is evil and enjoys telling others their going to hell....if you have seen that, then you probably have not been around true Christians!

To be honest Born Again2004, I find your presumptions astonishing, particularly when St Paul speaks of those who "commend themselves". I understand how you might see this according to your own lights, but I assure you that your continued use of the words "true Christians" (obviously including yourself in your judgement) , and that any such would acknowledge hell "if truthful", (thus implying that any Christian who disagrees with you is a liar) does your own particular Faith no favours..........I assume you are yet another who would insist that they themselves do not "interpret" the Biblical text at all, but merely tell us exactly what God tells us with no "middle man" (or woman) involved.

But as you say, "so be it". Get on with it.