Paul Yohannan
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The Bible clearly states that the Earth is round.
Just for reference purposes, where?
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The Bible clearly states that the Earth is round.
As i type this it is 4:45 pm or 16:45 here in England and it is pitch black. In America where you are the time is different.
Why? Because the earth is round and it moves.
I beg to differ. The Bible says Hell exists and I believe that it does, but in another universe, another dispensation (Ephesians 3:2). The KJV Bible may support this position.
If I wanted to know how to change the battery in my car key, would I look up the Bible, or search for a You Tube Video?
If I was planning on taking a trip, would I consult a map or the Bible to find the best route?
And I am not saying don't pray, and I am not saying that physicality is the only reality - far from it.
What I am saying is that it is unreasonable to think that the purpose of the Bible is to teach you astrophysics, geography, cosmology. The Bible is our primary record of the revelation of God in Human History. It is about the author of creation rather than the order of creation. Don't send your children to school thinking that the Bible is the only textbook they need to pass exams, and don't think that because the Bible doesn't answer these questions that the Bible does not have much for us.
The faith of the Church is about hope, about a new tomorrow, about a coming kingdom, it is about a path of trust in God, inner strength, truth, and love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.
In my view on this blue planet, the tiny dot in the expanding universe, the round earth, hell is where there is no hope, no new tomorrow, no coming kingdom, no path of truth in God, no inner strength, no truth, no love, no joy, no peace, no patience, no kindness, no goodness, no faithfulness, no gentleness, and no self control.
You can find hell wherever you happen to be in a round earth, or you can reach out to the one who is always reaching out to us, as depicted so poignantly by Michelangelo in the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, or so powerfully in the Statue of Christ the Redeemer overlooking Rio De Janeiro, or so encompassingly in the arms of Jesus stretch out upon the Cross, and in the Spirit of God moving nearer to us that the breath we take.
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:Just for reference purposes, where?
LOL! I don't know, just pointing out something interesting. There have been requests for Christian advice, then they never show up again, aren't they interested in the answer? I don't know why they don't, maybe they got the answer, or don't like the answer.
Oh, You did show up again. Good for you. Some of these posts, the op never shows up again, just leaves the rest to agree or disagree amongst themselves.
Now, how come I have gone up in several airplanes and have seen the curvature of the earth, but you haven't? All anybody has to do is go to the edge, take a picture and prove it. Why in all these 1000's of years, has no one seen the edge?? There are no eye witness accounts of I, there are no drawing from an eye witness account, only the surmising's of some individuals. Photography has been around a long time now, and videos. Well, we have tons of photos and videos of a sphere, and you have not one picture or video of a flat earth--why? This dome that covers the earth, as it nears the edge, the height of the dome gets closer and closer to the earth, You don't even have to go very far up to get a picture of this dome. Or are you a flat earther that doesn't believe in the dome over head?
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Isaiah 40:22 KJV
I have refuted this totally false information many times here at CF and some in response to you in other threads. Here is my response once again.In the Bible we find, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus. All three of these are translated hell in the KJV. They are all locations. The English concept of Hell is a place somewhere in the earth where the wicked are tormented for eternity. We find no such place spoken of in the Scriptures. Hades, is the grave. Gehenna is the valley of the son of Hinnom, and Tartarus is a place that is reserved for angels. We don't find the English concept of Hell in the Scriptures.
Yes and it was Christopher Columbus who fought the flat earthers of his time.It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Isaiah 40:22 KJV
I have refuted this totally false information many times here at CF and some in response to you in other threads. Here is my response once again.
Among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom.
Jewish Encyclopedia, GehennaWhen Jesus taught about,
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a); [Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT the bias of Christian translators.]
n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link:Jewish Encyclopedia Online
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Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [follower of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written [Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link:Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
• “ Then shall he say … Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned the existing Jewish view of eternal hell. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a fate worse than death or nonexistence. A fate worse than death is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:Jesus used the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as death, it would have meant something worse to them.
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
…..Jesus knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, when Jesus taught about man’s eternal fate, such as eternal punishment, He would have corrected them. Jesus did not correct them, thus their teaching on hell must have been correct.
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The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.Note there is no “archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, [that Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump] in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources” If Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump there should be broken pottery, tools, utensils, bones, etc. but there is no such evidence.
Source, Bibliotheca Sacra / July–September 1992
Scharen: Gehenna in the Synoptics Pt. 1
“Gehenna is presented as diametrically opposed to ‘life’: it is better to enter life than to go to Gehenna. . .It is common practice, both in scholarly and less technical works, to associate the description of Gehenna with the supposedly contemporary garbage dump in the valley of Hinnom. This association often leads scholars to emphasize the destructive aspects of the judgment here depicted: fire burns until the object is completely consumed. Two particular problems may be noted in connection with this approach. First, there is no convincing evidence in the primary sources for the existence of a fiery rubbish dump in this location (in any case, a thorough investigation would be appreciated). Secondly, the significant background to this passage more probably lies in Jesus’ allusion to Isaiah 66:24.”
(“The Duration of Divine Judgment in the New Testament” in
The Reader Must Understand edited by K. Brower and M. W. Ellion, p. 223, emphasis mine)
G. R. Beasley-Murray in Jesus and the Kingdom of God:
“Ge-Hinnom (Aramaic Ge-hinnam, hence the Greek Geenna), ‘The Valley of Hinnom,’ lay south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls. The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the city’s rubbish was burned in this valley, has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimchi (sic) made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source.” (p. 376n.92)
Link:
http://www.btdf.org/forums/topic/20113-the-burning-garbage-dump-of-gehenna-is-a-myth/
Read your post which I quoted, then my response. For example, you claimed that Gehenna was a burning garbage dump. There is no historical or archaeological evidence for this. That piece of false information was started by a Jewish scholar about 1200 AD.What have you refuted?
Read your post which I quoted, then my response. For example, you claimed that Gehenna was a burning garbage dump. There is no historical or archaeological evidence for this. That piece of false information was started by a Jewish scholar about 1200 AD.
My mistake, it was someone else. But I did show that, to the Jews, Gehenna was more than just the valley of Hinnom which is what gae hinnom means. And while you can't find "hell," in the Bible, before and during the time of Jesus, the Jews certainly found "hell" in the Bible and as I said in my post they called it both Sheol and Gehinnom.Maybe you should read my post. I didn't say anything at all about a garbage dump. I said Gehenna was the valley of the son of Hinnom.
My mistake, it was someone else. But I did show that, to the Jews, Gehenna was more than just the valley of Hinnom which is what gae hinnom means. And while you can't find "hell," in the Bible, before and during the time of Jesus, the Jews certainly found "hell" in the Bible and as I said in my post they called it both Sheol and Gehinnom.
The earth is only 6,000 km deep and there is absolutely no way for hell to exist in that space. It would need to be much bigger.
So the concept of hell suddenly disappeared from the Bible when it was translated into English? According to you how did "hell" get into the Bible? My view is that the Jews before and at the time of Jesus believed in a place of unending fiery punishment, they called it both Sheol and Gehinnom. Jesus and His first disciples were Jews living in Israel. When Jesus taught "eternal punishment,""hades where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die" etc. it did not refute the Jewish belief.I didn't say anything about the Jews. I said the English concept of Hell is not found in the Bible.
How about the argument that pilots don't detect the horizon dipping as it should dip if earth were round?"Hell", if it exists, is not a location in our physical universe but rather a state of being. I fully agree that a flat earth cosmology is entirely biblical but all evidence including the laws of nature themselves indicate that is not the case.
Doesn't pear-shaped require it to be narrower at the top [north pole] and wider at the bottom [south pole]?The actual shape is an oblate spheroid. A fancy way of saying that it is very slightly pear shaped.
All 7 billion inhabitants of this Earth could be fit (with houses and land) in Australia with room to spare.
You are also making the poor assumption that there is some kind of standardized "size" for a damned soul that needs to be accounted for.