Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[geiroffenberg]

That's some real creepy stuff.

lol!
I swear , its "synchronicity", man. Its a thing and its real and its spiritual! God puts something in our mind, and weird things happens around us. I had so many experinces with this the last few years, i written about it several other places.

 

[Douggg]

I would like someone to please show me where a rapture is mentioned in Revelation since the only thing I see mentioned in Revelation are resurrections.

Where does it say there's a rapture if the 2nd advent, as described in the Olivet discourse, is the 2nd resurrection, where that generation, and those standing there at the time of the Olivet discourse, taste death after witnessing Christ coming into his kingdom, which is the New Yah-ru-Shalem?

If the Olivet discourse advent which is the gathering of the elect and the so-called 2nd return of Christ is the 2nd resurrection, when Christ supposedly returns to earth, how does anyone justify a rapture at the "1st resurrection" if there's no advent, no return of Christ to earth until the 2nd resurrection?

Food for thought

Update: I was thinking the rapture involved the return of Christ, which it doesn't, but I do think the only verse that supports a rapture is taken out of context, that the reference to one being taken and another one left is used in the same context as the OT besieging of the old city, in the context of two being in the field and one being taken/slain and the other escaping with his life, since the context of the NT verse is during the NT siege.

This is real simple, but this is something that I am sure that you have not considered it yet. I will explain....

Take a look at the first three chapters of Revelation. Those are messages to the churches. I am sure that you will agree.

Now look at Revelation 1:10-11. John was in the spirit, he heard a voice as of a trumpet. In verse 11, we know that it was Jesus speaking....


10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.



.....so Jesus delivers the message to the church, one of which is the church of Philadelphia, - you know the rest.

Now after Jesus has spoken to the churches, in Revelation 4:1-2, we read, John, in similitude to what it says in 3:10 above - except for the "come up hither" in 4:1. Compare 3:10 to 4:1. So in 4:1, Jesus is saying "come up hither".

The "come up hither" represents the rapture. There is no actual trumpet instrument being blown, just as there is no actual trumpet instrument being blown in 1thessalonians4:16. So we can disregard any last trumpet arguments being made for the rapture.


4.1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.



So now John is in heaven, and the 7 years 70th week is about to begin in the visions shown to him. The 7 years or the second half of the 7 years could be the headings on chapters 6-16, depending on the chapter. I made another post outlining those. But for now, we just need to recognize that John has been called up "come up hither" , followed by being shown the seven years 70th week or the second half of the 70th week, depending of the chapter, 6-16.

So, it doesn't necessarily mean a pre-seventieth week rapture, but at least before the second half of the seventieth week.

So with that overview, comparing verse 1:10 - then the message to the churches (a two thousand year timeframe in retrospect) - then John called up "come up hither" (the rapture) in 4:1 - then the 70th week and second half of the 70th week are shown..... the rapture is there..... and the things shortly to come pass, means that those things were about to be shown to John shortly.... by Jesus. Hopefully, this clears up a lot.

 

[keras]

We? ..... maybe you, but not we
Have a ball in the tribulation

This shows you up for your supercilious and arrogant attitude.
For a Christian happy to consign those who believe differently, to the difficult times ahead, while they expect to be sitting in heaven, is about sufficient to disqualify you from any reward.
I do not expect to 'have a ball', as we face the troubled times ahead, but for all who keep true to their faith in God and trust Him, great rewards are promised.
Our destiny is not and never has been in heaven, we have work to do here and doing it is our duty and our fulfilment.

 

[keras]

Sorry, double post.

 

[LastSeven]

Well said except the book of life isn't opened until the 2nd resurrection.

Yes, and the second resurrection occurs at his coming.

 

[precepts]

This is real simple, but this is something that I am sure that you have not considered it yet. I will explain....

Take a look at the first three chapters of Revelation. Those are messages to the churches. I am sure that you will agree.

Now look at Revelation 1:10-11. John was in the spirit, he heard a voice as of a trumpet. In verse 11, we know that it was Jesus speaking....


10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.



.....so Jesus delivers the message to the church, one of which is the church of Philadelphia, - you know the rest.

Now after Jesus has spoken to the churches, in Revelation 4:1-2, we read, John, in similitude to what it says in 3:10 above - except for the "come up hither" in 4:1. Compare 3:10 to 4:1. So in 4:1, Jesus is saying "come up hither".

You need to wake up. You can't be guessing and putting things together that don't go together. God telling John to "come up hither" has nothing to do with a rapture! Get real, man.

The "come up hither" represents the rapture.

You need help. God telling John to "come up hither" has nothing to do with the rapture. There's no logical connection other than God telling John to "come up hither." You would be laughed out of court for such a faulty conclusion.

There is no actual trumpet instrument being blown, just as there is no actual trumpet instrument being blown in 1thessalonians4:16. So we can disregard any last trumpet arguments being made for the rapture.

I looked up the verses on one being taken and another one left and both books, Matthew and Luke, carbon copies of each other, both equate this taken away with Christ return, and Christ returns only at the 2nd resurrection when "those standing there" and "that generation" tastes death, the real death, the lake of fire death which occurs only at the 2nd resurrection. Your myth has been debunked.

 

[precepts]

lol!
I swear , its "synchronicity", man. Its a thing and its real and its spiritual! God puts something in our mind, and weird things happens around us. I had so many experinces with this the last few years, i written about it several other places.

Not as weird as me being stalked by the Feds for exposing the truth.

 

[precepts]

• My comment

Those seen in heaven in Revelation 7:9-17 are the Lord's pre-tribulation ecclesia

These have come "away" from the tribulation .... the Greek "EK" can mean "away from" as "out of"

Even then when one is not "in" a condition, he is out of it

These same people are seen many times during the tribulation [Revelation 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:14; 20:4 [those already on thrones]]

The only resurrections that will take place at the end of the days of the tribulation are the martyrs who become believers during the period and the Lord's two prophets [Revelation 6:9-11; 11:7-12]

The gatherings of the mortal survivors after the tribulation are not resurrections

Israel [Matthew 24:29-31]

The nations of the Gentiles [Matthew 25:31-46]

Those found believing will enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom upon the earth .... those found in unbelief will be rejected

And Last 7 is correct about Revelation's structure .... the prose is layered and repeating ass the narrative moves forward

IF you do not get this truth you will never understand the Lord's prophetic word

You deceived me early. I looked up the verses on one being taken and another one being left behind, and the phrase is found only in Luke and Matthew, carbon copies of each other, almost word for word the entire books, and both books reference the taking away to be at the time of the return of Christ, meaning I was correct in my opening post when I said there is no rapture because Christ does not return until the 2nd resurrection, the 2nd resurrection being the fulfillment of those standing there, that generation tasting death, after witnessing Christ coming into His kingdom, the new Yah-ru-Shalem, because the lake of fire is the 2nd death, the death Christ was referring to when he said they wouldn't taste death until His return, the reason why everyone thought He would return in that generation.

The Rapture debunked!

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Satan is alive and working hard as he knows he has a short time.

To all you futurists, (last week of Daniels 70 week prophecy being at the end of time), you need to understand that your teaching is not Biblical. It is a counter reformation teaching of the RCC.

So lets look at the facts from history;
Futurism and Preterism are RCC teachings developed in the counter reformation. For those interested in the History of these two teachings; http://biblelight.net/antichrist.htm

So for those of you who believe in these RCC teachings you have to ask yourself the question, If I am a protestant why do I believe what the RCC teaches? The Reformation was a protest against the teachings of the RCC and a renewed clear understanding of the Bible.

Short list of Protestant reformers that taught the Papacy was the antichrist from http://www.the-bible-antichrist.com/what-did-reformers-believe.html Martin Luther (1483 - 1546)
Georg Nigrinus (1530 - 1602)
Flacius (1570)
Nicolaus Von Amsdorf (1483 - 1565)
John Calvin (1509 - 1564
John Knox (1505 - 1572)
Thomas Cranmer (1489 - 1556)
Roger Williams (1603 - 1683)
The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)
The Westminster Confession of Faith (1646)
John Wesley (1703 - 1791)
Charles Spurgeon (1834 - 1892)
Rev. J.A.Wylie (1808 - 1890)

However I understand that the TRUE word of GOD will fall on deaf ears at the end of time.
Revelation 14:9
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

4 Take ye heed every one of his neighbour, and trust ye not in any brother: for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbour will walk with slanders.
5 And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.
6 Thine habitation is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know me, saith the Lord.
Jeremiah 9:4-6 King James Version (KJV)

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 King James Version (KJV)

 

[Douggg]

You need to wake up. You can't be guessing and putting things together that don't go together. God telling John to "come up hither" has nothing to do with a rapture! Get real, man.

I am really surprised by your reaction. It is Jesus saying to John "come up hither" because the voice was as the sound of a trumpet - which from Revelation 1:10-11, for certainty is Jesus's voice.

You need help. God telling John to "come up hither" has nothing to do with the rapture. There's no logical connection other than God telling John to "come up hither." You would be laughed out of court for such a faulty conclusion.

Again, I am surprised by your reaction. John in 4:1-2 clearly represents Christians in the rapture. And, again, it is Jesus saying to John to come up hither.

I looked up the verses on one being taken and another one left and both books, Matthew and Luke, carbon copies of each other, both equate this taken away with Christ return, and Christ returns only at the 2nd resurrection when "those standing there" and "that generation" tastes death, the real death, the lake of fire death which occurs only at the 2nd resurrection. Your myth has been debunked.

????? you are not being clear. And what myth are you talking about being debunked according to you?

 

[Douggg]

I would like someone to please show me where a rapture is mentioned in Revelation since the only thing I see mentioned in Revelation are resurrections.

Where does it say there's a rapture if the 2nd advent, as described in the Olivet discourse [add verses reference], is the 2nd resurrection [add verses reference], where that generation [add verses reference], and those standing there at the time of the Olivet discourse, taste death after witnessing Christ coming into his kingdom [add verse reference], which is the New Yah-ru-Shalem?

If the Olivet discourse advent which is the gathering of the elect and the so-called 2nd return of Christ is the 2nd resurrection, when Christ supposedly returns to earth, how does anyone justify a rapture at the "1st resurrection" if there's no advent, no return of Christ to earth until the 2nd resurrection?

Food for thought

A falling away has definitely begun.

precepts, you need to go back and edit your post and add verse references. Explain what you mean by "2nd resurrection".

In your second paragraph of your opening post, you misunderstand that some would not taste death before seeing Jesus come into his Kingdom - it is not talking about the new Jerusalem. It is talking about some of the disciples seeing Jesus ascend into the cloud in Acts 1:9, on his way to heaven.... where in Daniel 7:13-14, Jesus is given a kingdom, the Kingdom of Heaven. Which at his return, at the Second Coming, is brought to earth, and is called the Kingdom of God.

Acts 1:
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Daniel 7:
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

 

[rockytopva]

I believe in the seven churches as ages...

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the circumcision, Peter.
Smyrna - Gentile Persecuted Church - Beginning with the Apostle to the uncircumcision, Paul.
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

Seven Churches - Christ Jesus walks in the midst of the seven church congregations
Seven Stars - All Christians are in the right hand of Christ Jesus (Revelation 2:1)
Seven Seals - The lambs book of life will be sealed with seven seals...

1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5

If this is not the Lambs Book of Life why all the ado? The earth will remain unhurt until the following takes place...

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. - Revelation 7

And after the 144,000 were sealed we have this scripture...

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. - Revelation 7

The rapture occurred in Revelation 7:9... After this we are ready for the plagues of the seven trumpets, seven vials, the overthrow of the Anti-Christ, and the destruction of this world.

 

[DingDing]

I would like someone to please show me where a rapture is mentioned in Revelation since the only thing I see mentioned in Revelation are resurrections.

...

If one is open to thinking, and comparing scripture with scripture, then I would suggest looking at the 2nd half of Rev. 7.

 

[LastSeven]

I'm beginning to thing it's speaking about the same situation from the old testament when Israel was besieged by Nebuchadnezzar, in the context of two being in the field and one being taken/slain and other escaping with his life.

Do you have a reference for this?

 

[LastSeven]

If one is open to thinking, and comparing scripture with scripture, then I would suggest looking at the 2nd half of Rev. 7.

You're talking about an inference, not an actual reference.

 

[precepts]

Do you have a reference for this?

That was yesterday's message, last night I did a BLB search and discovered the only reference to "one taken and one left behind" is in Matthew's and Luke's gospel. Both prove the rapture happens at the 2nd advent, hence my original argument was correct. There is no rapture because the 2nd advent is the 2nd resurrection, when some witnesses taste death in the lake of fire. And the 1st resurrection is exactly what it is, a resurrection of all the righteous dead from creation to the time of the 1st resurrection, all resurrected in heaven.

 

[LastSeven]

So there was no reference to one taken and one left regarding Nebuchadnezzar?

 

[precepts]

No, just slain by the sword in the field, and dying of starvation in the city.

 

[precepts]

If one is open to thinking, and comparing scripture with scripture, then I would suggest looking at the 2nd half of Rev. 7.

So where are the resurrected then?

 

[LastSeven]

The Rapture debunked!

The rapture is also debunked by Acts 3:21. If Jesus stays in heaven until the new heaven and new earth, how can he possibly come to get us before then?