Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

Bible Highlighter · Dec 3, 2016

Revelation 3:10 says,
“Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.”

For me, this hour of trial would include the the mark of the beast. Also, to keep us from the hour of trial that is going to test the whole world means a removal from that trial and not just supernatural protection.

Revelation 2:22 says,

"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."

For me: The Great Tribulation starts at the 4th seal. 1/4th of the Eart is killed by the enforcement of the mark of the beast.

Also, how can a church miss out on being cast into the Great Tribulation if they repent? Surely it is the Rapture that will prevent them from being cast into the Great Tribulation and or the "hour of trial" that will come upon the whole world.

...

LastSeven · Dec 3, 2016

Revealing Times said:
Sad people can't understand the scriptures before them. Let go of YOUR opinions and allow God to feed you his truth. It is so clear there is a Rapture. It is clear that those under the Alter at the 5th Seal are Christians beheaded/murdered by the Anti-Christ when he demands worship by all, destroys all Religions, including Islam, which is what is meant by the HARLOT being destroyed in Rev. 17:16. He comes after Israel who flees to the Wilderness, comes after Christians or the Remnant of the SEED (Jesus being the Seed, the Christians that are left being the Remnant). And they want vengeance of THOSE PEOPLE ON EARTH...as in present tense when they say this.

All 6 Seals are the Wrath of the Lamb, he OPENS EVER SEAL, Allows it to come Forth !! All 6 Trumpets are the Wrath of the Holy Spirit/Saints/Two Witnesses, as it says in scriptures:

Rev 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. 5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Thus this is the Holy Spirits Wrath, via the Prayers of the Saints via the Two Witnesses who pray down plagues upon the world/Babylon.

Then we have the Wrath of God of Course which is the Vials being poured out on the world/Babylon.

Funny how pre-tribbers continuously say "it's so obvious!!" yet have no clear scripture, only inferences and assumptions.

keras · Dec 3, 2016

Jason0047 said:
For me, this hour of trial would include the the mark of the beast. Also, to keep us from the hour of trial that is going to test the whole world means a removal from that trial and not just supernatural protection.

The scripture says the test will come upon the whole world.
Paralleled by Luke 21:35...that Day will come upon everyone, the whole world over.
Normal understanding of those statements means no one is excluded from what God intends to do. If a large part of the population are to be removed before this event, then the prophesies would say: the test will come upon the unbelievers, or the Lord's enemies. But no, and this is perfectly in accordance with many other verses saying how we Christians must stand firm and endure this great testing of our faith.

Jason0047 said:
Also, how can a church miss out on being cast into the Great Tribulation if they repent? Surely it is the Rapture that will prevent them from being cast into the Great Tribulation and or the "hour of trial" that will come upon the whole world.

Wrong, Jason. It is purely wishful thinking to believe God is going to take any living person to heaven.
We are told that the group of Christians who have kept their faith, Daniel 11:32b, will be taken to a place of safety on earth for the 1260 day duration of the GT. Revelation 12:14

precepts · Dec 3, 2016

Jezmeyah said:
If addressing the issue is so import to you, then by all means, address the issue.
I enjoy the truth, and I do enjoy to be like holy water to a vampire. Thank you for the compliment.

Would you tell me the reason why I can't answer that?

I already did.

You have an answer for everything else but my question.

precepts · Dec 3, 2016

Revealing Times said:
The Revelation is mostly about things that happen after the Rapture has occurred, so why are you looking for it in Revelation ?

Jesus talks about the Church some, then John is carried into the Future when he is told to COME UP HERE..........

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Jesus Shouts as if its a Trump....we go to meet him in the Air, and we are in the SPIRIT (Cor. 15) because our corrupt bodies can not go to heaven so we DIE and go to meet Jesus in the Spirit.

That is what happened to John, it signifies the Rapture, you just miss it.

What was the reason why I asked for someone to show where a rapture occurs in Revelation?

precepts · Dec 3, 2016

Douggg said:
I am just asking you to explain what you wrote. You said "2nd resurrection". What do you mean by 2nd resurrection? What bible verse(s) are you referring to?

Rev 20, Douggg. Now post all the verses you know of relating to the 2nd resurrection.

precepts · Dec 3, 2016

Straightshot said:
The preterist, full or partial, is forced to make metaphorical allegory out of the literal visions of the prophets

Ask one to render Zechariah 14 and see what you get .... all of this passage is still pending as we speak .... 100%

When and were is half of Israel suppose to go into captivity, Straightshot? LOL! And it's ridiculous to think that you're casting stones when your stumbling block is the definition of the word "remnant," the fact that totally blows away the idea of there being a national Israel to be carried away in the future!

precepts · Dec 3, 2016

Major1 said:
With all due respect my friend, you do not use any Bible passages to support your opinions.

Such as?

Major1 said:
Your comments seem to me to be very deceptive and personal as well are argumentative.

That is your responses. I asked you a specific question and you cannot answer because you are dancing around the truth! You cannot face the fact, so it is you who is being deceptive.

Major1 said:
Do you actually have any Bible verses to post that we could debate which say that
THERE IS NO SUCH THING COMING CALLED THE RAPTURE????

i have my premise in the opening post as to why there's no rapture, the fact that you can't even manage to repeat.

Major1 said:
So far you have only given us "what YOU think" which is not truth at all.

Talk is cheap! You will say anything to avoid the point of the thread.

Revealing Times · Dec 3, 2016

LastSeven said:
Funny how pre-tribbers continuously say "it's so obvious!!" yet have no clear scripture, only inferences and assumptions.

As Jesus said, seeing they see not and hearing they hear not. I am not surprised when people can't see what info I pass out.

precepts · Dec 3, 2016

miamited said:
Hi precepts,

What is my what? My agenda? Just to answer your question that you put up in the OP. There I answered that question and the question you put up in the OP. What is up with you? Is this your idea of a discussion? Someone asks you a question in a post and you, rather than just answering the question, come back asking the same question of the poster. What in the world do you mean by claiming that I can't face the truth? I've answered all your questions. I've questioned you about some apparently hidden agenda that you have, based on your responses to me, and all you can do is tell me that I can't face the truth. Really?

You may be right. I may not be naive. Or at least as naive as such a thing can be in its strongest form, but...

From the responses I've seen from you so far, it's you that seems to have some inability to face the truth. You can't even answer simple questions put to you and that may well be because you don't have any answers. It may well be that since you don't have such answers you attempt to parry and sidestep to try to ignore answering and detract from the questions by merely playing this simple word game with those asking the questions.

Look! The answer to your OP is that the idea of what we call the 'rapture' is written about for us to understand in the 14th chapter of the Revelation. Now, do with that what you will, but if your continued responses are just going to be this little game you're playing, please refrain from responding to any of my posts. If, on the other hand, you'd like to seriously discuss and investigate myj answer to your OP, then feel free to write back a response to me.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

Pure hot air, and, no, you didn't answer my question. It's like holy water to a vampire. What is the reason I said in the opening post that there's no rapture?

Bible Highlighter · Dec 3, 2016

keras said:
The scripture says the test will come upon the whole world.
Paralleled by Luke 21:35...that Day will come upon everyone, the whole world over.
Normal understanding of those statements means no one is excluded from what God intends to do. If a large part of the population are to be removed before this event, then the prophesies would say: the test will come upon the unbelievers, or the Lord's enemies. But no, and this is perfectly in accordance with many other verses saying how we Christians must stand firm and endure this great testing of our faith.

Wrong, Jason. It is purely wishful thinking to believe God is going to take any living person to heaven.
We are told that the group of Christians who have kept their faith, Daniel 11:32b, will be taken to a place of safety on earth for the 1260 day duration of the GT. Revelation 12:14

250 reasons say you are wrong.

http://www.jesusisthecomingking.com/2011/03/250-reasons-for-pre-trib-rapture.html?m=1

...

miamited · Dec 3, 2016

Hi precepts,

Well, it seems to boil down to this:

precepts said:
a rapture at the "1st resurrection" if there's no advent, no return of Christ to earth until the 2nd resurrection?

But, as far as I'm concerned, you're wrong. Read Revelation 14. The one who looks like the son of man is the same son of man that Jesus referred to. He is the one coming to harvest the earth before the second creature comes to gather those that remain. This is before the second resurrection that doesn't come until after the thousand year reign of Christ with those that he took to be with him at the harvest. It's all there. Just read.

Bad Scriptural discernment just leads to bad understanding. It's all laid out just as I've explained in Revelation 14 with the harvest and then the following chapters which discuss what will be happening after that harvest.

God bless you
In Christ, Ted

keras · Dec 3, 2016

Jason0047 said:
250 reasons say you are wrong.

Yes, some very clever and wise people have written convincing articles is their attempts to prove the rapture theory.
What did the Jesus and the prophets say about the 'wise':
Matthew 11:25 Father, You hide these things from the wise and reveal them to the uneducated.
1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise?...God has made foolish the wisdom of this world.
1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourself....for the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. The thoughts of the wise are vain.
Isaiah 42:18-20...Who is so blind as My servants...
Ezekiel 33:30-33...the people hear the Words of the Lord, but they perceive them not.
Jeremiah 6:10 To whom shall I give warning? The people are incapable of understanding and treat the Word as a reproach.
Isaiah 29:9-12 If you confuse yourself, [with false teachings] you will remain ignorant....the Word will be as a sealed Book to you.

I have seen those 250 so called reasons. They are a litany of guesswork, supposition, conjecture and purely fanciful notions.
The total failure to provide even one proof text that God will take living people to heaven, simply means that the rapture is wrong.
The prophets do tell us what God has planned and it will be amazing, the fulfilment of our purpose as Christians and our destiny as the Lord will say: You are My people and we will respond: You are our God.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 3, 2016

keras said:
Yes, some very clever and wise people have written convincing articles is their attempts to prove the rapture theory.
What did the Jesus and the prophets say about the 'wise':
Matthew 11:25 Father, You hide these things from the wise and reveal them to the uneducated.
1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise?...God has made foolish the wisdom of this world.
1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourself....for the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. The thoughts of the wise are vain.
Isaiah 42:18-20...Who is so blind as My servants...
Ezekiel 33:30-33...the people hear the Words of the Lord, but they perceive them not.
Jeremiah 6:10 To whom shall I give warning? The people are incapable of understanding and treat the Word as a reproach.
Isaiah 29:9-12 If you confuse yourself, [with false teachings] you will remain ignorant....the Word will be as a sealed Book to you.

I have seen those 250 so called reasons. They are a litany of guesswork, supposition, conjecture and purely fanciful notions.
The total failure to provide even one proof text that God will take living people to heaven, simply means that the rapture is wrong.
The prophets do tell us what God has planned and it will be amazing, the fulfilment of our purpose as Christians and our destiny as the Lord will say: You are My people and we will respond: You are our God.

People have read the Bible multiple times over and yet they don't believe it. The same holds true for self professing Christians on a wide variety of topics in the Bible. People do not believe certain things in the Bible because they find them uncomfortable or not possible.

...

Bring Division · Dec 3, 2016

keras said:
The scripture says the test will come upon the whole world.
Paralleled by Luke 21:35...that Day will come upon everyone, the whole world over.
Normal understanding of those statements means no one is excluded from what God intends to do. If a large part of the population are to be removed before this event, then the prophesies would say: the test will come upon the unbelievers, or the Lord's enemies. But no, and this is perfectly in accordance with many other verses saying how we Christians must stand firm and endure this great testing of our faith.

Wrong, Jason. It is purely wishful thinking to believe God is going to take any living person to heaven.
We are told that the group of Christians who have kept their faith, Daniel 11:32b, will be taken to a place of safety on earth for the 1260 day duration of the GT. Revelation 12:14

Interesting. There are at least two biblical instances of people being taken to Heaven without dying. Enoch and Elijah. As for the place of safety, that is reserved for the remnant of Israel which will be preserved through the tribulation, and pictured in the book of Revelation as the man-child. The church, on the other hand, is pictured as the bride of Christ. So tell me, can the bride of Christ be a man-child?

Bring Division · Dec 3, 2016

For the OP, and any others interested. I've just completed a blog post on the rapture. I'd love to hear your thoughts and comments on it, whether you agree with them or not. If you are interested, or willing to give me some feedback, the post can be found here: http://bringdivision.com/what-is-the-rapture-of-the-church I'd love to hear from you. Many thanks

Les

precepts · Dec 4, 2016

miamited said:
Hi precepts,

Well, it seems to boil down to this:

But, as far as I'm concerned, you're wrong.

You posted everything but the proof.

What is the proof I provided for there not being a rapture? And why did you leave it out?

miamited said:
Read Revelation 14. The one who looks like the son of man is the same son of man that Jesus referred to. He is the one coming to harvest the earth before the second creature comes to gather those that remain. This is before the second resurrection that doesn't come until after the thousand year reign of Christ with those that he took to be with him at the harvest. It's all there. Just read.

Nonsense, and if you had posted the proof for why i said there's no rapture, you would know your error.

There's no harvest before the 2nd resurrections for two reason. The first one is my proof in the opening post and the second is the fact that both harvest reaps blood, meaning each harvest cast into the winepress is a lake of fire judgement, a dividing of the good from the bad. The 1st resurrection isn't a dividing, meaning no blood reaching the horse's bridle.

More proof these harvest happened after the 1st resurrection is the fact Babylon is fallen in verse 8, which the 1st resurrected witnessed, which is the marriage super of the Lamb. It is only after this event that in verses 14 -20 that the Son of Man appears on a cloud to reap the 1st harvest.

They are the harvest of the good and the bad, the "Great White Throne" judgement, which is the 2nd resurrection, and the "Wheat and Tares" resurrection/harvest rapture of this physical earth, which is the 3rd and final resurrection.

miamited said:
Bad Scriptural discernment just leads to bad understanding. It's all laid out just as I've explained in Revelation 14 with the harvest and then the following chapters which discuss what will be happening after that harvest.

God bless you
In Christ, Ted

Lets see if you can discern what I just explained.

precepts · Dec 4, 2016

Bring Division said:
For the OP, and any others interested. I've just completed a blog post on the rapture. I'd love to hear your thoughts and comments on it, whether you agree with them or not. If you are interested, or willing to give me some feedback, the post can be found here: http://bringdivision.com/what-is-the-rapture-of-the-church I'd love to hear from you. Many thanks

Les

Lets start with the point I made in the opening post first since you're on my thread. What is the reason why I say there's no rapture, the proof I provided?

keras · Dec 4, 2016

Jason0047 said:
People have read the Bible multiple times over and yet they don't believe it. The same holds true for self professing Christians on a wide variety of topics in the Bible. People do not believe certain things in the Bible because they find them uncomfortable or not possible.

I have read the Bible right through many times and I believe what it says. There is nothing uncomfortable or impossible there at all. The metaphors and allegories are mostly explained or easily understood.
The problem arises when people add their own twist to what is actually written.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 is a classic example. Rapture believers say this scripture is proof of the Church being taken to heaven. That heaven is not mentioned and Jesus has come down to the earth, has no effect on their belief.
But as I have repeatedly posted and you can't see it, is what God really does plan for His people:
Isaiah 49:8 These are the Words of the Lord: In the time of My favour, I answered you, on the Day of deliverance I came to your aid.
I have formed you and destined you to be a light for the peoples, restoring the holy Land and living in all of your inheritance.
Romans 9:23-26 We [Christians] receive God's mercy, chosen as we are from among Jews and gentiles.....in the very place where they, [the Jews of Jesus' time] were told: You are no children of Mine, there they, [Christians, receivers of God's mercy] will be called the children of the Living God.

Riberra · Dec 4, 2016

Major1 said:
Revelation 20:6,........
"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

The 1000 years begins with a resurrection of the RIGHTEOUS. This is the first resurrection.

You have probably missed the part saying that those who will be resurrected in the First Resurrection are those who will be beheaded by the Beast during the 42 months reign of the Beast....
Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the SOULS of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The Christians -still- alive and remain** UNTO the Coming of Jesus will be changed into immortality along with those who have been beheaded and will also reign on the Earth with Jesus during the millennium.[**Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection]

All the others good or bad will be resurrected at the Great White Throne Judgment Revelation 20:7-15

That is not exactly what you expected.

Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

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