Where gravity and forces come from..!

[dad]

His argument is that the fundamental forces and time were different in as little as a few thousand years ago. All that to simply interpret reality to fit the predetermined conclusion he's drawn from the bible. He's also failed to show any evidence whatsoever. Big surprise, eh?

If anyone knew what they they talking about, disposing of such a notion should be easy. Funny you can't do it. Must be something to it.

 

[dad]

Of course.


Specific reason. Like in

Or "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light." (Genesis 1:3)

Right, what about it? This is a surprise?

What God says happens. For example if God says "Let there be bread, cake, milk." He will get bread, cake and milk and not bread and milk only or bread, cake, milk and apple instead. Do you agree?

Yes. Better than a star trek simulator, or was it a replicator?

Probably. You must first agree on the question above, then will talk. Also I didn't get "yes" for each of my questions as I wanted. If you think the questions are not clear enough I'll try to explain them. What do you not understand? "Gaps" means any gaps, time gaps, knowledge gaps i.e. if God did something relevant to us between the actions described in Genesis 1, etc.

No gaps that don't fit in a week.

 

[Delphiki]

The only direct evidence available to man. The ancient records including God's word.

So the bible and other ancient records contain the evidence for these altered forces? I wasn't aware there was any mention of gravity or elecromagnetic force in the bible. Interesting for a book that was written well before the scientific method itself, let alone these forces being discovered beyond their mere effects.

So going back to the OP, where did God create gravity in the bible?

 

[Lillen]

Eat air for one week without burping, and you will be able to walk on water.... Were is your fatih you of little faith?

 

[Split Rock]

Not sure, what is that?

I guess the answer is, "no." Not surprising. Carry on with your excellent demonstration of the worthlessness of creationism.

 

[dad]

So the bible and other ancient records contain the evidence for these altered forces?

Not altered forces, different ones. What got altered was not apparently what we have today, we are the results.

I wasn't aware there was any mention of gravity or elecromagnetic force in the bible.

"Electromagnetism is responsible for practically all the phenomena encountered in daily life, with the exception of gravity. Ordinary matter takes its form as a result of intermolecular forces between individual molecules in matter. Electromagnetism is also the force which holds electrons and protons together inside atoms, which are the building blocks of molecules. This governs the processes involved in chemistry, which arise from interactions between the electrons orbiting atoms."

wiki


So, if we look even at creation week, we see that a lot of things happened that involved the interactions of forces and atoms. We can take this phenomena, and observe the results. In many areas, from plant rate growth, to thermodynamics, these results are different from what a similar experiment would yield in this state. No great heat was produced to kill life, for example, in the planetary waters and land separation.

Interesting for a book that was written well before the scientific method itself, let alone these forces being discovered beyond their mere effects.

I agree. Darn interesting.

So going back to the OP, where did God create gravity in the bible?

Well, I don't see it in creation week, do you? So, whatever forces were at work that governed the physical earth may have included more than gravity. But whatever forces man observes in place, are ordained by God. Whether here, or in the far universe.


Isa 45:12 -"It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands And I ordained all their host.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

The God particle indeed!

 

[dad]

Eat air for one week without burping, and you will be able to walk on water.... Were is your fatih you of little faith?

Peter did better than that. Man shall not live by shopping at Ikea alone.

 

[AV1611VET]

Eat air for one week without burping, and you will be able to walk on water.... Were is your fatih you of little faith?

This is an interesting point you make here.

Back when I studied Oceanography, I learned that some brilliant scientists got together to solve the problem of mankind going to great depths and getting nitrogen narcosis.

They had two subjects breathe pure oxygen for a period of two weeks, then go down to great depths and come back up.

The test was considered a success.

Later, both men died of leukemia.

 

[Split Rock]

This is an interesting point you make here.

Back when I studied Oceanography, I learned that some brilliant scientists got together to solve the problem of mankind going to great depths and getting nitrogen narcosis.

They had two subjects breathe pure oxygen for a period of two weeks, then go down to great depths and come back up.

The test was considered a success.

Later, both men died of leukemia.

Too bad they weren't given any thalidomide, as it is a miracle drug. Or maybe, they could have been put on the Challanger. Then those evil scientist types would have killed them both quicker.

 

[Delphiki]

Not altered forces, different ones. What got altered was not apparently what we have today, we are the results.



"Electromagnetism is responsible for practically all the phenomena encountered in daily life, with the exception of gravity. Ordinary matter takes its form as a result of intermolecular forces between individual molecules in matter. Electromagnetism is also the force which holds electrons and protons together inside atoms, which are the building blocks of molecules. This governs the processes involved in chemistry, which arise from interactions between the electrons orbiting atoms."

wiki


So, if we look even at creation week, we see that a lot of things happened that involved the interactions of forces and atoms. We can take this phenomena, and observe the results. In many areas, from plant rate growth, to thermodynamics, these results are different from what a similar experiment would yield in this state. No great heat was produced to kill life, for example, in the planetary waters and land separation.


I agree. Darn interesting.




Well, I don't see it in creation week, do you? So, whatever forces were at work that governed the physical earth may have included more than gravity. But whatever forces man observes in place, are ordained by God. Whether here, or in the far universe.


Isa 45:12 -"It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands And I ordained all their host.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

The God particle indeed!

Well, that's all fine and dandy, now we just need the evidence that supports the bible. Where is it?

 

[AV1611VET]

Too bad they weren't given any thalidomide, as it is a miracle drug.

I'm sorry ... my bad.

I forgot to mention these men weren't pregnant.

Or maybe, they could have been put on the Challanger.

Wrong way, Corrigan.

Inner space -- not outer space.

Then those evil scientist types would have killed them both quicker.

I think they were just volunteers; so they can always get more.

You do know what NASA stands for, don't you?

 

[dad]

Well, that's all fine and dandy, now we just need the evidence that supports the bible. Where is it?

Well, no need for that at all. That is a done deal. Look into it. Better to deal with the thread at hand


Not altered forces, different ones. What got altered was not apparently what we have today, we are the results.



"Electromagnetism is responsible for practically all the phenomena encountered in daily life, with the exception of gravity. Ordinary matter takes its form as a result of intermolecular forces between individual molecules in matter. Electromagnetism is also the force which holds electrons and protons together inside atoms, which are the building blocks of molecules. This governs the processes involved in chemistry, which arise from interactions between the electrons orbiting atoms."

wiki


So, if we look even at creation week, we see that a lot of things happened that involved the interactions of forces and atoms. We can take this phenomena, and observe the results. In many areas, from plant rate growth, to thermodynamics, these results are different from what a similar experiment would yield in this state. No great heat was produced to kill life, for example, in the planetary waters and land separation.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Well, no need for that at all. That is a done deal. Look into it. Better to deal with the thread at hand

So, you can't produce anything -- how about pointing us in the general direction of someone who can?

 

[dad]

So, you can't produce anything -- how about pointing us in the general direction of someone who can?

May I introduce you to science? It produces a universe in a speck, life from sleight of hand, and all sorts of imaginary stuff.

 

[Delphiki]

May I introduce you to science? It produces a universe in a speck, life from sleight of hand, and all sorts of imaginary stuff.

....Says the guy getting all his knowledge from a bronze age book full of ludicrous stories that can't be proven.

 

[AV1611VET]

....Says the guy getting all his knowledge from a bronze age book full of ludicrous stories that can't be proven.

Why can't they be proven?

If those stories are wrong, then Christopher Columbus didn't sail anywhere, did he?

After all, if you applied your own standards of junk science to the voyages of the Niña, Pinta, and Santa Maria, they would fail too, would they not?

 

[dragannia]

So what you're saying is...God can be proven?

Go ahead. I'm waiting.

 

[Delphiki]

Why can't they be proven?

If those stories are wrong, then Christopher Columbus didn't sail anywhere, did he?

After all, if you applied your own standards of junk science to the voyages of the Niña, Pinta, and Santa Maria, they would fail too, would they not?

The glaring differences being:

1 - It's actually possible to sail boats across the ocean, and can be proven by doing it again today. (ie: it's testable) Talking snakes, arks with every known animal on it, global floods, dude dying, coming back to life, and floating away to heaven, are all things that can't be repeatable or tested.

2 - There are artifacts that exist that prove the ocean voyages and other events actually occurred. The bible merely makes mentions of locations where stuff "happened". I could say I killed a ninja in Madrid, but just because Madrid exists doesn't make it true.

3 - The story of the bible conveniently covers it's own tracks. "Oh, well, Jesus went up to heaven, is why we don't have a body." "Oh, well God's real, but you can't see, hear, smell, taste, or feel him, or give a location where he is in our universe or anything.. but he's real."

So, you're incorrect. I still "believe" that in 1492, Columbus sailed the oceans blue, using the same simple reasoning -- or as you call "junk science".

Columbus voyage has evidence.
Bible does not.

 

[Upisoft]

Yes. Better than a star trek simulator, or was it a replicator?

No gaps that don't fit in a week.

OK, then. Although I didn't think about time gaps when I was talking about gaps. Nor I say there is a gap.

So you can read Genesis 1 and see how God performs much better than a replicator. Even better, because the replicator in Star Trek uses already existing patterns, while God uses only the patterns formed in his mind that did not exist previously.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...(Genesis 1:26)

Here God talks for the first time not only to Himself. As there is nothing else living there except the animals, birds and fish, God have to talk to them. Unless there is a knowledge gap (in Genesis 1) and God is talking to an entity that have been not introduced. Maybe God is also talking to Earth, Sun, waters, land, etc.

Let see what happens.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.((Genesis 1:27))

Well, the God's replicator failed and created us only in His image... the likeness, well who needs likeness.

The first word translated as "image" can also be translated as "idol", "sculpture", "shadow", etc. things that preserve visual shape. The second word(likeness) can be translated as words that represent similarity in usually non-visual way, i.e. likeness, fashion, like as, similitude...

Despite that His conjuring abilities didn't work as expected:

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.(Genesis 1:31)

and He rested on the next day, as if everything is OK.

 

[Delphiki]

Rather, to reiterate. Very few things written in the bible MAY have evidence, but they are always small mundane details if anything. None of the fantastical events int he bible are ever proven.