Where gravity and forces come from..!

[dad]

God does.

Gravity works on us in just the right measure.

Just a tad weaker, and we wouldn't be able to breathe.

Just a tad stronger, and we wouldn't be able to breathe.

That's called the Anthropic Principle, and only God can tweak the universe to our specs.

I would have to agree that all the forces were set up by God, that govern this temporary state we live in. I also agree that He sets it all up for the eternal state.

 

[dad]

Except that it is evolution that has tweaked us to just the right specs. Most of the universe, almost all of it, except only some small fraction of the surface of a dust mote in an unimaginable immensity, would kill us dead in seconds.

And that is the anthropic principle.

So did evolution tweak the basic forces into the right specs to? What, evolutiondunit?

 

[dad]

Of course there are Christians who believe this, but that’s because they are credulous.

It has been admitted here in this thread that science does not know how the fundamental forces work, what they really are, how they got here etc!! Dare you disagree with that? If so, do show us the details!

Until then, which will be forever and a day past the twelfth of never, you really are in no position at all to judge what is credible. That is a classic argument from ignorance.

as with most Christian religious beliefs, they are simply not true.

Now now..tut tut.

If you think these beliefs are true then demonstrate that to us. Explain to us what sound evidence and sound reasoning you used to reach the conclusion that your God created gravity.

What beliefs? That science doesn't know the basics, and admits it? No one said science knows how God did anything. What we have pointed out here is that Christians believe a certain way. Now, since you and science do not know, obviously any ideas you may have are belief too.

 

[dad]

Alright "dad".

If it wasn't for science you wouldn't actually know there was a gravity, weak force, strong force, atoms, energy, etc.

Right, and when they cease to exist, I guess we wouldn't know what we were missing! And if something else exists far away, we wouldn't know that either. The issue is not that man has caught on to how God set it up in man's world.

In fact, just about everything you do know (that's actually real), you can thank science for because it surely didn't come from the bible.

All bow....

I'm sure, though, that when science has a better explanation for these forces, that you're comfortable with, you tell us that it was already in the bible.

Great, so you predict the future too.

Like how a flat earth in the bible was later interpreted to be a round earth and how "it always said it was round".

Still trying to flog that dead horse??

Well, here's my suggestion. If the bible is all knowing with regards to nature, then tell us what it says about gravity to save mankind the trouble.

The forces of this world are here while this world exists as it is. How long will that be? Just like you do not know a thing about where the fundamental forces come from, you do not know how long they will last.

 

[dad]

Amos 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

The Bible does not mention the word 'gravity', per se; but It mentions gravity's effect; the same effect Newton observed when he discovered this gravity.

Yes, gravity is something that was recorded as being at work, in the fields of the Lord. One day, we will rise up to be with Jesus, so I guess it is relative.

 

[PhoceanCity]

Amos 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

The Bible does not mention the word 'gravity', per se; but It mentions gravity's effect; the same effect Newton observed when he discovered this gravity.

So does the epic of Gilgamesh and a quantities of books predating the bible, but no mention of gravity before the 15th century. How strange...

At the snort of the Bull of Heaven a huge pit opened up,
and 100 Young Men of Uruk fell in.

The epic of Gilgamesh, tablet VI

 

[Split Rock]

Anyhow, yes, you have admitted science is a total failure, and utterly incompetent and unable to tell us where the basic forces we know in man's world come from, or why they have to be this way, etc. All you do is add 'they haven't managed it yet'!!!!! Hilarious.

.

LOL! Strange how all our technology is based on this "total failure, and utterly incompetent" science. Funny how the computer you are using and the internet that allows you to post your arrogant, blasphemous blatherings on this forum are both based on this "total failure, and utterly incompetent" science. So, tell us Great Prophet of God, what does Dadology do for us? Of what benefit are your incomprehensible ramblings about "states" and space-time? Surely your Divine insight into the physical world must be of some practical benefit to us all. Just the short list of Dadology accomplishments will be fine.

 

[dad]

LOL! Strange how all our technology is based on this "total failure, and utterly incompetent" science.

Strawman. The incompetence referred to was regarding knowing how the fundamental forces and laws came to be, and exactly what they are.

Shameful.

 

[Delphiki]

The forces of this world are here while this world exists as it is. How long will that be? Just like you do not know a thing about where the fundamental forces come from, you do not know how long they will last.

The beauty of making these absurd claims is that as long as it doesn't happen, you can keep saying "It hasn't happened yet." Where are you even getting the idea that gravity will disappear, anyway?

My cat is going to grow to massive proportions and rule the earth, and when it happens, you'll be sorry!

 

[Split Rock]

Strawman. The incompetence referred to was regarding knowing how the fundamental forces and laws came to be, and exactly what they are.

Shameful.

No Strawman dad. All science is interconnected and all science is based on the same methodology. You want to pick and choose what you will accept and what you won't, but you cannot do so and still maintain any continuity.

You ignored the rest of my post and the question I asked you. How very "Shameful." That's OK... I will ask you again. Of what practical benefit is your dadology? I tell you what... I will make it simple for you, dad. What is the size and average distance from earth of the star Betelgeuse (Alpha Orionis)? According to "total failure, and utterly incompetent" science, it is a red supergiant star that is 18-19 times as large as our sun and is 643 ± 146 light years away from us.
Betelgeuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tell us the real truth about this star, dad.

 

[3sigma]

It has been admitted here in this thread that science does not know how the fundamental forces work, what they really are, how they got here etc!! Dare you disagree with that? If so, do show us the details!

Until then, which will be forever and a day past the twelfth of never, you really are in no position at all to judge what is credible. That is a classic argument from ignorance.

I agree that currently no one knows for sure what causes gravity, because we don’t yet have enough sound evidence to come to a conclusion. What makes Christians credulous is that they believe they do know what causes gravity, despite a complete lack of sound evidence to support their belief that their God created it or even that their God exists.

as with most Christian religious beliefs, they are simply not true.

Now now..tut tut.

What’s your objection? It is clear that most Christian religious beliefs depend on one core belief: that your God is real. If your God isn’t real then it didn’t create anything, you are not made in its image, it doesn’t answer prayers, Jesus was not its son and it won’t grant you eternal life. The core belief that your God is real is not true so all of the beliefs that depend on it are not true as well. Again, if you think your belief that your God is real is correct then demonstrate that to us. Explain to us the sound evidence and sound reasoning you used to arrive at that conclusion.

What beliefs?
…
What we have pointed out here is that Christians believe a certain way.

Those beliefs, of course. As you said in your OP, Christians believe their God created gravity. I’m asking you to demonstrate that your belief is correct. Explain to us what sound evidence and sound reasoning you used to reach the conclusion that your God created gravity.

Now, since you and science do not know, obviously any ideas you may have are belief too.

No. If scientists don’t know something, but have ideas about it then those ideas are hypotheses that need to be tested and confirmed or refuted. They are not beliefs and certainly nothing like the unsubstantiated beliefs that religious believers hold. Most Christian religious beliefs are completely unsubstantiated and simply not true.

 

[Lillen]

Gravity as they explained in junior high, is caused by a body's mass as it exists in the timespace. The body somehow bend the time space alittle causing satellites of that body spin around it in circles. When timespace is bent the objects close to the body are attracted to the body's centrum.

To revoke natural laws we need another perception of them, don't we?

 

[dad]

The beauty of making these absurd claims is that as long as it doesn't happen, you can keep saying "It hasn't happened yet."

You are in no position to declare the bible absurd, when it speaks of the future state. You are in no position to declare forces you do not even understand will or will not last!

Where are you even getting the idea that gravity will disappear, anyway?

The physical only world is temporal, not eternal. The things that govern it will no longer be needed.

 

[dad]

No Strawman dad. All science is interconnected and all science is based on the same methodology. You want to pick and choose what you will accept and what you won't, but you cannot do so and still maintain any continuity.

Stop with the nonsense. Nothing is connected to ignorance. If you do not know what the basic forces are, then don't try to cover up, and hide behind something we do know as a package deal.

Of what practical benefit is your ....

The bible is of practical benefit to man. It inspires charity, and has provided a way of salvation for man. Not knowing what time is or gravity, or spin, or nuclear forces, etc is of no benefit to anyone.

I will make it simple for you, dad. What is the size and average distance from earth of the star Betelgeuse (Alpha Orionis)? According to "total failure, and utterly incompetent" science, it is a red supergiant star that is 18-19 times as large as our sun and is 643 ± 146 light years away from us.
Betelgeuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tell us the real truth about this star, dad.

That star is beyond your knowledge as well. If you can't even tell us what the forces in our own backyard are, why look for a red herring far away??



As for your star, it seems that if we lose your old ages, it makes more sense.

"The kinematics of Betelgeuse are not easily explained. The age of a Class M supergiant with an initial mass of 20M☉ is roughly 10 million years.[4][71] Given its current space motion, a projection back in time would take Betelgeuse around 290 parsecs farther from the galactic plane where there is no star formation region—an implausible scenario..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betelgeuse



And of course they claim it is a runaway.

"The most likely star-formation scenario for Betelgeuse is that it is a runaway star.."

The things you guys resort to, in making up your fables amazes me!


Like this gem..


""The star is traveling at an absurd velocity, twice as much as the star needs to escape the galaxy's gravitational field," said Brown. "There is no star that travels that quickly under normal circumstances — something exotic has to happen."

There's another twist to this story. Based on the speed and position of HE 0437-5439, the star would have to be 100 million years old to have journeyed from the Milky Way's core. Yet its mass — 9 times that of our Sun — and blue color mean that it should have burned out after only 20 million years, far shorter than the transit time it took to get to its current location.

The most likely explanation for the star's blue color and extreme speed is that it was part of a triple-star system that was involved in a gravitational billiard-ball game with the galaxy's monster black hole. "
http://www.astronomy.com/~/link.aspx?_id=99340f74-1b5a-47a7-b243-8c282ca1c8e4

I truly find it hard to accept that anyone actually believes this nonsense.


No wonder you don't even know what the basic forces are.

 

[dad]

I agree that currently no one knows for sure what causes gravity, because we don’t yet have enough sound evidence to come to a conclusion.

Right, in other words you don't know. Same thing with all the basic forces!

What makes Christians credulous is that they believe they do know what causes gravity, despite a complete lack of sound evidence to support their belief that their God created it or even that their God exists.

It doesn't matter what anyone believes in relation to the forces. Once it is admitted you do not know, it is a free for all.

What’s your objection? It is clear that most Christian religious beliefs depend on one core belief: that your God is real. If your God isn’t real then it didn’t create anything, you are not made in its image, it doesn’t answer prayers, Jesus was not its son and it won’t grant you eternal life. The core belief that your God is real is not true so all of the beliefs that depend on it are not true as well. Again, if you think your belief that your God is real is correct then demonstrate that to us. Explain to us the sound evidence and sound reasoning you used to arrive at that conclusion.

My objection to..what?? You not knowing even the basics? I don't object, unless you pretend you do know.

Those beliefs, of course. As you said in your OP, Christians believe their God created gravity. I’m asking you to demonstrate that your belief is correct. Explain to us what sound evidence and sound reasoning you used to reach the conclusion that your God created gravity.

No one needs to demo their beliefs in a science forum. We are just trying to bust those with beliefs that have masqueraded as science here! I do not need to know how God sets up laws and forces. I do not need to know a lot of things.

No. If scientists don’t know something, but have ideas about it then those ideas are hypotheses that need to be tested and confirmed or refuted.

So do you know what the forces are or not? Who cares about a hypothesis if you don't!!!?? If you do, who needs one!?

They are not beliefs and certainly nothing like the unsubstantiated beliefs that religious believers hold. Most Christian religious beliefs are completely unsubstantiated and simply not true.

Diversion attempt. You have no way of knowing that 'Most Christian religious beliefs are completely unsubstantiated and simply not true'

 

[dad]

Gravity as they explained in junior high, is caused by a body's mass as it exists in the timespace. The body somehow bend the time space alittle causing satellites of that body spin around it in circles. When timespace is bent the objects close to the body are attracted to the body's centrum.

To revoke natural laws we need another perception of them, don't we?

I wouldn't want to revoke gravity, thanks. Nor the other forces. They work well in this temporary ol world. So what is timespace? Is all space time space? Have you bent any timespace lately? Can I see some?

 

[matthewgar]

Gravity as they explained in junior high, is caused by a body's mass as it exists in the timespace. The body somehow bend the time space alittle causing satellites of that body spin around it in circles. When timespace is bent the objects close to the body are attracted to the body's centrum.

To revoke natural laws we need another perception of them, don't we?

To explain gravity in a 2D plane, would be like sticking a bowling ball on a trampoline, the trampoline is space, the ball is the sun, the indentation of the trampoline is gravity. Things arn't pulled towards it or spin around it, they spin around the warp in space formed by the object. If you were to take a marble and send it rolling past the bowling ball fast enough, it goes in and out with a slight change in direction. You roll a marble too slow and it gets pulled right in towards the bowling ball. Right speed and the marble circles around the bowling ball tilll it falls towards it due to friction, in space there is no friction, so the marble will continue to spin around it continually, this is how gravity works.

The bowling ball is the sun, the marble is the earth, and the indentation of the trampoline is gravity.esentially the earth is constantly going around the gravity well of the sun and since no friction it will continue to do so untill something changes this.

 

[3sigma]

It doesn't matter what anyone believes in relation to the forces. Once it is admitted you do not know, it is a free for all.

No, it isn’t a free-for-all if one has an ounce of reason and intellectual honesty. When there is a lack of sound evidence supporting any conclusion, reasonable people don’t leap to any conclusion they feel like. Only credulous people jump to conclusions unsupported by any sound evidence. Christians such as yourself have leapt to the conclusion that your God created gravity, despite a complete lack of sound evidence supporting that credulous conclusion. There is zero sound evidence that your God even exists.

We are just trying to bust those with beliefs that have masqueraded as science here!

What a classic case of projection and lack of self-awareness. Scientists don’t believe they know what created gravity. Scientists have no such belief. Those with beliefs that have masqueraded as science here are the Christians. It is Christians who believe they know what created gravity. However, that unsubstantiated belief is not correct.

I do not need to know how God sets up laws and forces. I do not need to know a lot of things.

What you are saying here is: “I don’t know what causes gravity, but not knowing makes me anxious so I’m going to assume an answer that reinforces my comforting religious beliefs and I’m unable or unwilling to investigate any further.”

You have no way of knowing that 'Most Christian religious beliefs are completely unsubstantiated and simply not true'

Actually, I do have a way of knowing that. After decades of asking Christians questions about their beliefs, their responses have shown me that most of their religious beliefs are unsubstantiated and not true. Your responses confirm it. You too will be unable to show me that your beliefs that your God is real or that it created gravity are substantiated or true.

As I said before, most of Christians’ religious beliefs depend on the core belief that their God is real. If your God isn’t real then it didn’t create gravity or anything else, it doesn’t answer prayers, Jesus wasn’t its son and it doesn’t grant eternal life. That belief that your God is real is not true so all beliefs that depend on it are also not true. You can easily prove me wrong by explaining what sound evidence and sound reasoning you used to reach the conclusion that your God is real and that it created gravity.

Show us that your belief is correct. Show us that your belief is conforming to or agreeing with fact, logic or known truth. Of course, you’ll trot out worthless excuses for why you are unable or unwilling to do that and you’ll try all sorts of diversions and evasion tactics, but we all know the one thing neither you nor any other Christian will do is demonstrate that the belief that your God is real is based on sound evidence or sound reasoning or that it is true.

 

[Lillen]

On stars, i've said this before, but i believe stars are ancient heros who looks down at us. Jesus had a star!!

 

[AV1611VET]

On stars, i've said this before, but i believe stars are ancient heros who looks down at us. Jesus had a star!!

That's pretty close -- some think they are the habitats of angels.