Where do Christians stand?

[LOCO]

Bull turds.What we have is foolish people who think they are smarter than God so come with a stupid theory called evolution. Evolution is The worst piece of bovine excrement ever!

Well if you were trying to sway me, that's gotta be the most unconvincing argument I've heard and delivered in such 'charming language':o.


Blessings

 

[Bex.]

And what of those scientists who don't accept it? ever heard of peer review?

Of course I have; it's the basis of the scientific method.

 

[tyronem]

My statement is not fallacy. The fact I share that opinion has little to do with the fact that more people on this planet think the Bible is fantasy than those who don't. Now that's a fact.

It's amusing that you are happy to indulge scientific evidence when it suits you, but not when it doesn't.

Yes your statement was, you appeal to it being a popular notion that the Bible is flawed. You don't base your argument in facts, you base it in popularity and that is not an valid argument.

I find it amusing that you think that in a world where approximately 2 Billion people believe in the Bible, another approx 2 Billion Muslims who believe in the Bible, Koran and God but think Mulhummad was the final prophet. Then you have the approx 2 Billion other people with varying religious views who while they may or may not know of the Bible and God and may or may not reject it for various reasons. They don't think it is fantasy because they themselves hold a religious viewpoint.

Therefore using your own argument against you you are in the minority of less than 5% of the worlds population who think the Bible is fantasy. It is Certainly not a fact that the majority of people think the Bible is fantasy.

You, I think need to research your facts a little deeper than shallow statements.

 

[LOCO]

My statement is not fallacy. The fact I share that opinion has little to do with the fact that more people on this planet think the Bible is fantasy than those who don't. Now that's a fact.

It's amusing that you are happy to indulge scientific evidence when it suits you, but not when it doesn't.

Hi Bex,

I'd be interested in the research done on the percentage of the world who consider'The Bible fantasy'.

Who were the researchers? How many countries were surveyed? Do you have a link to the Paper?

Also, 'facts' in the strict sense of the word, do not change, ever.

You cannot apply it to the number of believers of any Scripture, because it fluctuates, people join and leave religions. At best it can be an estimate for a certain period of time.


Blessings

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Hi Bex,

I'd be interested in the research done on the percentage of the world who think 'The Bible considered fantasy'.

Who were the researchers? How many countries were surveyed? Do you have a link to the Paper?

Also, 'facts' in the strict sense of the word, do not change, ever.

You cannot apply it to the number of believers of any Scripture, because it fluctuates, people join and leave religions. At best it can be an estimate for a certain period of time.


Blessings

Facts don't change? Really?

It's a fact that one human could own another human at one point in time. It's also a fact that it is now illegal to own another human. Facts do change, sometimes, and it's good that they do, or else we'd be subjected to other immoral and unethical practices the Bible tends to endorse.

 

[LOCO]

Facts don't change? Really?

It's a fact that one human could own another human at one point in time. It's also a fact that it is now illegal to own another human. Facts do change, sometimes, and it's good that they do, or else we'd be subjected to other immoral and unethical practices the Bible tends to endorse.

Facts from a scientific point of view don't change ever. Bex alluded to some research done on the majority of people finding the Bible to be a fantasy.

Facts and theories are different things, just as facts and personal opinion are different things.

Facts are not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them.

Facts from a scientific viewpoint are things like: only a woman can give birth to a child or air is a mixture of gases, consisting primarily of nitrogen and oxygen, with some trace gases as well.

It is not illegal in some countries to own another human being. In Saudi Arabia, other middle eastern countries and some African countries, people are still dealing in human slavery. Not to mention the sex slave trade in Asia. There are other countries in the world besides the one we live in.

I think you are confusing facts in the general meaning of the word to the scientific meaning.

The Bible doesn't endorse anything. It cannot speak, it is an inanimate object.

The Bible cannot say 'hang on you misinterpreted that' or 'hang on this is what happened hundreds of years ago, I'm not suggesting you do that now" or 'yup that is exactly what Matthew meant'.

Humans who interpret the Bible may err in their interpretation of its contents.


Blessings

 

[Bex.]

My response was to the absurd account that the Bible is fact. I was trying to show that what might be a fact to you, may not be a fact to someone else. Since I'm forced to explain myself I guess I missed the mark.

Moreover, to call the Bible fact and then use Islamists as an example of people who believe it to be factual is absurd, and that comparison was made. Whilst Islamists might consider aspects of the Bible a true historical account, they clearly don't think it's a fact as Jesus is merely a prophet to them, not the son of God etc.

So if we restrict those who think the Bible is fact to Christians, then it's plainly obvious those who believe it are outnumbered by those who don't. Take China and India for instance, several billion people with very small Christian populations. All of North and South America just can't compete with that.

Anyway, I hope that clears up the point I was trying to make.

 

[LOCO]

My response was to the absurd account that the Bible is fact. I was trying to show that what might be a fact to you, may not be a fact to someone else. Since I'm forced to explain myself I guess I missed the mark.

Moreover, to call the Bible fact and then use Islamists as an example of people who believe it to be factual is absurd, and that comparison was made. Whilst Islamists might consider aspects of the Bible a true historical account, they clearly don't think it's a fact as Jesus is merely a prophet to them, not the son of God etc.

So if we restrict those who think the Bible is fact to Christians, then it's plainly obvious those who believe it are outnumbered by those who don't. Take China and India for instance, several billion people with very small Christian populations. All of North and South America just can't compete with that.

Anyway, I hope that clears up the point I was trying to make.

If the claim the OP was making is that the entire Bible consists of facts then I'd agree with you. That would be an absurd claim.

I don't know any Christian who thinks the entire Bible is factual.

The Bible contains some true stories, some parables, some allegories and some tales.

The ability to distinguish between these and interpret them was given directly to the Apostles from Yeshua and then onto their successors i.e. Apostolic Succession, which is where the Catholic, Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox churches teachings stem from.

The Christians you may be wrestling with could believe in Sola Scriptura. They believe unless a teaching is explicitly written in Scripture it is an anathema. For these Christians Scripture is the only infallible rule for faith and practice.

With regard to Muslims, I agree, they do not believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. For Muslims the Qur'an is the final authority and the last revelation of Allah.

Jews are familiar with the first 5 books of the Bible being that it is their Pentateuch, commonly referred to as the Torah. They do not believe the New Testament books.

The OP may be referring to the historical ties that bind Muslims, Jews and Christians i.e. all these faiths are Abrahamic.

Blessings

 

[Incariol]

I'm confused. This seems to have turned into a comparative religions seminar.

 

[theFijian]

Because everyone believed it, everyone believed the earth was young, gap theorists and day age theorists have only come about in recent history, they are not historical throughout the Church.

But didn't everyone believe in the authority of scripture? So why was that in the creeds? You are undermining your own argument!

 

[tyronem]

My response was to the absurd account that the Bible is fact. I was trying to show that what might be a fact to you, may not be a fact to someone else. Since I'm forced to explain myself I guess I missed the mark.

lol, relativism at it's best.

Facts are not relative, a fact is something that is indisputably the case. This new statement of your's violates the law of non-contradiction, something cannot be true and false at the same time.

Moreover, to call the Bible fact and then use Islamists as an example of people who believe it to be factual is absurd, and that comparison was made. Whilst Islamists might consider aspects of the Bible a true historical account, they clearly don't think it's a fact as Jesus is merely a prophet to them, not the son of God etc.

Your statement said that the Majority think the Bible is fantasy. My point is that Muslim's don't consider it fantasy, though they disagree with doctrines. Muslim's in fact take the Bible and Christianity very seriously, they do not consider it fantasy.

So if we restrict those who think the Bible is fact to Christians, then it's plainly obvious those who believe it are outnumbered by those who don't. Take China and India for instance, several billion people with very small Christian populations. All of North and South America just can't compete with that.
Anyway, I hope that clears up the point I was trying to make.

China - 100 Million Christians (Nearly 10%) - The fastest growing Christians in a nation with an average of 24,356 people converting to Christianity Every Day For the last 10 Years. At present rates if I consider the growth linear (which it is not, it is exponential) it will only be 146 years and China will be a predominantly Christian country. Oh yeah, we are doing a Goooooood job

In India While Christianity only numbers approximately 2.3% with lower growth rates than China this is basically down to the country already having a religious system in place that lets men do as they please so conversion rates are harder to achieve in a situation where Satan has firmly embedded himself into the psyche through Hinduism. As a side note, Christianity was actually first introduced into India by the Apostle Thomas in 52 AD.

And again, to re-iterate the Indian Hindu culture is not a system of unbelief as is atheism, so to say they think the Bible is fantasy is not entirely an honest way of looking at it. It does not fit their religious system and is an opposition, however due to their pantheistic culture they can and do actually call Christianity a path, a bhakti yoga. So to say they do not believe the Bible is actually not accurate. This has alot to do with the way Hinduism actually doesn't believe that we are currently in a reality and that the only reality is after death or Nirvana.

Hindu's are actually extremely hard to dialogue with, more so than muslims, why? Because rather than islamic intolerance, Hindu's are so tolerant of every religion they actually believe it and accept it as a path to enlightenment throughout each re-incarnation until they reach a state of Nirvana.

Are you getting the point of why your statement is so erroneous ?

 

[cubinity]

If the claim the OP was making is that the entire Bible consists of facts then I'd agree with you. That would be an absurd claim.

I don't know any Christian who thinks the entire Bible is factual.

The Bible contains some true stories, some parables, some allegories and some tales.

The ability to distinguish between these and interpret them was given directly to the Apostles from Yeshua and then onto their successors i.e. Apostolic Succession, which is where the Catholic, Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox churches teachings stem from.

The Christians you may be wrestling with could believe in Sola Scriptura. They believe unless a teaching is explicitly written in Scripture it is an anathema. For these Christians Scripture is the only infallible rule for faith and practice.

With regard to Muslims, I agree, they do not believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. For Muslims the Qur'an is the final authority and the last revelation of Allah.

Jews are familiar with the first 5 books of the Bible being that it is their Pentateuch, commonly referred to as the Torah. They do not believe the New Testament books.

The OP may be referring to the historical ties that bind Muslims, Jews and Christians i.e. all these faiths are Abrahamic.

Blessings

Question for you: Why are you talking to the OP in the third person?
It's sort of weird...

 

[theFijian]

So can TULIP.

The pretrib can take a hike! This is fun isn't it!

 

[tyronem]

If the claim the OP was making is that the entire Bible consists of facts then I'd agree with you. That would be an absurd claim.
I don't know any Christian who thinks the entire Bible is factual.
The Bible contains some true stories, some parables, some allegories and some tales.

Most I know believe the Bible to be the inerrant, accurate, inspired word of God. (I say most because TE's think that Genesis is a myth like a condensed movie)

This is a huge topic, but for an easy portion take Job for example, while this is an accurate factual recording, it contains some lies (Jobs friends lies) the lies are not factual, but the record is factual. - does that make sense?

The ability to distinguish between these and interpret them was given directly to the Apostles from Yeshua and then onto their successors i.e. Apostolic Succession, which is where the Catholic, Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox churches teachings stem from.
The Christians you may be wrestling with could believe in Sola Scriptura. They believe unless a teaching is explicitly written in Scripture it is an anathema. For these Christians Scripture is the only infallible rule for faith and practice.

Absolutely, Sola Scriptura, if it is not Scriptural, it is not Biblical and therefore an invalid faith position.

Stepping outside of this can lead to all sorts of heresies such as the idolatry that Catholics indulge in when they worship the statue of Mary.

With regard to Muslims, I agree, they do not believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. For Muslims the Qur'an is the final authority and the last revelation of Allah.

Jews are familiar with the first 5 books of the Bible being that it is their Pentateuch, commonly referred to as the Torah. They do not believe the New Testament books.

The OP may be referring to the historical ties that bind Muslims, Jews and Christians i.e. all these faiths are Abrahamic.

Yes I do refer to them being Abrahamic, and also that the Islamic do not consider the Bible fantasy. Their own faith is rooted in a twisted demented version of OT scriptures and insane ramblings of Mohommed. They are (for the most part) fully aware of these connections.

Also like I said, their opinion doctrinally differs in that they deny the deity of Christ, but they do not consider the Bible fantasy....

Blessings Sister

P.S I don't mind being talked about in the third person, I mean, the OP doesn't mind it, because the OP frequently refers to himself in the 3rd person, lol

 

[Incariol]

1. Saying something is a "myth" does not mean it isn't true.

2. Not all of us believe in Sola Scriptura.

Sent from my iPod touch using Forum Runner

 

[tyronem]

1. Saying something is a "myth" does not mean it isn't true.

2. Not all of us believe in Sola Scriptura.

Sent from my iPod touch using Forum Runner

That's cool, I'm aware of the diverse doctrinal differences.

 

[AV1611VET]

2. Not all of us believe in Sola Scriptura.

Not all of us believe in evolution.

 

[Psudopod]

Your statement said that the Majority think the Bible is fantasy. My point is that Muslim's don't consider it fantasy, though they disagree with doctrines. Muslim's in fact take the Bible and Christianity very seriously, they do not consider it fantasy.

Apostrophes do not mean "Look out, there is an s coming". Sorry, the misuse of the poor apostrophe is a real bugbear of mine.

 

[LinuxUser]

Not all of us believe in evolution.

Those who don't believe in evolution are seemly vilified here.

 

[Non sequitur]

Those who don't believe in evolution are seemly vilified here.

Maybe you should define what evolution is, to you, first.