Where did the concept of 'Celibacy' come from?

[now faith]

Hierarchial forms of church government tends to consolidate power at the top of the pyramid and almost inevitably becomes rigid and self serving. It becomes rigid not just in its structure and authority but also in its belief. Generally speaking the development of dogma and creed serve less to enlighten the faithful than to confuse them. It becomes a litmus test to identify the faithful as either one of ours or one of those horrible heretics. Dogma and creed become sacrosanct ---- locked in place and not to be tampered with even when new information or new understandings of old information comes along. Even in the rare event that an enlightened progressive leader takes power, the structure itself ensures that little if any real change takes place.

This is true,many look to the Church to sanctify their life rather than God's Word

 

[tz620q]

This is true,many look to the Church to sanctify their life rather than God's Word

By God's Word do you mean Jesus Christ? I would take it that way since you capitalized word.

 

[Root of Jesse]

This is true,many look to the Church to sanctify their life rather than God's Word

Which came first, the Church or the Bible?

 

[now faith]

Which came first, the Church or the Bible?

The Lord came first Christ Jesus ,there is a difference between religion and salvation.

The Church of religon ,has nothing to do with the Body of believers in Christ.

The Church cannot offer salvation ,but God's word does.

A Church cannot be a Christian place of worship without God's word.

So if you are implying the Church of Rome has authority over God's Word, you are wrong.

 

[now faith]

By God's Word do you mean Jesus Christ? I would take it that way since you capitalized word.

You have that right ,if we agree on John chapter 1

 

[NonTheologian]

The Council of Trullo in 692 - which is recognized in the Orthodox Church but not by the Roman Catholic Church as canonical - actually condemned the practice of involuntary celibacy for priests and deacons and anathematized those who attempted to separate priests and deacons from their wives. See http://orthodoxwiki.org/Quinisext_Council

 

[NonTheologian]

So if you are implying the Church of Rome has authority over God's Word, you are wrong.

The Church of Rome is not necessarily "the Church". The early Church comprised the Sees of Rome, Constantinople, Jerusalem, Alexandria and Antioch. The Church of Rome is currently separated from the other four Sees, which today comprise the Orthodox Church.

 

[Erose]

The Lord came first Christ Jesus ,there is a difference between religion and salvation.

And? Of course there is a difference because the two terms speaks of something that isn't the other. No one has claimed that religion and salvation are synonyms.

The Church of religon ,has nothing to do with the Body of believers in Christ.

I take it you have read the NT, since the writings of the NT refer to the Body of believers as the Church. So in this case Church and Body of Believers are the same thing.

The Church cannot offer salvation ,but God's word does.

Actually the Church does offer salvation, because Christ has made her the ordinary means by which salvation is given. Through the preaching of the Word and Baptism. Mark 16:16 is very explicit in pointing this out.

A Church cannot be a Christian place of worship without God's word.

Got this one right.

So if you are implying the Church of Rome has authority over God's Word, you are wrong.

No one is implying that if you are referring to God's Word as Jesus Christ.

 

[Erose]

The Council of Trullo in 692 - which is recognized in the Orthodox Church but not by the Roman Catholic Church as canonical - actually condemned the practice of involuntary celibacy for priests and deacons and anathematized those who attempted to separate priests and deacons from their wives. See http://orthodoxwiki.org/Quinisext_Council

Trollo was nothing more than a local synod, that had no binding power outside the specific Patriarchates who adhere to it.

 

[Erose]

The Church of Rome is not necessarily "the Church". The early Church comprised the Sees of Rome, Constantinople, Jerusalem, Alexandria and Antioch. The Church of Rome is currently separated from the other four Sees, which today comprise the Orthodox Church.

The Patriarchate of Alexandria is not in communion with Constantiople.

 

[NonTheologian]

Trollo was nothing more than a local synod, that had no binding power outside the specific Patriarchates who adhere to it.

I think that is consistent with what I said. The Orthodox Church comprises all of the ancient Patriarchates except Rome.

 

[civilwarbuff]

No one has claimed that religion and salvation are synonyms.

This probably not the appropriate forum but since you did bring it up..... has not the RCC historically said that anyone outside the church (RCC) cannot be saved?

 

[NonTheologian]

The Patriarchate of Alexandria is not in communion with Constantiople.

I think you might be thinking of the Coptic Church, which is headed by a Pope of Alexandria. The ancient Patriarchate of Alexandria - which remains in communion with Constantinople - still exists and is known as the "Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria and All Africa" (their website is here). The Coptic Church arose as a result of a schism following the Council of Chalcedon in 451 and it is not, as you suggest, in communion with Constantinople.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I think you might be thinking of the Coptic Church, which is headed by a Pope of Alexandria.

Does this Pope assert primacy over all Orthodox....sort of like the RCC Pope?

 

[WretchedGoat]

The concept is as old as time. When you're ugly and you stink, boom, you're celibate

Truth spoken here. I am as ugly as a dump truck, and I have a horrid personality, so it makes being "celibate" kind of easy for me. Even if I wanted to have a girlfriend, it's highly unlikely I could con one into being around me for any length of time.

 

[Erose]

I think that is consistent with what I said. The Orthodox Church comprises all of the ancient Patriarchates except Rome.

Actually it doesn't. Alexandria is not in communion with Constantiople, nor does it recognize Trullo.

 

[Erose]

I think you might be thinking of the Coptic Church, which is headed by a Pope of Alexandria. The ancient Patriarchate of Alexandria - which remains in communion with Constantinople - still exists and is known as the "Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria and All Africa" (their website is here). The Coptic Church arose as a result of a schism following the Council of Chalcedon in 451 and it is not, as you suggest, in communion with Constantinople.

Yeah, this was one of those instances where Constantinople did what it accuses Rome of always doing. Historically the Coptic Church of Alexandria is the original Patriarchate of Alexandria, both Patriarchates that are currently in communion with Rome and the other with Constantinople are not the sees which St. Mark established. So the see of St. Mark is not in communion with either Rome or Constantiople.

 

[Erose]

Does this Pope assert primacy over all Orthodox....sort of like the RCC Pope?

Only over the patriarchate of Alexandria.

 

[NonTheologian]

Does this Pope assert primacy over all Orthodox....sort of like the RCC Pope?

I am not Coptic, but I know that the answer to your question is no - the head of the Coptic Church does not assert any authority over any other Patriarchate.

Speaking of the Orthodox Church, the same is true. Today there are around 300 million Eastern Orthodox Christians around the world, split between eight Patriarchates, 5 autocephalous Churches, 5 autonomous Churches, along with a large body of diaspora across the world. There is no central authority like the Pope (although the Patriarch of Constantinople holds a place of honor), even though we are all in communion with each other. No one bishop asserts any primacy over any other bishop outside his territory. No bishop, Metropolitan, or Patriarch can make any major decision without the consensus of a synod of bishops.

 

[NonTheologian]

Yeah, this was one of those instances where Constantinople did what it accuses Rome of always doing. Historically the Coptic Church of Alexandria is the original Patriarchate of Alexandria, both Patriarchates that are currently in communion with Rome and the other with Constantinople are not the sees which St. Mark established. So the see of St. Mark is not in communion with either Rome or Constantiople.

I am not sure that the Roman Catholic church sees the Coptic Church as the legitimate See, since it accepts, as far as I know, the Canons of the Fourth Ecumenical Council. The Coptic Church rejects this Council. The current Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria formed from the remnant that accepted the Council. Is this not your understanding?