Where did the concept of 'Celibacy' come from?

[Erose]

The question is are all Catholics as informed as you? Most certainly not. There is going to be certain number of Catholics who go with the Pope no matter what he says or on the topic. Just at there are going to be Protestants who go with the "Wealth & Health" preachers that inundate the airwaves. Way back then, without the modern tech, people followed what their priests told them....most certainly when it concerned the Pope...the priest represented the Pope who represented Jesus....and not many had the courage to question the church.

I would say that the Catholics who are ill informed don't much care what the pope says anyway.

 

[Erose]

The answer is "yes" and "they have" look at the inquisitions and the crusades.

You should thank God for the crusades or we would be typing Arabic right now talking about how many wives we can have.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Depends on your definition of "ill informed".....which is, of course, not what I said.

I would say that the Catholics who are ill informed don't much care what the pope says anyway.

 

[civilwarbuff]

You should thank God for the crusades or we would be typing Arabic right now talking about how many wives we can have.

I don't think it would be that extreme....but things would be different....

 

[com7fy8]

Where did the concept of celibacy come from?

God. I mean if it is done right. It is not automatically good.

would you say that it is preferable to have a celibate church leader?

Paul gives standards for who qualifies to "take care of the church of God" > in 1 Timothy 3:1-10. So, if this is done right, it will work well. But ones have done the married pastor thing the wrong way so it has not worked, then they have blamed marriage!!

But priests take a vow of poverty, and most priests do not make even minimum wage for their hours worked. Trying to support a family on such a wage would be next to impossible, practically.

Paul our Apostle says he worked with his own hands to take care of himself plus he made enough to take care of those who were with him. This he did by means of God's grace, so this worked . . . as is possible with God. But people who do things the wrong way will have problems; and humans can invent thought-up problems to make a good thing seem bad or impossible to do . . . "instead of learning to do it right." And by God's grace, while he worked, he also was able to do all the ministering he did.

But humans don't do things in God's grace; so they fail, then make up doctrines and policies which accommodate their failure and weakness.

Acts 20:32-36

Philippians 4:13

Here is my "opinion" about why God gave us celibacy and holy matrimony >

Our Apostle Paul says >

"For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that." (1 Corinthians 7:7)

And James says >

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning." (James 1:17)

So, I see from these verses that marriage and celibacy in the Holy Spirit are good and perfect gifts; but human counterfeits aren't!! God's grace makes you succeed, not bleed, in whichever is your gift. And Peter says that our gifts minister God's very own grace > 1 Peter 4:9-10.

So, celibacy is for ministering God's grace; and holy matrimony ministers grace. But I consider these gifts are specialized. Celibacy is for learning how to become intimate with God and do only what He personally guides us to do; a celibate gains growth and experience in this, while he or she ministers the grace of this to help other celibates but also married people to get closer to God. So, may be celibacy is the helper gift for our First Love Commandment to love God with all we've got.

Meanwhile, holy matrimony is the gift for sharing in a very close involvement with another person while growing in love . . . not falling in lust and infatuation and then falling apart in arguing and complaining . . . but grow in real love and do not fall, but grow. In marriage you are in a research laboratory in which you with each other make breakthrough discoveries of how to love And then minister this ability to relate . . . to other couples, to ones preparing for marriage, and also minister to celibates to help them learn how to relate in love. So, holy matrimony is the helpmate gift for our Second Love Commandment to love others as well as we care for our own selves

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

You should thank God for the crusades or we would be typing Arabic right now talking about how many wives we can have.

And about the 4th crusade where the Roman Catholic pope slaughtered thousands of orthodox christians at constantinople?

 

[civilwarbuff]

And about the 4th crusade where the Roman Catholic pope slaughtered thousands of orthodox christians at constantinople?

Do you have a reliable source for that statement?...my history classes were 45 years ago.....

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Do you have a reliable source for that statement?...my history classes were 45 years ago.....

Here is a quick Google result. I honestly have not read it entirely but it has the main info about the sack of constantinople.

http://www.historynet.com/fourth-crusade.htm

 

[civilwarbuff]

Thx

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Thx

I must warn you that it is a long read.

 

[JackRT]

And about the 4th crusade where the Roman Catholic pope slaughtered thousands of orthodox christians at constantinople?

I think it was just before that massacre that a warrior bishop was asked by his troops how to tell the difference between a Christian and a Muslim. His reply? "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

 

[Erose]

And about the 4th crusade where the Roman Catholic pope slaughtered thousands of orthodox christians at constantinople?

And here is a perfect example of history revisionism. The pope did not authorize the sack of Constantinople. In fact the pope at that time excommunicated every single crusader involved in the sack. The very last thing the pope wanted was for what had happened. The emperor promised unity between the Eastern and Western Churches, and the folly of the leadership of those crusaders destroyed that recent unity. So get your facts straight.

 

[tz620q]

I think it was just before that massacre that a warrior bishop was asked by his troops how to tell the difference between a Christian and a Muslim. His reply? "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

Well not much better; but it seems to be attributed to Arnaud Amalric who was speaking about the Albingensian Crusades, not the fourth Crusade.

 

[JackRT]

Well not much better; but it seems to be attributed to Arnaud Amalric who was speaking about the Albingensian Crusades, not the fourth Crusade.

It is also attributed to an American officer during the Viet Nam War. A sad commentary on that conflict.

 

[tz620q]

Here is a quick Google result. I honestly have not read it entirely but it has the main info about the sack of constantinople.

http://www.historynet.com/fourth-crusade.htm

The only place in that whole essay that mentions the Pope was in saying that he excommunicated the Venetians after they suborned the intent of the Crusade to have the Crusaders capture Zara. This doesn't sound like support for what happened.

 

[Root of Jesse]

And about the 4th crusade where the Roman Catholic pope slaughtered thousands of orthodox christians at constantinople?

The Catholic Pope slaughtered nobody. Soldiers over-ran Constantinople. Rampant soldiering was not what the Crusades were about. They were promulgated by the Pope with lots of conditions on those who served, in order for the Pope's blessing to be valid. Slaughtering friendlies and overtaking European cities was not one of the conditions. To be honest, slaughtering Muslims wasn't the purpose either. Protecting the Christians visiting and living in the Holy Land was. I grant you that, past the first Crusade, they went awry and didn't accomplish much of anything except to give soldiers target practice. But the popes' purpose was almost never given much attention.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The Catholic Pope slaughtered nobody. Soldiers over-ran Constantinople. Rampant soldiering was not what the Crusades were about. They were promulgated by the Pope with lots of conditions on those who served, in order for the Pope's blessing to be valid. Slaughtering friendlies and overtaking European cities was not one of the conditions. To be honest, slaughtering Muslims wasn't the purpose either. Protecting the Christians visiting and living in the Holy Land was. I grant you that, past the first Crusade, they went awry and didn't accomplish much of anything except to give soldiers target practice. But the popes' purpose was almost never given much attention.

Sarcasm alert: So...after the murder of thousands of innocent people, people were so upset at the pope because nobody wanted to marry him. Filled with anger, he decreed that no priest or nun will ever marry if he couldn't. And that my friends is how you get a thread back on rails.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Sarcasm alert: So...after the murder of thousands of innocent people, people were so upset at the pope because nobody wanted to marry him. Filled with anger, he decreed that no priest or nun will ever marry if he couldn't. And that my friends is how you get a thread back on rails.

Why should anyone be upset at the pope? Because he sent an army to Jerusalem? Their anger was obviously misplaced. By the way, where did you get the idea I wasbyour friend??? I may be cordial but that's only civility.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Why should anyone be upset at the pope? Because he sent an army to Jerusalem? Their anger was obviously misplaced. By the way, where did you get the idea I wasbyour friend??? I may be cordial but that's only civility.

It was a joke not to be taken seriously. Hence the "sarcasm alert". My point was that we are getting off topic and I am trying to get it back on topic.

 

[chevyontheriver]

But which is worse being married or having children out of wedlock?

Your supposed married popes shot flopped but you were able to score on the rebound. Nice touch.