Where are the Fathers?

[music4two]

Where are the fathers? We have lots of children who have had their sins forgiven and they know God. We have lots of young men that have some power in God. But – where are the Fathers that know the depth of God? Those that have learned His wisdom. Those that have built relationship with Him and developed His character.
I am often saddened by what I see in Christianity. I see millions of children running around with no fathers to raise them up. They bounce from one doctrinal stand to another till they find one that fits them then park in defiance of any change. They are never taught the truly important questions like: “What does your doctrine do to help you become like Christ?” or “What piece of God’s wisdom does it teach you?” Unfortunately God’s wisdom and relationship with Him are set on a back burner in favor of lining up with one doctrine or another. They and their beliefs become dysfunctional in God’s economy.
They are dysfunctional because they do not posses God’s wisdom to guide their lives and they lack relationship to even trust in God. They find a doctrine that is just as dysfunctional and take that as proof that they are on the right track. They go around and around on this track and assume it is the right one because there are so many others doing the same thing.
Functional doctrine, functional relationship and functional wisdom seems to be the farthest from most hearts. Yet those lacking all of these things end up as pastors and teachers. Those remaining never seem to grow up into sons of God with the authority that comes from having learned the depths of God so that He can trust them.

What does scripture say on the subject?
One thing to remember is that all scripture was written by Hebrews. They think and write in different ways then those of Western cultures. Let me give a Hebrew perspective on a few verses that are important to this understanding. I have retranslated key words to the Hebrew understandings.
Matthew 22:37
And He said to him, " ' YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'

Matthew 22:37
And He said to him,”You shall have an intimacy of action and emotion for your God by the authority you have within, with your body, your character, your thoughts and emotions, and everything that makes you who you are.”

1 John 4:21
And this direction toward Zion we have from Him, that the one who has strong intimate feelings toward God should have the same feelings for his brother and also provide for, and protect that privledged relationship.

Hebrews 4:2
For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by action and firmness toward God’s will in those who heard.

John says it very well ---
(I have taken the liberty to translate this portin of scripture to a Hebrew perspective.)
1 John 2
1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not miss the mark And if anyone misses the mark, we have an Advocate with the one who gives strength to the family, Jesus Christ the one who stayed on the path;
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our missing; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we respect and guard His directions toward Zion.
4The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep to His directions toward Zion, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5but whoever guards and protects His intentions and motives, in him the love of God has truly been perfected By this we know that we are in Him:
6the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
7Beloved, I am not writing a new direction to you, but an old direction which you have had from the beginning; the old direction is the intentions of God which you have heard.
8On the other hand, I am writing a new direction to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.
9The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
10The one who has strong intimate feelings for his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
11But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
12I am writing to you, little children, because the penalty for missing the mark has been forgiven you for His name's sake.
13I am writing to you, givers of strength, because you know Him who has been from the beginning I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one I have written to you, children, because you know the one who gives strength to the family.
14I have written to you, givers of strength, because you know Him who has been from the beginning I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the intentions and motives of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

 

[music4two]

I am astonished. I thought this would spur some comment.

 

[Solidlyhere]

Divorce . . . a decision that hurts everyone.

It's too bad that every couple doesn't stay married.
But, it's a fact-of-Life.

Many fathers do a good job of emotional support for their kids, long after the break-up.

So, OP, it seems like you are being pretty hard on ALL fathers.
This is not fair.
Your rhetoric is somewhat mean-spirited. It is un-deserved by most ex-hubbys.

Second OP post: "I am astonished. I thought this would spur some comment."
Yeah.
My comment: I do not agree with your view on the subject.
Please be kinder to Dads.

 

[E.C.]

If you want to know where the fathers of divorced children are, ask the courts.

It is the courts that decide where the children may live and who they can and can't see.

I am fortunate enough to live with my dad only because my brother and I left our mom.

 

[elizabethevangeline]

I think the OP is referring to 1 Jn 2:12-14:

"I write to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake.

I write to you, fathers, because you have known Him who is from the beginning.

I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one.

I write to you, little children, because you have know the Father.

I have written to you, fathers, because you have known Him who is from the beginning.

I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the wicked one."


Is the OP really about the role of Dads in the spiritual development of their children or about elders with tested maturity to help younger believers develop past the spiritual childishness?

 

[E.C.]

I think the OP is referring to 1 Jn 2:12-14:

"I write to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake.

I write to you, fathers, because you have known Him who is from the beginning.

I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the wicked one.

I write to you, little children, because you have know the Father.

I have written to you, fathers, because you have known Him who is from the beginning.

I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the wicked one."

Oh... well...

In that case...

This here sounds semi-metaphorical, so I'll just leave this thread. I sense debating coming soon.

 

[MooCar93]

I am often saddened by what I see in Christianity. I see millions of children running around with no fathers to raise them up. They bounce from one doctrinal stand to another till they find one that fits them then park in defiance of any change. They are never taught the truly important questions like: “What does your doctrine do to help you become like Christ?” or “What piece of God’s wisdom does it teach you?” Unfortunately God’s wisdom and relationship with Him are set on a back burner in favor of lining up with one doctrine or another. They and their beliefs become dysfunctional in God’s economy.

Can only fathers provide such wisdom? What about moms? It seems like our society focuses so much on the role fathers play in a person's development... where's the appreciation for the role a mom plays?

 

[elizabethevangeline]

Oh... well...

In that case...

This here sounds semi-metaphorical, so I'll just leave this thread. I sense debating coming soon.

I edited in a question to verify what the specific focus is. I would hope there's not a lot to debate about because it is a good issue to explore-spiritual maturity requires a lot of hard work, listening to & humbly learning from those who have struggled toward it already.

 

[music4two]

I am surprised that many seem to have missed the entire point of my original post. I certainly was not an invitation to man bash. The post is about Christian maturity (male or female) and the lack od it in our world.

I suppose the type of response is a perfect example of what I mean.

 

[IamAdopted]

Where are the fathers? We have lots of children who have had their sins forgiven and they know God. We have lots of young men that have some power in God. But – where are the Fathers that know the depth of God? Those that have learned His wisdom. Those that have built relationship with Him and developed His character.
I am often saddened by what I see in Christianity. I see millions of children running around with no fathers to raise them up. They bounce from one doctrinal stand to another till they find one that fits them then park in defiance of any change. They are never taught the truly important questions like: “What does your doctrine do to help you become like Christ?” or “What piece of God’s wisdom does it teach you?” Unfortunately God’s wisdom and relationship with Him are set on a back burner in favor of lining up with one doctrine or another. They and their beliefs become dysfunctional in God’s economy.
They are dysfunctional because they do not posses God’s wisdom to guide their lives and they lack relationship to even trust in God. They find a doctrine that is just as dysfunctional and take that as proof that they are on the right track. They go around and around on this track and assume it is the right one because there are so many others doing the same thing.
Functional doctrine, functional relationship and functional wisdom seems to be the farthest from most hearts. Yet those lacking all of these things end up as pastors and teachers. Those remaining never seem to grow up into sons of God with the authority that comes from having learned the depths of God so that He can trust them.

What does scripture say on the subject?
One thing to remember is that all scripture was written by Hebrews. They think and write in different ways then those of Western cultures. Let me give a Hebrew perspective on a few verses that are important to this understanding. I have retranslated key words to the Hebrew understandings.
Matthew 22:37
And He said to him, " ' YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'

Matthew 22:37
And He said to him,”You shall have an intimacy of action and emotion for your God by the authority you have within, with your body, your character, your thoughts and emotions, and everything that makes you who you are.”

1 John 4:21
And this direction toward Zion we have from Him, that the one who has strong intimate feelings toward God should have the same feelings for his brother and also provide for, and protect that privledged relationship.

Hebrews 4:2
For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by action and firmness toward God’s will in those who heard.

John says it very well ---
(I have taken the liberty to translate this portin of scripture to a Hebrew perspective.)
1 John 2
1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not miss the mark And if anyone misses the mark, we have an Advocate with the one who gives strength to the family, Jesus Christ the one who stayed on the path;
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our missing; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we respect and guard His directions toward Zion.
4The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep to His directions toward Zion, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5but whoever guards and protects His intentions and motives, in him the love of God has truly been perfected By this we know that we are in Him:
6the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
7Beloved, I am not writing a new direction to you, but an old direction which you have had from the beginning; the old direction is the intentions of God which you have heard.
8On the other hand, I am writing a new direction to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.
9The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
10The one who has strong intimate feelings for his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
11But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
12I am writing to you, little children, because the penalty for missing the mark has been forgiven you for His name's sake.
13I am writing to you, givers of strength, because you know Him who has been from the beginning I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one I have written to you, children, because you know the one who gives strength to the family.
14I have written to you, givers of strength, because you know Him who has been from the beginning I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the intentions and motives of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

Awe not all are like this. We have disciple bible study at our assembly. We as a family in the assembly that I go to take a new born and feed them carefully. Making sure to feed them the sincere milk of the word and as they grow putting more and more into their diet.

 

[bliz]

I suppose the type of response is a perfect example of what I mean.

You can't slam the responses you get and then expect more people to join the discussion.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I would like to teach youngsters how to hunt, but because so many mothers (in the church) are opposed to such politically incorrect, and dangerous, activities, I hunt alone. And yes, there would have been opportunites to discuss spiritual stuff (as long it didn't interfere with the hunting).

 

[music4two]

You can't slam the responses you get and then expect more people to join the discussion.

That was not meant as a slam, but rather an observation.

 

[BethelArsonist]

1 John 4:21
And this direction toward Zion we have from Him, that the one who has strong intimate feelings toward God should have the same feelings for his brother and also provide for, and protect that privledged relationship.

My point.