Regeneration

[BobRyan]

It seems that only a few translations use "appeal" and not one says "appeal to God that is made before baptism"

Neither of which is possible for the infant.

But 2 Peter 3 does not claim that such an appeal can only be made while being placed under the water. No such restriction is presented in 2 Peter 3 for that appeal.

an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ - happens when a person hears about Christ's death and resurrection and is convicted of their sins - and so - makes the appeal .

But are you suggesting that the person being baptized is appealing to some human for a clean conscience when they hear about the death burial and resurrection of Christ?? That is certainly not in the text.

Rather the text says
"And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," NASB

21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, RSVCE (Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition)

21 And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (RSVACE)(Revised Standard Version - Anglicised Catholic Edition)

 

[Mark Quayle]

People are born body and soul only. It's why the natural man cannot comprehend the things of God and we all need to be born from above in order to see and enter God's Kingdom.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

John 3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

So the "Spirits in Hades" to which Jesus went and preached, they were regenerated?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Neither of which is possible for the infant.

Since what you claimed is not present in scripture it is clear that it is possible for no one.

 

[BobRyan]

Since what you claimed is not present in scripture it is clear that it is possible for no one.

In scripture we find "appeal to God" for a clean conscience. (even your own Catholic Bible translations have that same language in 1 Pet 3:21 as we already saw)

That appears to be a problem for what you have suggested so far.

In any case we probably both know that a great many denominations find that "baptismal regeneration" is not taught in the Bible.

 

[sawdust]

So the "Spirits in Hades" to which Jesus went and preached, they were regenerated?

No, they were fallen angels. Jesus wasn't preaching the Gospel to the unsaved, He was declaring His victory over Lucifer and death. You get one life to live then comes the judgement. It is not you get one life to live then comes another opportunity for salvation and judgement.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

They are said to be in gaol. They are not there awaiting judgement, (all men still await final judgement) they await final sentencing. Lucifer and his cronies have already been judged that is why God created the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:41
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

In scripture we find "appeal to God" for a clean conscience. (even your own Catholic Bible translations have that same language in 1 Pet 3:21 as we already saw)

That is incorrect. The Douay Rheims bible says:

Whereunto baptism, being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but, the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.​

1 Peter 3:21 DRB

That appears to be a problem for what you have suggested so far.

Not that I can see. Not a problem for me. Perhaps problematic for those who reject Baptism as a sacrament through which God effects the birth from above.

In any case we probably both know that a great many denominations find that "baptismal regeneration" is not taught in the Bible.

A number of small denominations influenced by Anabaptists, Baptists, and some independent groups.

 

[Mark Quayle]

No, they were fallen angels. Jesus wasn't preaching the Gospel to the unsaved, He was declaring His victory over Lucifer and death. You get one life to live then comes the judgement. It is not you get one life to live then comes another opportunity for salvation and judgement.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

They are said to be in gaol. They are not there awaiting judgement, (all men still await final judgement) they await final sentencing. Lucifer and his cronies have already been judged that is why God created the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:41
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

If they were fallen angels, how can they be spirits, is there are no spirits until regenerated? I mean, we are talking fairness, right? So how could God put man under that parameter but not the angels?

 

[sawdust]

If they were fallen angels, how can they be spirits, is there are no spirits until regenerated? I mean, we are talking fairness, right? So how could God put man under that parameter but not the angels?

Huh? Angels are spirit creatures. Men are souls but need a spirit to comprehend spiritual matters. I have no idea where you think you are going with this.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Huh? Angels are spirit creatures. Men are souls but need a spirit to comprehend spiritual matters. I have no idea where you think you are going with this.

My point is you are complicating an otherwise rather simple matter. Man is body, soul and spirit. If that spirit is called dead, by God it is dead, but not non-existent, not rotting in a corpse, not separated from the soul. Man needs an alive spirit to comprehend spiritual matters.

 

[sawdust]

Man needs an alive spirit to comprehend spiritual matters.

I know which is why you need to be born from above until then you are only the "psuchikos man" (1Cor.2:14), soulish, non-spiritual, body and soul only.