Where are the dinosaurs?

[Orogeny]

Because fossilization must occur through rapid burial where the animal must be buried alive.

Why?

 

[JoeyArnold]

Why?

Why? Why must fossilization occur rapidly? Why must they be buried alive? Are there alternatives to this? Are there examples where it has happened slowly over a course of time? How much time? These are questions I'm interested in.

 

[Orogeny]

Why? Why must fossilization occur rapidly? Why must they be buried alive?

Yes, that is the gist of my question.

Are there alternatives to this?

Yes.

Are there examples where it has happened slowly over a course of time?

Yes.

How much time?

Years to millions of years.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Fossils

Darwinius masillae (holotype) showing the remarkable preservation at Messel.



Splitting the shale with a large knife to reveal fossils.


The Messel Pit provides the best preserved evidence of Geiseltalian flora and fauna so far discovered. Most other sites are lucky to contain partial skeletons, but Messel boasts extensive preservation of structural integrity, even going so far as to preserve the fur, feathers, and "skin shadows" of some species. Unusual preservation has sparked some closely reasoned interpretations. The symptomatic "dumb-bell"-shaped bite marks on either side of the leaf vein on a fossilised leaf have been identified as the death-grip of a carpenter ant terminally parasitized by the fungus Ophiocordyceps unilateralis, that, apparently then as today, commandeered its behavior, in order to release its spores from a favourable location; it is the earliest concrete sample of fungal behavioural manipulation.[6]
The diversity of species is remarkable partly as a result of the hypothesized periodic gas releases. A brief summary of some of the fossils found at the site follows:

• Early primate fossil with anthropoid (i.e. non-lemuroid) characteristics (discovery made public May 2009), (see Darwinius masillae)
• Over 10,000 fossilized fish of numerous species
• Thousands of aquatic and terrestrial insects, some with distinct coloration still preserved
• Innumerable small mammals including pygmy horses, large mice, primates, ground dwellers (hedgehogs, marsupials, pangolins), aardvark relatives, and bats.
• Large numbers of birds, particularly predatory species.
• Crocodiles, frogs, turtles, salamanders, and other reptiles or amphibians
• Remains of over 30 distinct plant species, including palm leaves, fruits, pollen, wood, walnuts, and grapevines

The following is only a partial list:
[edit] Mammals

Darwinius masillae, identified in 2009 as a basal primate Kopidodon, an extinct arboreal mammal Leptictidium, an extinct omnivorous hopping mammal (of the leptictid family) Propalaeotherium, an early relative of horses Ailuravus, a rodent Peradectes, a marsupial Palaeochiropteryx, a bat Lesmesodon, a small creodont Eomanis, an early pangolin Eurotamandua, a scaleless, anteater-like pangolin Europolemur, a primate Paroodectes, a primitive carnivorous mammal Pholidocercus, an early hedgehog Macrocranion, an early long-tailed hedgehog Masillamys, an early rodent
Masillamys at the Senckenberg collection


Messelobunodon, an early artiodactyl Godinotia, a prehistoric lemur or lemur-like prosimian [edit] Birds

Palaeotis, a "proto-ostrich" Strigogyps sapea (formerly Aenigmavis) Messelornis, the Messel-bird; a relative of the sunbittern Masillastega, a freshwater sulid The Messelasturidae, enigmatic carnivorous birds that looked like a mix between owls and hawks Palaeoglaux, a primitive owl with enigmatic breast feathers Paraprefica, an early potoo Masillaraptor, a primitive falcon Parargornis, related to the hummingbirds' ancestors Messelirrisor, tiny hoopoe-like birds Selmes (an anagram of "Messel"), a coliiform with stubby toes Gastornis (formerly Diatryma), a large, flightless predatory bird [edit] Reptiles

Asiatosuchus, a large crocodile Diplocynodon, an alligator Hassiacosuchus, a durophagous crocodile Palaeopython, a snake Cryptolacerta, a lizard with affinities to amphisbaenians Geiseltaliellus, a lizard with affinities to Corytophaninae turtles [edit] Fish


Primitive perch Palaeoperca proxima


A bowfin, variously described as Amia (the modern genus) or Cyclurus Amphiperca, a primitive perch Palaeoperca, another primitive perch Atractosteus, a gar eel [edit] Insects


Fossil jewel beetle, still showing colour of the exoskeleton.


Messel giant ant, a giant species of ant jewel beetle stag beetle rove beetle

 

[Tiberius]

Why aren't there more dinosaur bones?

Because the circumstances that are required for the bones to survive until the present day were very rare, so most of them were lost.

 

[JoeyArnold]

Because the circumstances that are required for the bones to survive until the present day were very rare, so most of them were lost.

If the dinosaurs all died out at the same time, & if decay is constant & consistent with them to some extent, then all of the bones would be decaying at the same time. It does not make sense that some of the bones are getting lucky through lasting longer than the others. All of the bones should be about the same age if they all died out around the same time, that is unless if they all slowly died out one by one over a course of some time.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

If the dinosaurs all died out at the same time, & if decay is constant & consistent with them to some extent, then all of the bones would be decaying at the same time. It does not make sense that some of the bones are getting lucky through lasting longer than the others. All of the bones should be about the same age if they all died out around the same time, that is unless if they all slowly died out one by one over a course of some time.

They died at more or less the same time, but it wasn't a sudden event - it took years - and they didn't die in the same way. Some died in peat bogs, some died in trees, some died in a desert, some died in a forest. These are all different conditions that would affect fossilisation. And to compound it all, the body itself differs: though all reptiles, they had different organs, gut bacteria, bone structure, etc, which affects how readily they fossilise.

More than that, not all dinosaurs died out at the same time. Yes, there was a mass extinction event 65 million years ago, but don't forget that the dinosaurs roamed the Earth for millions of years before that, as well. Dinosuars lived, bred, and died, long before the extinction event. Thus, we should expect to see dinosaur bones covering the full breadth of their existence, from stratum X to stratum Y.

 

[Tiberius]

On paper I suppose.

Does Landru support 65 million years of history?

And you seem to me to be just like one of Landru's followers. Just going about, believing what you are told to believe. You don't care about the truth, you just care about "the Body."

Yes, I'm a Star Trek fan as well, AV...

 

[Tiberius]

If the dinosaurs all died out at the same time, & if decay is constant & consistent with them to some extent, then all of the bones would be decaying at the same time.

But they didn't die out all at the same time. They lived during a period of about 160 million years. They would have been dying off as individuals all during that time. It's not like each and every one of them lived right up until the end of the age of Dinosaurs and then dropped dead all at the same instant.

It does not make sense that some of the bones are getting lucky through lasting longer than the others. All of the bones should be about the same age if they all died out around the same time, that is unless if they all slowly died out one by one over a course of some time.

As I explained above, that is exactly what happened.

Also, bear in mind that some dinosaurs would have been eaten (which would have destroyed the bones), or could have been destroyed by some force. Unless the dinosaur's body went through exactly the right process, the bones are very unlikely to have been fossilised.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, I'm a Star Trek fan as well, AV...

Fascinating.

Are you familiar with 'The Old Man in the Cave' as well?

 

[Tiberius]

Fascinating.

Are you familiar with 'The Old Man in the Cave' as well?

He wrote many of the fictions you believe, didn't he?

 

[AV1611VET]

He wrote many of the fictions you believe, didn't he?

Two Minute Twilight Zone Project -- Season 5, Episode 7 -- The Old Man in the Cave - YouTube

 

[driewerf]

What suggests that Isaiah was speaking about the Arctic Circle? Why not the Equator? Why not the 38th parallel? Why not the tropic of Capricorn?

Hey, AV1611VET, I asked you a question.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hey, AV1611VET, I asked you a question.

Okay ... let's look at it:

What suggests that Isaiah was speaking about the Arctic Circle? Why not the Equator? Why not the 38th parallel? Why not the tropic of Capricorn?

Either way, the earth is round, is it not?

But for the record, I don't believe Isaiah would be referencing the Equator, 38th parallel, or the Tropic of Capricorn.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers;

I find it hard that He would be speaking specifically of those below the equator, not to mention the Tropic of Capricorn.

As far as the 38th parallel, it's just a parallel -- as is the Arctic Circle, as is the Equator, as is the Tropic of Capricorn.

So no matter what latitude He uses: 38N latitude, 0 latitude, or 30S latitude, the point is the same.

The earth is round.

Which one do you think it is?

 

[driewerf]

Okay ... let's look at it:

Either way, the earth is round, is it not?

But for the record, I don't believe Isaiah would be referencing the Equator, 38th parallel, or the Tropic of Capricorn.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers;

I find it hard that He would be speaking specifically of those below the equator, not to mention the Tropic of Capricorn.

As far as the 38th parallel, it's just a parallel -- as is the Arctic Circle, as is the Equator, as is the Tropic of Capricorn.

So no matter what latitude He uses: 38N latitude, 0 latitude, or 30S latitude, the point is the same.

The earth is round.

Which one do you think it is?

What I think about it doesn't matter. I don't care much about what the bible says.
But you have made several times the claim that Isaiah 40:22 is referring to the Arctic circle.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7646799-47/#post60267435
http://www.christianforums.com/t7614012-5/#post59214520
http://www.christianforums.com/t7519826-10/#post56352745
http://www.christianforums.com/t13206-2/#post56183734
http://www.christianforums.com/t7508706-2/#post55972599

Check each of these links. They are all posts of yours where you connect Isaiah 40:22 with the Arctic circle. WHY?

 

[JoeyArnold]

It's not like each and every one of them lived right up until the end of the age of Dinosaurs and then dropped dead all at the same instant.

Can the same be said about humans? If something killed all the humans, what would happen to the bones? Say, volcano eruptions & meteors. Say we were buried alive. It is not like humans all lived until the end of the age of humans & dropped dead all at the same time, right?

 

[keith99]

Fascinating.

Are you familiar with 'The Old Man in the Cave' as well?

The one providing vital guidance like deciding which canned food is safe to eat?

 

[Elendur]

The one providing vital guidance like deciding which canned food is safe to eat?

I don't think he'll be able to answer, he's been quiet for a while. (A bit abrupt, along with his avatar removed)

 

[Tiberius]

Can the same be said about humans? If something killed all the humans, what would happen to the bones? Say, volcano eruptions & meteors. Say we were buried alive. It is not like humans all lived until the end of the age of humans & dropped dead all at the same time, right?

Pretty much.

However, the two situations are a little different. Humans have a huge number of individuals compared to what we expect the population of dinosaurs, giving more chances for fossilization, and Humans also have the habit of burying their dead and protecting them from predators, which further increases the chances for fossilization.

 

[Trogool]

Why aren't there more dinosaur bones?

Because Dinotopia is real, obviously.

Dinotopia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia