When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?

zeke37 · Sep 4, 2013

Jon Anon said:
32 more days

im not saying I agree with you
but do u think the world will recognize him?
or will it be behind the scenes?

I mean, after your allotted 32 days are up,
he should be world wide known right?
will u recant at 33 days if he's not here yet?

Jon Anon said:
Being one of the two witnesses isn't what matters.......what matters is elijah showing up before the day of the lord

imo the day of the Lord does not begin until the last day
everything before Armageddon is not the day of the Lord

which will be russia and china coming against america but the christians are deceived into thinking it is tiny israel.....russia and china are just about to attack us....

think so eh?
I think who ever does anything like that, if ever,
will wait for the money bubble to burst first.

72 days to be exact as elijah should show up when revelation 12 sign happens october 6 2013 and 40 days later russia shows up with nukes

what makes u so sure that the Rev12 sign happens on Oct 6th?
link?

Jon Anon · Sep 4, 2013

zeke37 said:
im not saying I agree with you
but do u think the world will recognize him?
or will it be behind the scenes?

I mean, after your allotted 32 days are up,
he should be world wide known right?
will u recant at 33 days if he's not here yet?

imo the day of the Lord does not begin until the last day
everything before Armageddon is not the day of the Lord

think so eh?
I think who ever does anything like that, if ever,
will wait for the money bubble to burst first.

what makes u so sure that the Rev12 sign happens on Oct 6th?
link?

Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Feast of Tabernacles are the 3 fall feasts but are only rehearsals to the true meaning of the feasts

In the end the true Rosh Hashanah date will happen the day Russia and China attack America(Gods judgement) and the 10 days of awe between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur will actually be 10 years of awe (42 months of Jacobs trouble and then the beginning of the 7 year tribulation for a total of 10 years

Jacob is America and they will be destroyed and taken into captivity for 42 months before the beginning of the 7 year tribulation:

When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?
The first thing we need to determine is when is "The great and terrible day of the lord"?

We know from Malachi 4:5-6:
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse

So we know Elijah comes BEFORE the curse....so before the tribulation starts.

When paul is speaking of 'the day of the lord' in 1 thessalonians 5:3 he says they will be saying peace and safety right before the day of the lord begins so it is a pre-tribulation time that Elijah arrives on the scene because Elijah will be sent "BEFORE" the day of the lord:

1 thessalonians 5:3:
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The next question would be:
How long before the day of the lord does Elijah come to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers and the heart of the fathers to the children?

With television and media sources I would think 40 days would be an ample amount of time for a God sent Elijah to send a message of repentance to the people so let's work with 40 days which in the bible represents time of testing or judgement and the same period of time ninevah received to turn back to God in Jonahs time.

When John the baptist came in the power and spirit of Elijah he came clearing a path for the arrival of messiah(Jesus)

When the last day Elijah comes he will clear a path for the arrival of "the day of the lord" in a time of judgement.

When God brings judgement he brings your enemies against you to deliver the rod of discipline and then later breaks that rod when he is finished using it.

The day of the lord may be the judgement of the united states and the carrying away captive of the small remnant that will survive the judement which will be taken into captivity and through a furnace of affliction made into a holy people

When a moshiach(anointed one) arrives there is a pattern of showing up and then going back into hiding and then reappearing which should be the same thing Elijah will do

examples of anointed ones arriving then going into hiding then reappearing

1. Moses ruler in Egypt then went into desert for 40 years before arriving as deliverer of Hebrew children

2. Eiljah test with the prophets of baal then was afraid of Jezebel and then went into hiding to reappear later

3. Jesus arrived 2000 years ago to be our atonement for sin and after being gone for 2000 years will reappear in the end

4. The final Elijah should appear with a 40 day call to repentance before the judgement and then go into the wilderness just as most all of Gods servants do as even Jesus was 40 days in the wilderness before his beginning of his ministry

The question is what sign will bring forth the final Elijah?

Perhaps the sign of the woman clothed with the sun and moon under her feet of Ocotber 6 2013 will be the sign that brings forth the final Elijah with a 40 day call to repentance before the great and terrible day of the lord:

The next thing we need to look at is the misconception that the tribulation period is only 7 years long when revelation 2:10 states you will have tribulation 10 days which represent 10 years:
Rev 2:10:
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer : behold , the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried ; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

There is a time known as Jacobs trouble and people automatically throw this time period in with the 7 year tribulation when actually it should be 42 months prior and separate to the 7 year tribulation bringing the total tribulation to 10 days(years) as stated in Rev 2:10

This time period will coincide with the fulfillment of the 3 fall feasts that need to be fulfilled:

1. Feast of trumpets(Day of the lord)
2. Feast of Yom Kippur(10 days later) representing 10 years
3. Feast of Tabernacles(1000 year millinium)

The time period between Feast of trumpet and Yom kippur are known as 10 days of awe but in actuality they will be 10 years of awe and will end with the death of the two witnesses being the official day of atonement(Yom kippur) as the tishri 1-10 are merely rehearsals to the true fulfillment of the fall feast which could not be celebrated with as much rememberance if they were celebrated with the true 10 years of awe so just 10 days of awe between feast of trumpets and yom kippur are celebrated each year to keep those fall feasts in rememberance

So when the judgement of America comes it will be considered the true Feast of trumpets date and possibly it will be 40 days after the final Elijah shows up which could be October 6 2013. The true yom kippur date will be the final day of the two witnesses testimony and death

Jon Anon · Sep 4, 2013

Jon Anon said:
Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Feast of Tabernacles are the 3 fall feasts but are only rehearsals to the true meaning of the feasts

In the end the true Rosh Hashanah date will happen the day Russia and China attack America(Gods judgement) and the 10 days of awe between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur will actually be 10 years of awe (42 months of Jacobs trouble and then the beginning of the 7 year tribulation for a total of 10 years

Jacob is America and they will be destroyed and taken into captivity for 42 months before the beginning of the 7 year tribulation:

When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?
The first thing we need to determine is when is "The great and terrible day of the lord"?

We know from Malachi 4:5-6:
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse

So we know Elijah comes BEFORE the curse....so before the tribulation starts.

When paul is speaking of 'the day of the lord' in 1 thessalonians 5:3 he says they will be saying peace and safety right before the day of the lord begins so it is a pre-tribulation time that Elijah arrives on the scene because Elijah will be sent "BEFORE" the day of the lord:

1 thessalonians 5:3:
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The next question would be:
How long before the day of the lord does Elijah come to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers and the heart of the fathers to the children?

With television and media sources I would think 40 days would be an ample amount of time for a God sent Elijah to send a message of repentance to the people so let's work with 40 days which in the bible represents time of testing or judgement and the same period of time ninevah received to turn back to God in Jonahs time.

When John the baptist came in the power and spirit of Elijah he came clearing a path for the arrival of messiah(Jesus)

When the last day Elijah comes he will clear a path for the arrival of "the day of the lord" in a time of judgement.

When God brings judgement he brings your enemies against you to deliver the rod of discipline and then later breaks that rod when he is finished using it.

The day of the lord may be the judgement of the united states and the carrying away captive of the small remnant that will survive the judement which will be taken into captivity and through a furnace of affliction made into a holy people

When a moshiach(anointed one) arrives there is a pattern of showing up and then going back into hiding and then reappearing which should be the same thing Elijah will do

examples of anointed ones arriving then going into hiding then reappearing

1. Moses ruler in Egypt then went into desert for 40 years before arriving as deliverer of Hebrew children

2. Eiljah test with the prophets of baal then was afraid of Jezebel and then went into hiding to reappear later

3. Jesus arrived 2000 years ago to be our atonement for sin and after being gone for 2000 years will reappear in the end

4. The final Elijah should appear with a 40 day call to repentance before the judgement and then go into the wilderness just as most all of Gods servants do as even Jesus was 40 days in the wilderness before his beginning of his ministry

The question is what sign will bring forth the final Elijah?

Perhaps the sign of the woman clothed with the sun and moon under her feet of Ocotber 6 2013 will be the sign that brings forth the final Elijah with a 40 day call to repentance before the great and terrible day of the lord:

The next thing we need to look at is the misconception that the tribulation period is only 7 years long when revelation 2:10 states you will have tribulation 10 days which represent 10 years:
Rev 2:10:
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer : behold , the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried ; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

There is a time known as Jacobs trouble and people automatically throw this time period in with the 7 year tribulation when actually it should be 42 months prior and separate to the 7 year tribulation bringing the total tribulation to 10 days(years) as stated in Rev 2:10

This time period will coincide with the fulfillment of the 3 fall feasts that need to be fulfilled:

1. Feast of trumpets(Day of the lord)
2. Feast of Yom Kippur(10 days later) representing 10 years
3. Feast of Tabernacles(1000 year millinium)

The time period between Feast of trumpet and Yom kippur are known as 10 days of awe but in actuality they will be 10 years of awe and will end with the death of the two witnesses being the official day of atonement(Yom kippur) as the tishri 1-10 are merely rehearsals to the true fulfillment of the fall feast which could not be celebrated with as much rememberance if they were celebrated with the true 10 years of awe so just 10 days of awe between feast of trumpets and yom kippur are celebrated each year to keep those fall feasts in rememberance

So when the judgement of America comes it will be considered the true Feast of trumpets date and possibly it will be 40 days after the final Elijah shows up which could be October 6 2013. The true yom kippur date will be the final day of the two witnesses testimony and death

Something Big - John Waller - YouTube

Bible2 · Sep 5, 2013

zeke37 said in post 161:

imo the day of the Lord does not begin until the last day
everything before Armageddon is not the day of the Lord

That's right, if by Armageddon you mean Jesus' 2nd coming. For the day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at the Lord Jesus Christ's 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, "immediately after" the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8), which is when the rapture will occur (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Bible2 · Sep 5, 2013

Jon Anon said in post 162:

When paul is speaking of 'the day of the lord' in 1 thessalonians 5:3 he says they will be saying peace and safety right before the day of the lord begins so it is a pre-tribulation time that Elijah arrives on the scene because Elijah will be sent "BEFORE" the day of the lord:

1 thessalonians 5:3:
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 could include reference to when, near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, at the two witnesses' death at the legal end of the Antichrist's 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 11:8,15, Revelation 13:5-18), the unsaved world will rejoice and make merry, because it will then be free from the tormenting plagues from the two witnesses (Revelation 11:10,6). But little will the unsaved world realize that the plagues of the 7 vials of God's judgment and wrath will then be poured out upon it (Revelation 16). And then Jesus will return and bring the 2nd-coming judgment and wrath of God (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3).

The unsaved people of the world will have no idea that most of them are going to be killed at Jesus' 2nd coming until it happens (Matthew 24:37-39). For they could think that the 2nd coming had already occurred with the coming into power of the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20), who could claim to be Jesus returned. And just as the people of the world shortly before Noah's flood, even though they could see or hear about Noah building his huge ark, no doubt rejected the idea that YHWH had the power to actually cause a global flood which would kill them, so the people of the world at the end of the future tribulation could reject the idea that YHWH has the power to actually defeat them.

For during the tribulation's 2nd half, the world will see the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and his fallen angels (Revelation 12:9), and the power Lucifer will give to the Antichrist to take over the entire earth (Revelation 13:4-8), and to utterly revile YHWH year after year without being destroyed (Revelation 13:5-6, Daniel 11:36), and to physically overcome and kill people in the church in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). And the world will see the amazing miraculous powers that Lucifer will give to the Antichrist's False Prophet, by which he will be able to even call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone (Revelation 13:13, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

And near the end of the future tribulation, the world will see the Antichrist's defeat of YHWH's amazingly-powerful two witnesses (Revelation 11:3-9), after which defeat the world will rejoice and make merry and send gifts to each other because the two witnesses had been sending plagues on the world (Revelation 11:10,6). And even though those plagues will be shortly followed by even more plagues from YHWH, poured out directly from heaven (Revelation 16, the tribulation's final stage), the people of the world won't lose their confidence that YHWH can still be defeated. For after almost all of the plagues from heaven are over, the world will see the amazing miraculous powers of some unclean spirits, convincing the world's armies to gather together for a battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:13-14, Revelation 19:19). And so the world could come to that battle at the very end of the tribulation with the same careless attitude as some people at the start of the American Civil War, who held picnics at the expected first battleground of Bull Run/Manassas to watch the battle and what they expected to be a quick and easy victory.

Jon Anon said in post 162:

The next thing we need to look at is the misconception that the tribulation period is only 7 years long when revelation 2:10 states you will have tribulation 10 days which represent 10 years:
Rev 2:10:
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer : behold , the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried ; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

The 10 days of Revelation 2:10 can be 10 literal days that already happened in ancient times, just as Revelation 3:10 already happened in ancient times.

The 7 epistles to 7 churches in Revelation chapters 2-3 were sent to 7 literal, first century AD local church congregations in 7 cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) (what's today western Turkey).

Revelation 3:10 meant that the literal, first century AD local church congregation in the city of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) would be kept safe from a persecution which came upon all the Roman world during the time of the Roman emperor Domitian. For the apostle John saw his Revelation vision (Revelation 1:1) near the end of Domitian's reign (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), and Domitian persecuted the church toward the end of his reign. The righteous, literal, first century AD local church congregation in the city of Smyrna (Revelation 2:8) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) had to suffer and die in that persecution over a period of 10 literal days (Revelation 2:10).

Jon Anon said in post 162:

There is a time known as Jacobs trouble and people automatically throw this time period in with the 7 year tribulation when actually it should be 42 months prior and separate to the 7 year tribulation bringing the total tribulation to 10 days(years) as stated in Rev 2:10

The time of Jacob's trouble which he will be saved out of (Jeremiah 30:7) won't be prior to the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, but will be only the final pillaging of the Jews in Jerusalem at the very end of the tribulation, right before Jesus returns and saves them (Zechariah 14:2-5). Also, the church, including Gentile believers (Revelation 7:9,14), will be in the tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6).

zeke37 · Sep 6, 2013

Jon Anon said:
Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Feast of Tabernacles are the 3 fall feasts but are only rehearsals to the true meaning of the feasts

I agree.

In the end the true Rosh Hashanah date will happen the day Russia and China attack America(Gods judgement)

well, the date will be the biblical calendar date of that years Feast of Trumpets
the current day Jewish calendar is off, not the same as the biblical one.

and the 10 days of awe between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur will actually be 10 years of awe (42 months of Jacobs trouble and then the beginning of the 7 year tribulation for a total of 10 years

I disagree with u there.
I really think it will be a literal 10 days,
because that is how the Lord did things while fulfilling the spring feasts of the Lord.
right to the day and hour, literally.

Jacob is America and they will be destroyed and taken into captivity for 42 months before the beginning of the 7 year tribulation:

many scholars believe that America and GB are descended from Joseph's two sons
for example, Jacob would be referencing prob all of Europe and the scattered abroad
while Joseph references the Americas and GB in specific

When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?
The first thing we need to determine is when is "The great and terrible day of the lord"?

We know from Malachi 4:5-6:
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse

So we know Elijah comes BEFORE the curse....so before the tribulation starts.

well, we know he comes before the wrath.
but the wrath of God is NOT the trib...it follows the trib

When paul is speaking of 'the day of the lord' in 1 thessalonians 5:3 he says they will be saying peace and safety right before the day of the lord begins so it is a pre-tribulation time that Elijah arrives on the scene because Elijah will be sent "BEFORE" the day of the lord:

1 thessalonians 5:3:
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

it doesn't necessarily mean pre trib,
because during the trib,
folks will still think things are all good
progress etc.
they are a part of the system...so all is good to them

The next question would be:
How long before the day of the lord does Elijah come to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers and the heart of the fathers to the children?

With television and media sources I would think 40 days would be an ample amount of time for a God sent Elijah to send a message of repentance to the people so let's work with 40 days which in the bible represents time of testing or judgement and the same period of time ninevah received to turn back to God in Jonahs time.

ok, but it would be 40 days before Christ's return,
which would be during the trib, but before the wrath
since the wrath doesn't begin until Christ Comes after/post/last day of the trib

When John the baptist came in the power and spirit of Elijah he came clearing a path for the arrival of messiah(Jesus)

When the last day Elijah comes he will clear a path for the arrival of "the day of the lord" in a time of judgement.

not in a time, but rather FOR a time.
he's heralding Christ's soon Coming

When God brings judgement he brings your enemies against you to deliver the rod of discipline and then later breaks that rod when he is finished using it.

The day of the lord may be the judgement of the united states and the carrying away captive of the small remnant that will survive the judement which will be taken into captivity and through a furnace of affliction made into a holy people

so our difference is that
I believe the day of the Lord directly follows the trib
and you believe it is the trib

When a moshiach(anointed one) arrives there is a pattern of showing up and then going back into hiding and then reappearing which should be the same thing Elijah will do

examples of anointed ones arriving then going into hiding then reappearing

1. Moses ruler in Egypt then went into desert for 40 years before arriving as deliverer of Hebrew children

2. Eiljah test with the prophets of baal then was afraid of Jezebel and then went into hiding to reappear later

3. Jesus arrived 2000 years ago to be our atonement for sin and after being gone for 2000 years will reappear in the end

4. The final Elijah should appear with a 40 day call to repentance before the judgement and then go into the wilderness just as most all of Gods servants do as even Jesus was 40 days in the wilderness before his beginning of his ministry

scripture says that they witness right up till 3 days before the 7th trump
and even for the same length of time that the best is allotted 1260 days/42 months

The question is what sign will bring forth the final Elijah?

Perhaps the sign of the woman clothed with the sun and moon under her feet of Ocotber 6 2013 will be the sign that brings forth the final Elijah with a 40 day call to repentance before the great and terrible day of the lord:

ya well, I asked for a link to this info.
lately on youtube, there's about 5 major dates
set for that star sign to supposedly occur on.

The next thing we need to look at is the misconception that the tribulation period is only 7 years long when revelation 2:10 states you will have tribulation 10 days which represent 10 years:
Rev 2:10:
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer : behold , the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried ; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

same 10 days of awe, but prob literal days, like how His 1st Coming was fulfilled.

There is a time known as Jacobs trouble and people automatically throw this time period in with the 7 year tribulation when actually it should be 42 months prior and separate to the 7 year tribulation bringing the total tribulation to 10 days(years) as stated in Rev 2:10

that'd be 10.5

This time period will coincide with the fulfillment of the 3 fall feasts that need to be fulfilled:

how? they are all going to be fulfilled in one season,
just like the spring feasts of the Lord were.

1. Feast of trumpets(Day of the lord)

everything before that was NOT the day of the Lord

2. Feast of Yom Kippur(10 days later) representing 10 years

10 literal days between that Feast of Trumpets and Fest of Atonement

3. Feast of Tabernacles(1000 year millinium)

3 days after Atonement, the Mill begins

The time period between Feast of trumpet and Yom kippur are known as 10 days of awe but in actuality they will be 10 years of awe and will end with the death of the two witnesses being the official day of atonement(Yom kippur)

in my view the 2 witnesses die, near the end of the trib
and they rise at the 7th trump, which is the Feast of Trumpets
and also His return
and that begins the 10 literal days of Awe
which is His wrath

as the tishri 1-10 are merely rehearsals to the true fulfillment of the fall feast which could not be celebrated with as much rememberance if they were celebrated with the true 10 years of awe so just 10 days of awe between feast of trumpets and yom kippur are celebrated each year to keep those fall feasts in rememberance

no precedence for that
Christ fulfilled the Spring feasts right to the day and hour,
not by 10 year periods

So when the judgement of America comes it will be considered the true Feast of trumpets date and possibly it will be 40 days after the final Elijah shows up which could be October 6 2013. The true yom kippur date will be the final day of the two witnesses testimony and death

[/quote]
why oct 6th? the jewish calendar is off, easily prove biblically.
do u think that is when yom kippur date is going to be this year?
you do realize that BIBLICALLY it is impossible to know any feast day
in advance of more than the month it's in, right?

Jon Anon · Sep 6, 2013

zeke37 said:
I agree.

well, the date will be the biblical calendar date of that years Feast of Trumpets
the current day Jewish calendar is off, not the same as the biblical one.

I disagree with u there.
I really think it will be a literal 10 days,
because that is how the Lord did things while fulfilling the spring feasts of the Lord.
right to the day and hour, literally.

many scholars believe that America and GB are descended from Joseph's two sons
for example, Jacob would be referencing prob all of Europe and the scattered abroad
while Joseph references the Americas and GB in specific

well, we know he comes before the wrath.
but the wrath of God is NOT the trib...it follows the trib

it doesn't necessarily mean pre trib,
because during the trib,
folks will still think things are all good
progress etc.
they are a part of the system...so all is good to them

ok, but it would be 40 days before Christ's return,
which would be during the trib, but before the wrath
since the wrath doesn't begin until Christ Comes after/post/last day of the trib

not in a time, but rather FOR a time.
he's heralding Christ's soon Coming

so our difference is that
I believe the day of the Lord directly follows the trib
and you believe it is the trib

scripture says that they witness right up till 3 days before the 7th trump
and even for the same length of time that the best is allotted 1260 days/42 months

ya well, I asked for a link to this info.
lately on youtube, there's about 5 major dates
set for that star sign to supposedly occur on.

same 10 days of awe, but prob literal days, like how His 1st Coming was fulfilled.

that'd be 10.5

how? they are all going to be fulfilled in one season,
just like the spring feasts of the Lord were.

everything before that was NOT the day of the Lord

10 literal days between that Feast of Trumpets and Fest of Atonement

3 days after Atonement, the Mill begins

in my view the 2 witnesses die, near the end of the trib
and they rise at the 7th trump, which is the Feast of Trumpets
and also His return
and that begins the 10 literal days of Awe
which is His wrath

no precedence for that
Christ fulfilled the Spring feasts right to the day and hour,
not by 10 year periods

why oct 6th? the jewish calendar is off, easily prove biblically.
do u think that is when yom kippur date is going to be this year?
you do realize that BIBLICALLY it is impossible to know any feast day
in advance of more than the month it's in, right?[/QUOTE]

Posting from phone so can't post much right now

The spring feast were for salvation
The fall feasts are for judgement

Judgement will last 10 years not just 10 days

The fall feasts are just rehearsals to the true 10 year endtime events

I believe this rosh hashanah was the last rehears and the true rosh hashanah date will begin november 14/15 2013 because that is 40 days after the revelation 12 sign of the woman clothed ith the sun october 6 2013and arrival of elijah with a 40 day call to repentance

Jon Anon · Sep 7, 2013

29 days:

Bible2 · Sep 7, 2013

zeke37 said in post 166:

scripture says that they witness right up till 3 days before the 7th trump
and even for the same length of time that the best is allotted 1260 days/42 months

Good point.

In Revelation 11:3-12, the two witnesses could be Moses and Elijah. For the two men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4. the "two olive trees" refer back to the two men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the transfiguration. Also, the plagues that the two witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues that Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14). Elijah never died, but was taken bodily into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And Michael retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated back to mortal life, like, for example, Lazarus' dead body was resuscitated back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could appear alive and well at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The two witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the future, literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b,3,6) of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That's why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the two witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues that they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the tribulation's 2nd woe/6th trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). They will be taken up to heaven before the tribulation's 7th trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8), for the original Greek word (martus, G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason that there will be two witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because two witnesses are required to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the two "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).

zeke37 said in post 166:

in my view the 2 witnesses die, near the end of the trib
and they rise at the 7th trump, which is the Feast of Trumpets
and also His return

Regarding the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), note that it doesn't refer to any return of Jesus. Instead, Revelation 11:15 refers to the future point in time (Revelation 4:1b) when Jesus will take ultimate, legal, physical authority over the earth, away from Satan (cf. Luke 4:5-7) and Satan's fallen angels (Ephesians 6:12), and away from the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:4-18, cf. Revelation 12:9) and the Antichrist's 10 kings (Revelation 17:12-13). It won't be until a little later that Jesus will take de facto, physical control of the earth at his 2nd coming and during the subsequent millennium (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6).

Jesus' 2nd coming won't occur immediately after the sounding of the tribulation's 7th trumpet and the declaration of the legal replacement of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5 year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 12:6,14) with Jesus' reign (Revelation 11:15). For a "time" (Revelation 11:18) can last awhile (cf. Revelation 12:14). (It's like if someone said "It's time to sell this house"; this doesn't mean that it will get sold immediately.) The only part of Revelation 11:18 that will happen immediately after the 7th trumpet sounds is "thy wrath is come", for the plagues of the vials (Revelation 16), the tribulation's final stage, will come out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1).

So the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), even though it will be the last trumpet to sound during the tribulation, won't be the resurrection "last trump" of 1 Corinthians 15:52. The latter won't sound until after the entire tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 is over, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), which won't occur until Revelation 19, and which is when the church will be resurrected (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

Before the 2nd coming, the tribulation's final, Revelation 16 stage could last for 75 days. For the first vial in Revelation 16 could be poured out immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign, which 1,260 days could begin when the abomination of desolation (possibly an android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36). And Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the setting up of the abomination of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). An analogy for the possible 75-day vials-delay between Jesus taking legal possession of the earth (Revelation 11:15) and his return to take de facto, physical possession of it (Revelation chapters 19-20) would be someone in New York legally inheriting a house in California 75 days before he moves there to live in that house.

At Jesus' 2nd coming, he will resurrect and judge only the church (1 Corinthians 15:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Psalms 50:3-6, cf. Mark 13:27), and then he will marry the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12). Then Revelation 19:11-21 will occur. So both the resurrection and the rewarding of the church spoken of in Revelation 11:18, as well as the destroying of the destroyers of the earth spoken of in Revelation 11:18, could occur 75 days after the 7th trumpet's sounding. And because a "time" can last awhile (cf. Revelation 12:14), this would still be well within the "time" referred to in Revelation 11:18.

Everyone not resurrected and judged at Jesus' 2nd coming won't be resurrected and judged until Revelation 20:11-15, which won't occur until sometime after the returned Jesus and the bodily resurrected church have reigned on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). Both resurrections and judgments can still occur within Revelation 11:18's "time". For the original Greek word (kairos, G2540) translated there as "time" can refer to even quite a long period. For example, the same Greek word is used in 2 Corinthians 6:2 to refer to the "time" of people getting saved, which has been going on for some 2,000 years.

zeke37 · Sep 9, 2013

Bible2 said:
Regarding the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), note that it doesn't refer to any return of Jesus.

sure it does. it's the time of the dead. the last day.
see 1Thes4's raising of the dead in Christ

the 7th trump is specifically a reference for the Messiah's Coming.
that is what the festival is a rehearsal for. Judaism 101.

Instead, Revelation 11:15 refers to the future point in time (Revelation 4:1b) when Jesus will take ultimate, legal, physical authority over the earth, away from Satan (cf. Luke 4:5-7) and Satan's fallen angels (Ephesians 6:12), and away from the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:4-18, cf. Revelation 12:9) and the Antichrist's 10 kings (Revelation 17:12-13). It won't be until a little later that Jesus will take de facto, physical control of the earth at his 2nd coming and during the subsequent millennium (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6).

well, we see things differently.
Rev repeats certain time frames from different perspectives

So the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15-19), even though it will be the last trumpet to sound during the tribulation, won't be the resurrection "last trump" of 1 Corinthians 15:52.

of course it is
righteous dead are raised, we are changed.

The latter won't sound until after the entire tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 is over, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-31;

Rev repeats certain timeframe from different angles.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-16), which won't occur until Revelation 19, and which is when the church will be resurrected (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

that time lines up with the 7th trump as well.

Before the 2nd coming, the tribulation's final, Revelation 16 stage could last for 75 days.

could be....the wrath of God is poured out by Christ at His Coming.
so if there is mention of the wrath of God in Rev,
then Christ is here and the dead are raised
regardless of what angle we are currently reading about.

For the first vial in Revelation 16 could be poured out immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign, which 1,260 days could begin when the abomination of desolation (possibly an android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36). And Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the setting up of the abomination of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). An analogy for the possible 75-day vials-delay between Jesus taking legal possession of the earth (Revelation 11:15) and his return to take de facto, physical possession of it (Revelation chapters 19-20) would be someone in New York legally inheriting a house in California 75 days before he moves there to live in that house.

or more probably, He returns to pour the wrath, at the end of the trib

imo the wrath begins during the 10 days of awe
but we are already gathered to Him on day 1 of it
that's what the feast of trumpets is a practice for.

He laves heaven to come here
Rev19, Christ is leaving heaven with His armies
still having the wrath of God with Him

then He is seen by men, Coming in the clouds of heaven
Rev6, declaration made by men
that the day of the Lord and His wrath is come,
as they see the signs in the heavens, and hide from His Coming and His coming wrath

then it is time....
Rev11, 7th trump declares wrath time and the time of the dead
reward and punishment

then Rev14 shows Christ with those He has gathered
and also shows the rest being readied for the wrath of God's winepress

then Rev16 shows wrath actually poured out, detailed

Rev18 shows Babylon first falls, then the final plagues come

so if we just follow the term wrath of God or it's facsimiles,
then we can start to build a pretty good timeline.

At Jesus' 2nd coming, he will resurrect and judge only the church (1 Corinthians 15:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Psalms 50:3-6, cf. Mark 13:27), and then he will marry the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12).

well, Rev11's 7th trump is His Coming,
and it says that it is the time of the dead
and that it is also time for reward and punishment

Time Watcher · Sep 9, 2013

Response to the OP

Elijah has already come according to the Lord .... this was John the Baptist

Elijah of the OT is sleeping in death and will be resurrected as one of the Lord's ecclesia at His coming

.... the great and terrible day of the Lord is still pending

And so is John the Baptist waiting

No man has gone to heaven except the One who has come down from heaven

Bible2 · Sep 10, 2013

zeke37 said in post 170:

Rev19, Christ is leaving heaven with His armies

In Revelation 19:14, the original Greek word (ouranos, G3772) translated as "heaven" can refer to the "sky" (Matthew 16:2-3, Luke 12:56), which will be the location of the literal clouds and air of 1 Thessalonians 4:17. Revelation 19:14 refers to the already immortally-resurrected (if dead) or changed (if alive) (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) and married obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7) descending with Jesus from the sky (the first heaven), where the church had been raptured to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus at his 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

zeke37 said in post 170:

Rev6, declaration made by men
that the day of the Lord and His wrath is come,
as they see the signs in the heavens, and hide from His Coming and His coming wrath

Regarding "the signs in the heavens", Revelation 6:12-13 and Matthew 24:29-31 are two different sets of events. For Revelation 6:12-13 will occur during only the first stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, whereas Matthew 24:29-31 (like Revelation 19:7-21, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) will occur immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29). Also, when Revelation 6:12-13 occurs, the moon's light will appear blood-red, whereas when Matthew 24:29 occurs, the moon's light won't be seen at all. There will also be one point between the time of Revelation 6:12-13 and the time of Matthew 24:29 when the moon's light temporarily won't be seen at all, during 1/3 of the night (Revelation 8:12).

Also, the sun appearing to be darkened in Revelation 6:12-13 will be only the first time during the tribulation that something like that will happen. For it will happen again during the 4th trumpet (part of the tribulation's 2nd stage), for 1/3 of the day (Revelation 8:12), and then again during the 5th trumpet (Revelation 9:2), and then again during the 5th vial (Revelation 16:10), part of the tribulation's 4th and final stage, the 3rd stage being the literal 3.5-year time period of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14). Also, what will appear like "stars" falling from the sky in Revelation 6:12-13 will be only the first time during the tribulation that something like that will happen. For subsequently, during the 3rd trumpet, what will appear like a star will fall from the sky (Revelation 8:10-11), and then again during the 5th trumpet (Revelation 9:1). And then again, mid-tribulation, what will appear like stars will descend from the sky (Revelation 12:4).

-

Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are chronological, insofar as the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the 2nd through 6th seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the 6th seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the 7th seal will be unsealed and out of it will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first 6 trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).

Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus will return right after the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), and he will marry the church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then he will defeat the unsaved world (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3), and reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.

zeke37 said in post 170:

Rev6, declaration made by men
that the day of the Lord and His wrath is come,
as they see the signs in the heavens, and hide from His Coming and His coming wrath

The 6th seal (Revelation 6:12-14) could be fulfilled in our future by a huge volcanic eruption (possibly of the Yellowstone Caldera) which will occur during only the first stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This eruption could begin with a large earthquake (Revelation 6:12), signaling the sudden rising of magma within the volcano. When it erupts, it could shoot so much ash and smoke into the sky that the sun will appear darkened and the moon blood-red (Revelation 6:12b), like happens during large forest fires. The volcano could also shoot blobs of red-hot magma into the sky, which as they fall back down could appear like falling stars (Revelation 6:13). And it could shoot so much super-heated ash and smoke so high and so quickly into the sky that they could form a gigantic mushroom cloud which will make the sky (the first heaven) look like a scroll being rolled up (Revelation 6:14). Earthquakes connected with the eruption could be so large that they set off a chain reaction of other earthquakes in nearby faults and volcanoes, which could set off even more earthquakes further away, and so on, so that earthquakes will end up affecting every mountain and island, moving each of their positions at least a little bit (Revelation 6:14b).

zeke37 said in post 170:

Rev6, declaration made by men
that the day of the Lord and His wrath is come,
as they see the signs in the heavens, and hide from His Coming and His coming wrath

Regarding "the day of the Lord and His wrath is come", the tribulation's 6th seal (Revelation 6:12-14) will happen sometime before the day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, Revelation 6:12), whereas the day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at his 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't happen until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). Similarly, the day of the Lord's wrath (Psalms 110:5) won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19-21).

So the people quoted at the 6th seal (Revelation 6:17), during only the first stage of the tribulation, could be just as mistaken as Job was when Job said that what was happening to him was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11). Just as what was happening to Job was actually Satan's wrath against him, not God's wrath, so the 6th seal could actually be Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. And just as the writer of the book of Job didn't go out of his way to correct Job's mistaken statement in Job 19:11, and just as the apostles John and Matthew didn't go out of their ways to correct the mistaken statements of the people they quoted in John 7:12b and Matthew 27:63a, so the apostle John could have not gone out of his way to correct the statement of the people he quoted in Revelation 6:17.

After the tribulation's 6th seal will occur its 7th seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come its 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). Note that nothing requires that any of the first 6 trumpets' events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will be God's wrath. The 5th trumpet's events will be the work of weird locust-like beings from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:2-10) led by a fallen angel from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:11). And the 6th trumpet's events to the end of Revelation 9 will be the work of weird horse-like beings led by 4 fallen angels previously bound at the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14-19). So even though good angels of God will sound the first 6 trumpets, this could be announcing God's allowing the wrath of Satan to destroy 1/3 of different things (Revelation 8:7-12, Revelation 9:15,18), just as Satan will subsequently, mid-tribulation, be allowed by God to cause 1/3 of the angels (i.e. his fallen angels) to be cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:4,9).

Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will happen before the Antichrist's (the individual-man aspect of the beast's) future, literal 3.5-year worldwide Luciferian/Satanic reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). And the events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 could be used by Satan to help prepare the world to welcome that reign. For what he could do is first take great pleasure in causing the destruction in each event, but then claim that the destruction isn't from him, but from YHWH, and that YHWH is a cruel tyrant god who hates mankind and only wants to make it suffer, while he (Satan, as "Lucifer") only wants the best for mankind (cf. Mark 8:33b). In this way, he could deceive the world into turning away from YHWH and instead worshipping him (the dragon) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

After the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year reign (Revelation 13:5-7) is declared legally over at the sounding of the tribulation's 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath will come out of the heavenly-temple opening of the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). The vials will then be poured out on the Antichrist's followers as God's judgment for their receiving the Antichrist's mark and worshipping his image (Revelation 16:2), and for their killing of people in the church (Revelation 16:6-7, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

During the Antichrist's worldwide reign, people in the church will be hated and killed in every nation for refusing to renounce the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the witness of Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:4), for refusing to accept the antichrist lies that Jesus himself isn't the Christ (1 John 2:22), and that Christ himself isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the sound doctrine of the Bible, the Word of God (Revelation 20:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), for refusing to depart from the Biblical faith and give heed instead to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1-2). They will be beheaded for refusing to worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 20:4, Revelation 13:15). And all of this will be Satan's wrath against the church (Revelation 12:17), not God's wrath, for the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

Even when God's wrath comes in the 7 vials (Revelation 16), the tribulation's final stage, because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of the vials will be directed at any of those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have prepared for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had prepared for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:11,13).

Jesus will return right after the 7th and last vial is completed (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21, Matthew 24:29-30), and he will bring the 2nd-coming wrath of God on the unsaved world (Revelation 19:15-21). But before that 2nd-coming wrath begins, the church will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31) into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

zeke37 said in post 170:

then Rev14 shows Christ with those He has gathered
and also shows the rest being readied for the wrath of God's winepress

Revelation 14:14-16 refers to Jesus sitting on a single cloud in the 3rd heaven and reaping into the 3rd heaven (beginning mid-tribulation) the souls of those in the church who will be killed (Revelation 14:13) by the Antichrist during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18) (during the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24). They will be killed for refusing to worship the Antichrist and his image, and refusing to receive his mark (Revelation 14:9-16, cf. Revelation 15:2, Revelation 20:4-6).

Revelation 14:19-20 can refer to the Antichrist's killing of non-Christians who won't worship him (such as radical Muslims, ultra-Orthodox Jews, hardcore atheists, etc.) being God's wrath against those non-Christians. Revelation 14:20 could refer to when they get beheaded by the Antichrist, their blood will shoot up from their necks like a geyser as high as a horse's bridle. Also, in Revelation 14:20, the city could be Jerusalem, and the 1,600 furlongs is about 200 miles, so that Revelation 14:19-20 could mean that the Antichrist's beheading of people who won't worship him will begin at Jerusalem and the surrounding region, when he sits (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

But when the Antichrist beheads Christians for not worshipping him (Revelation 20:4), this won't be God's wrath against those Christians, but Satan's wrath against them (Revelation 12:17).

Bible2 · Sep 10, 2013

Time Watcher said in post 171:

Elijah has already come according to the Lord .... this was John the Baptist

Matthew 17:10-13 can be understood as referring to two different comings of Elijah, the first being John the Baptist's coming "in the spirit and power of Elijah" (Luke 1:17, Matthew 17:12-13), and the 2nd being a still-future physical coming-back of Elijah himself, when he will restore all things (Matthew 17:11), in the sense of restoring all true doctrine, i.e. all true interpretation of the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16), to the church. This still-future, physical coming-back of Elijah himself could occur at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 11:3-12).

Time Watcher said in post 171:

Elijah of the OT is sleeping in death and will be resurrected as one of the Lord's ecclesia at His coming

Elijah never died, but was taken bodily into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b).

Time Watcher said in post 171:

Elijah of the OT is sleeping in death and will be resurrected as one of the Lord's ecclesia at His coming

Are you referring to the idea of "soul sleep"? If so, only the physical bodies of the dead in their graves are euphemistically "asleep" (1 Thessalonians 4:13; 1 Corinthians 15:18,51). And only their dead, physical brains are without any thoughts (Ecclesiastes 9:5, Psalms 6:5, Psalms 115:17, Isaiah 38:18a). For the soul is distinct from the body (1 Thessalonians 5:23). And the soul can remain alive even when the body is dead (Matthew 10:28a). And the soul can remain conscious outside of the body, whether the body is still alive (2 Corinthians 12:2-4) or has died (Revelation 6:9-10).

So the souls of the dead remain conscious, either in heaven with Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43,46, Acts 3:21) or in fiery punishment in Hades (Luke 16:22-24). At Jesus' 2nd coming, he will bring with him from heaven all the souls of all obedient believers who have ever died (1 Thessalonians 4:14). And they will descend to the earth where the graves of their bodies are, and their bodies will be resurrected into immortality at that time (1 Thessalonians 4:16; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-53, Revelation 20:4-6).

Sometime after the subsequent millennium and Gog/Magog rebellion are over (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), the souls in Hades will be bodily resurrected, judged, and cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:12-15), which will be the 2nd death (Revelation 21:8). This will be the death of both their resurrected bodies and their souls (Matthew 10:28). And yet, even though they will be dead in both body and soul, their spirits, which are distinct from their bodies and souls (1 Thessalonians 5:23), will remain conscious, and will be tormented along with the spirits of Satan and his fallen angels forever (Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11, Matthew 25:41,46, Mark 9:45b-46, Isaiah 66:24).

Time Watcher said in post 171:

No man has gone to heaven except the One who has come down from heaven

John 3:13 means that no man but Jesus had ascended into heaven in a way that involved his own power. For Elijah had ascended into heaven, but by an external power (2 Kings 2:11). And if he did that, then Enoch and Moses could have also ascended into heaven by an external power (Hebrews 11:5, Genesis 5:24, Jude 1:9). In John 3:13, "ascended" is in the active voice, which, while it doesn't require that the subject ascended by his own power, it can mean that. For example, compare Jesus "rising up" in Luke 22:45.

zeke37 · Sep 10, 2013

Bible2 said:
Revelation 19:14 refers to the already immortally-resurrected (if dead) or changed (if alive) (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) and married obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7) descending with Jesus from the sky (the first heaven), where the church had been raptured to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus at his 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

na, in Rev19, He's leaving with the dead in Christ (His armies)
and coming here to get the bride and have supper
and I really don't believe the meeting in the air part

it makes more sense that 1Thes4 is mirroring 1Cor15
and thus the words air=spirit, clouds=mass multitude/clouds of heaven

there is no meeting in the literal atmosphere in any other biblical passage,
but meeting the clouds of heaven right here is another thing

Regarding "the signs in the heavens", Revelation 6:12-13 and Matthew 24:29-31 are two different sets of events. For Revelation 6:12-13 will occur during only the first stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, whereas Matthew 24:29-31 (like Revelation 19:7-21, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) will occur immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29).

you have a point there.
there will no moon, or iow a new moon, at Christ's Coming
so the 6th seal is NOT His Coming,
even if the people of under the beast think it is

Also, when Revelation 6:12-13 occurs, the moon's light will appear blood-red, whereas when Matthew 24:29 occurs, the moon's light won't be seen at all. There will also be one point between the time of Revelation 6:12-13 and the time of Matthew 24:29 when the moon's light temporarily won't be seen at all, during 1/3 of the night (Revelation 8:12).

well, I take that to mean something else,
1/3 less visible, but still there and seen all the time
just not as bright

Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus will return right after the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), and he will marry the church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then he will defeat the unsaved world (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3), and reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.

pretty basic chronological position
its hard for me to get to the point
where I think Rev is as chronological as u think it is

The 6th seal (Revelation 6:12-14) could be fulfilled in our future by a huge volcanic eruption (possibly of the Yellowstone Caldera) which will occur ...

it could be a million things

Regarding "the day of the Lord and His wrath is come", the tribulation's 6th seal (Revelation 6:12-14) will happen sometime before the day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, Revelation 6:12), whereas the day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at his 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't happen until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). Similarly, the day of the Lord's wrath (Psalms 110:5) won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19-21).

if its a reference to the day of the Lord,
then its supposed to be referencing the one and only future day of the Lord

so the only answer I can come up with
is that the unfaithful Christians deceived under the beast
only think that the antichrist is the true Christ,
and thus think his coming is Christ's Coming, thus wrath time
(which is why men/they declare it, not angels etc)

iow, the statement about His wrath come in Rev6
is not officially from the Throne of God, but rather from men

So the people quoted at the 6th seal (Revelation 6:17), during only the first stage of the tribulation, could be just as mistaken as Job was when Job said that what was happening to him was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11).

yes

Just as what was happening to Job was actually Satan's wrath against him, not God's wrath, so the 6th seal could actually be Satan's wrath, not God's wrath.

that WAS my position for years,
and is again, especially in light of your expose
thx

And just as the writer of the book of Job didn't go out of his way to correct Job's mistaken statement in Job 19:11, and just as the apostles John and Matthew didn't go out of their ways to correct the mistaken statements of the people they quoted in John 7:12b and Matthew 27:63a, so the apostle John could have not gone out of his way to correct the statement of the people he quoted in Revelation 6:17.

I agree.

Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will happen before the Antichrist's (the individual-man aspect of the beast's) future, literal 3.5-year worldwide Luciferian/Satanic reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). And the events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 could be used by Satan to help prepare the world to welcome that reign. For what he could do is first take great pleasure in causing the destruction in each event, but then claim that the destruction isn't from him, but from YHWH, and that YHWH is a cruel tyrant god who hates mankind and only wants to make it suffer, while he (Satan, as "Lucifer") only wants the best for mankind (cf. Mark 8:33b). In this way, he could deceive the world into turning away from YHWH and instead worshipping him (the dragon) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

that is not the scenario I envision

he will be pretending to be Jesus,
so he will not be trying to dissuade folks from believing in God.
he will be claiming to be God, so he need folks believing in God
2Thes2 makes it clear he will impersonate YHVH

After the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year reign (Revelation 13:5-7) is declared legally over at the sounding of the tribulation's 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath will come out of the heavenly-temple opening of the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). The vials will then be poured out on the Antichrist's followers as God's judgment for their receiving the Antichrist's mark and worshipping his image (Revelation 16:2), and for their killing of people in the church (Revelation 16:6-7, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

I think this is during the 10 days of Awe
between Trumpets and Atonement

I admit to being a novice in this area

During the Antichrist's worldwide reign, people in the church will be hated and killed in every nation for refusing to renounce the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13).

that is not the way i see it.
I think that the world's Christians, for the most part
will think the AC is Jesus and willingly follow him
but the elect among us will not,
and thus they will be the target of Mat24's persecutions
by even members of their own family

They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the witness of Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:4),

na, Rev20:4 speaks of the martyrs from all time, who were beheaded/martyred,
like the very notable John the Baptist

the AC will not be lopping off heads
he will be claiming to be God

for refusing to accept the antichrist lies that Jesus himself isn't the Christ (1 John 2:22), and that Christ himself isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7).

again, what ever his lies are, they will be good ones.
but it will revolve around him claiming to be God

Even when God's wrath comes in the 7 vials (Revelation 16), the tribulation's final stage, because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of the vials will be directed at any of those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have prepared for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had prepared for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:11,13).

and if any are in Jerusalem, they will flee to the wilderness

Jesus will return right after the 7th and last vial is completed (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21, Matthew 24:29-30), and he will bring the 2nd-coming wrath of God on the unsaved world (Revelation 19:15-21). But before that 2nd-coming wrath begins, the church will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31) into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

na, Jesus returns at the 7th trump.
that's the whole reason behind ALL the feasts of the Lord.
that is what they held the festival of Trumpets in honour of

it's the time of the new moon. the only festival to be held on one.

fulfilling -no man knoweth the hour-as to it's timing.

whether He stays on earth with us for the wrath time (10 days of Awe) is debatable
I think He stays, but others have other opinions

so, we disagree on a few things.

Revelation 14:14-16 refers to Jesus sitting on a single cloud in the 3rd heaven and reaping into the 3rd heaven (beginning mid-tribulation) the souls of those in the church who will be killed (Revelation 14:13) by the Antichrist during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18) (during the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24). They will be killed for refusing to worship the Antichrist and his image, and refusing to receive his mark (Revelation 14:9-16, cf. Revelation 15:2, Revelation 20:4-6).

well, nothing is stated as to bring us to the conclusion
that Jesus is reaping mid trib in Rev14
unless u view things completely linear as u do

some believe this is not a futuristic scene at all
but rather history

Revelation 14:19-20 can refer to the Antichrist's killing of non-Christians who won't worship him (such as radical Muslims, ultra-Orthodox Jews, hardcore atheists, etc.) being God's wrath against those non-Christians.

sure, it could. but it could refer to many other things too

Revelation 14:20 could refer to when they get beheaded by the Antichrist, their blood will shoot up from their necks like a geyser as high as a horse's bridle.

the height is that of a man, so it represents dead folk
but not beheaded by the beast.
see Zec14 for the timing

Also, in Revelation 14:20, the city could be Jerusalem, and the 1,600 furlongs is about 200 miles, so that Revelation 14:19-20 could mean that the Antichrist's beheading of people who won't worship him will begin at Jerusalem and the surrounding region, when he sits (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

sorry, I don't believe in a third Jewish temple.
the 1st one was not Jewish btw.

today, we are the temple of God according to Paul
because God does not dwell in man made buildings.

the Inspired Paul wrote about 2Thes2's temple of God,
after defining that it was "us", not a building,
multiple times in the NT

so since it was inspired Paul who said it, in 2Thes2 (temple of God)
he would not have given any credit to a future temple built by men
to be called the temple of God

jews aren't calling it that, inspired PAUL is

But when the Antichrist beheads Christians for not worshipping him (Revelation 20:4), this won't be God's wrath against those Christians, but Satan's wrath against them (Revelation 12:17).

imo it wont happen.
Rev20:4 tells us about the martyrs of the past, before the trib
some beheaded like JTB and thousands of others under Rome

killed for the word of God and killed for Jesus

and it also tells us of the ones that go through the trib
and don't take the mark
and are raptured at the other end

the word AND separates the events,
just like in Gen1's days of creation

Time Watcher · Sep 10, 2013

"Matthew 17:10-13 can be understood as referring to two different comings of Elijah"

There is no indication of what you say in the passage

The Lord gives you the truth about the "Elijah" that had come before Him and before His great and terrible day [of the Lord] still pending

Elijah the prophet is asleep in death .... the Lord supernaturally moved him around in his day .... but he did not go to "heaven" .... the state of the immortal .... he is waiting for his resurrection 1 Corinthians 15:20-23]

There is only One who has gone to "heaven" .... the One who has come down from "heaven" .... I believe you know who this is

So you must reconcile your thinking .... there are no contradictions in the Lord's Word

If you don't cease from making errors in your renderings [I do think much of it is good], no one is going to believe you in today's world full of skeptics .... they will catch you

And after all the mission of the prophecy teacher needs to be that of convincing others that the Bible is what it claims to be and therefore those who hear need repentance and saving

Not an easy job

Jon Anon · Sep 10, 2013

Time Watcher said:
"Matthew 17:10-13 can be understood as referring to two different comings of Elijah"

There is no indication of what you say in the passage

The Lord gives you the truth about the "Elijah" that had come before Him and before His great and terrible day [of the Lord] still pending

Elijah the prophet is asleep in death .... the Lord supernaturally moved him around in his day .... but he did not go to "heaven" .... the state of the immortal .... he is waiting for his resurrection 1 Corinthians 15:20-23]

There is only One who has gone to "heaven" .... the One who has come down from "heaven" .... I believe you know who this is

So you must reconcile your thinking .... there are no contradictions in the Lord's Word

If you don't cease from making errors in your renderings [I do think much of it is good], no one is going to believe you in today's world full of skeptics .... they will catch you

And after all the mission of the prophecy teacher needs to be that of convincing others that the Bible is what it claims to be and therefore those who hear need repentance and saving

Not an easy job

26 days til the arrival of elijah....24 hours either way from the revelation 12 siagn that happens at 8:30 p.m central time october 6 2013

Time Watcher · Sep 10, 2013

I don't think so .... we will see if your forecast comes true

Who told you this .... or are you just joking?

Jon Anon · Sep 10, 2013

Time Watcher said:
I don't think so .... we will see if your forecast comes true

Who told you this .... or are you just joking?

Just wait and watch

heavenlessstar · Sep 10, 2013

I wonder if a false prophet appears would you know the difference.

Jon Anon · Sep 10, 2013

heavenlessstar said:
I wonder if a false prophet appears would you know the difference.

When elijah appears will you recognize him or think he is a false prophet?

When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?

IMO...

Newbie

Newbie

Bible2

Guest

Bible2

Guest

IMO...

Newbie

Newbie

Bible2

Guest

IMO...

Time Watcher

Guest

Bible2

Guest

Bible2

Guest

IMO...

Time Watcher

Guest

Newbie

Time Watcher

Guest

Newbie

Tony

Newbie

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency