When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?

[Jon Anon]

2 Jon Anon, GINOLJC

Jesus and John are not the two witnesses as they never called fire down from the sky and they never layed in the street for 3 and half days and God never said "come up hither" in front of their enemines raising them up 3 and half days later.

Revelation is symbolic, one must understand the meaning. Revelation 11:6 "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will". this is to tell us who their identities are. they will emulate these two old testament prophets, Moses and Elijah who did these two things.
so these two witness identity is set.

and to your response, "they never layed in the street for 3 and half days". here is it symbolic, one must understand, the meaning of days, and death. death can be physical as well as spiritual. answer, their bodies was dead to the world because of sin in the world. supportive scripture, Matthew 8:22 "But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead". wait a minute, the dead bury the dead, how can the dead bury the dead when the dead is dead. answer, when one is spiritually dead to God. even though one may have a heart beat, alive physically, but yet dead to God. so Jesus and John was the only men, "alive" men on the earth at that time, because sin reign in the world. and because of the first man, ADAM sin, all died. listen, Romans 6:11 "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord". now Romans 8:10 "And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness". see because of sin in the world, their bodies was DEAD TO IT. because they had the Spirit in them. so by John and Jesus having the spirit of God in them, (for they was born with the Spirit from birth), you don't bury "ALIVE" men, symbolic meaning.

now as for fire calling down from heaven, yes the identity is Elijah, and was not John the baptist coming in his (Elijah), spirit and power, scripture, Luke 1:13 "But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord".

now as to the other reference of fire in revelation 11, coming out of their mouth. its again symbolic. let the bible answer that. Jeremiah 5:14 "Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them". now verse 5 of revelation, "And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed". there is the key word, in Jeremiah" devour them", and in revelation, " devoureth their enemies". fire, here is symbolic of God Word.

be blessed

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"
​

Read Revelation 11:8-9......It says they will lay in the street where our Lord was (past tense) crucified.......it also says their bodies will not be put in graves and we know Jesus was put in a tomb....hence the two witnesses are not Jesus and John

 

[101c]

2 Jon Anon
did you not read my previous post.
Revelation 11:8 "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified". Notice, where also, where also, understand now. stop thinking future. revelation is a three fold book. past, present, (at John writing). and future. many of the things John saw already, happen. so think not, all of revelation is future. ok.

be blessed

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"
​

 

[101c]

2 Jon Anon

Revelation 11:8 "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified".
the words "shall lie", is not in the original manuscript, these words was added by the translators. any time one see words in Italic, it means that these words was added, supposedly for clearity.

be blessed

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"​

 

[Jon Anon]

2 Jon Anon

Revelation 11:8 "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified".
the words "shall lie", is not in the original manuscript, these words was added by the translators. any time one see words in Italic, it means that these words was added, supposedly for clearity.

be blessed

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"​

You are missing the point it happens after Jesus crucifiction

 

[101c]

2 Jon Anon
You are missing the point it happens after Jesus crucification
Maybe, but that's your opinion, and thanks for your opinion.

but what is missing the "shall lie" in that verse.

Maybe, we need to look at these two witness more closely. since you gave your opinion, may I give mine?. thanks.

I did a study on this topic years back, and here are some, not all but some, which is in my OPINION.

"The two witnesses of Revelations, a second look?."
Could the two witness mention in Revelation Chapter 11 be Jesus the Christ and John the Baptist?. who emulated Elijah and Moses?. this is the question, can we find correlating scripture in order to see this?. well lets see.

while re-reading the book of John, I and got a slight surprise. John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe". the word witness jump out at me, and my mind went straight to Revelation chapter 11 concerning the two witness. and another thing cross my mind in verse 6 "a man sent from God". if the scripture would have said, "sent by God". OK, but from God?. that got my attention. so I started to put two and two together and got only two. OK don't laugh, I know my math is bad, but lets examine how I came to this conclusion.
I believe that we had the two witness as Elijah and Moses (as to description, see Rev 11:6, which is symbolic). but are we still correct?. I say yes, if we can connect John the Baptist to Elijah. and Jesus the Christ to Moses. Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth". there are four words in this scripture that can or could help us to connect both Prophets of the new testament, (John and Jesus). to the two prophets of the old testament, (Elijah and Moses). "THE WITNESSES". First of Two witness. John the Baptist, Scripture: John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe". Second of two witness: (Jesus), Scripture: John 18:37 "Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice". so both gave witness.

Now "THE POWER" (verse 3): to understand this we need to go to the book of Zechariah chapter 4. the Power is the Holy Spirit. read again all of chapter 4. look at these verses 11-14 "Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth". Anointed ones?: who are they?. what do anointed means. W.E. vines Dictionary: anointing,1. Verb,G218, aleipho The material used was either oil, or ointment." The title Christ signifies "The Anointed One," The word (Christos) is rendered "(His) Anointed" in Acts 4:26, RV. Once it is said of believers, 2Cor 1:21. Chrio is very frequent in the Sept., and is used of kings, 1Sam 10:1, and priests, Exod 28:41, and prophets
so the connection is the "oil" and the oil represent the Holy Spirit. so the two witness is endowed with the Holy Spirit. Lest see it then?.
First the Anointing of (John), and remember both are prophets. Scripture: Luke 1:11 "And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord". so here in this scripture, not only do we have the Anointing of John with the Holy Spirit, but also the connection with the spirit of Elijah. and as Zechariah the prophet said "that stand by the Lord of the whole earth". for John, is in his, (God), sight. Luke states, "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord". Connection #1. is made. now the Anointing of (Jesus) at his birth the same as John, and at his baptism, for the priesthood. Prophet and Priest. Scripture: Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Matthews 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Lastly, Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised". now the connection to Moses. Deuteronomy 18:14 "The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken". more connections. both was laws givers, both had a water connection, just as John and Elijah had water connections. Moses and the children of Israel was baptized in water, thru the red sea. Jesus and his Children are baptize in his blood, as Jesus told his disciple who wanted to sit on his right and left. he said, Matthew 20:22 "But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able". the RED sea symbolized the blood, just as our Lord gave his BLOOD for us, in his baptism of his death. both are always before GOD. we can get the better picture of this connection at Jesus transfiguration. Matthews 17:2 "And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. so now the connection is made with Jesus and Moses.

Now prophesy, (verse 3: this mean to Speak, or preach. (John), Scripture: Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it". Matthew 3:1 " In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea", so John is preaching, or prophesy. now, (Jesus as preacher), Scriptures: Matthews 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised".

Now the last part of this scripture. "they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days". a thousand two hundred and threescore days = 1260 divided by 365 = 3 years and one half. the exact years of Jesus and John, public ministries. Cloths in sackcloth, meaning preaching repentance. sackcloth means penitence. the first thing out of John the Baptist mouth, "REPENT". Scripture, Matthews 3:1 "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight". now our Lord Jesus. Scripture, Matthews 4:16 "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand".
Here are some compiled similarities between Jesus the Christ and Moses.
1. both have a close relationship with God. Moses a face to face Physical (human) meeting. Jesus a Spiritual Face to face, a diversity of God (human) meeting.

2. both were ordained by God to deliver his people from bondage. Moses Physical bondage, Jesus Spiritual bondage

3. both Moses and Jesus were saved from death when they were small children, while most other Israelite male children of the same age and place of birth were murdered.

4. both Jesus and Moses refused the possibility to become rulers in their age. Satan offered Jesus the rule over the kingdoms of this world (Matthew 4:8-9), but Jesus rejected that offer and chose to suffer and die for the sake of the people of Israel. Moses acted in a similar manner; he had been raised as a son in a royal family, and he could have had a lavish lifestyle, but he chose differently. he suffered for the people sake.

5. both Jesus and Moses were "called out of Egypt".

6. both Moses and Jesus interceded for Israel, not allowing the destruction of the nation

7. both Jesus and Moses "mediated" between Israel and the true God who is in Heaven, and revealed the things of God to Israel.

8. both Jesus and Moses were Lawgivers. Moses the carnal Law of Stone. Jesus the Spiritual Law of the heart with grace.
this is just a few, their are many more.

be blessed.

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"​

 

[Jon Anon]

2 Jon Anon
You are missing the point it happens after Jesus crucification
Maybe, but that's your opinion, and thanks for your opinion.

but what is missing the "shall lie" in that verse.

Maybe, we need to look at these two witness more closely. since you gave your opinion, may I give mine?. thanks.

I did a study on this topic years back, and here are some, not all but some, which is in my OPINION.

"The two witnesses of Revelations, a second look?."
Could the two witness mention in Revelation Chapter 11 be Jesus the Christ and John the Baptist?. who emulated Elijah and Moses?. this is the question, can we find correlating scripture in order to see this?. well lets see.

while re-reading the book of John, I and got a slight surprise. John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe". the word witness jump out at me, and my mind went straight to Revelation chapter 11 concerning the two witness. and another thing cross my mind in verse 6 "a man sent from God". if the scripture would have said, "sent by God". OK, but from God?. that got my attention. so I started to put two and two together and got only two. OK don't laugh, I know my math is bad, but lets examine how I came to this conclusion.
I believe that we had the two witness as Elijah and Moses (as to description, see Rev 11:6, which is symbolic). but are we still correct?. I say yes, if we can connect John the Baptist to Elijah. and Jesus the Christ to Moses. Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth". there are four words in this scripture that can or could help us to connect both Prophets of the new testament, (John and Jesus). to the two prophets of the old testament, (Elijah and Moses). "THE WITNESSES". First of Two witness. John the Baptist, Scripture: John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe". Second of two witness: (Jesus), Scripture: John 18:37 "Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice". so both gave witness.

Now "THE POWER" (verse 3): to understand this we need to go to the book of Zechariah chapter 4. the Power is the Holy Spirit. read again all of chapter 4. look at these verses 11-14 "Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth". Anointed ones?: who are they?. what do anointed means. W.E. vines Dictionary: anointing,1. Verb,G218, aleipho The material used was either oil, or ointment." The title Christ signifies "The Anointed One," The word (Christos) is rendered "(His) Anointed" in Acts 4:26, RV. Once it is said of believers, 2Cor 1:21. Chrio is very frequent in the Sept., and is used of kings, 1Sam 10:1, and priests, Exod 28:41, and prophets
so the connection is the "oil" and the oil represent the Holy Spirit. so the two witness is endowed with the Holy Spirit. Lest see it then?.
First the Anointing of (John), and remember both are prophets. Scripture: Luke 1:11 "And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord". so here in this scripture, not only do we have the Anointing of John with the Holy Spirit, but also the connection with the spirit of Elijah. and as Zechariah the prophet said "that stand by the Lord of the whole earth". for John, is in his, (God), sight. Luke states, "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord". Connection #1. is made. now the Anointing of (Jesus) at his birth the same as John, and at his baptism, for the priesthood. Prophet and Priest. Scripture: Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Matthews 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Lastly, Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised". now the connection to Moses. Deuteronomy 18:14 "The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken". more connections. both was laws givers, both had a water connection, just as John and Elijah had water connections. Moses and the children of Israel was baptized in water, thru the red sea. Jesus and his Children are baptize in his blood, as Jesus told his disciple who wanted to sit on his right and left. he said, Matthew 20:22 "But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able". the RED sea symbolized the blood, just as our Lord gave his BLOOD for us, in his baptism of his death. both are always before GOD. we can get the better picture of this connection at Jesus transfiguration. Matthews 17:2 "And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. so now the connection is made with Jesus and Moses.

Now prophesy, (verse 3: this mean to Speak, or preach. (John), Scripture: Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it". Matthew 3:1 " In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea", so John is preaching, or prophesy. now, (Jesus as preacher), Scriptures: Matthews 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised".

Now the last part of this scripture. "they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days". a thousand two hundred and threescore days = 1260 divided by 365 = 3 years and one half. the exact years of Jesus and John, public ministries. Cloths in sackcloth, meaning preaching repentance. sackcloth means penitence. the first thing out of John the Baptist mouth, "REPENT". Scripture, Matthews 3:1 "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight". now our Lord Jesus. Scripture, Matthews 4:16 "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand".
Here are some compiled similarities between Jesus the Christ and Moses.
1. both have a close relationship with God. Moses a face to face Physical (human) meeting. Jesus a Spiritual Face to face, a diversity of God (human) meeting.

2. both were ordained by God to deliver his people from bondage. Moses Physical bondage, Jesus Spiritual bondage

3. both Moses and Jesus were saved from death when they were small children, while most other Israelite male children of the same age and place of birth were murdered.

4. both Jesus and Moses refused the possibility to become rulers in their age. Satan offered Jesus the rule over the kingdoms of this world (Matthew 4:8-9), but Jesus rejected that offer and chose to suffer and die for the sake of the people of Israel. Moses acted in a similar manner; he had been raised as a son in a royal family, and he could have had a lavish lifestyle, but he chose differently. he suffered for the people sake.

5. both Jesus and Moses were "called out of Egypt".

6. both Moses and Jesus interceded for Israel, not allowing the destruction of the nation

7. both Jesus and Moses "mediated" between Israel and the true God who is in Heaven, and revealed the things of God to Israel.

8. both Jesus and Moses were Lawgivers. Moses the carnal Law of Stone. Jesus the Spiritual Law of the heart with grace.
this is just a few, their are many more.

be blessed.

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"​

Moses delivered from physical bondage Jesus delivered from spiritual bondage but the two witnesses mission is to re-unite the lost 10 tribes with the 2 the tribes of judah and benjamin....the jews can see the two witnessrs and the christians can see Jesus but both are partially blind to the whole mystery

 

[jsimms615]

No, Jesus said to His disciples that "Elijah" had come.
There is no dual literal fulfillment, That is dispensensationalism. A so called "prophetess" in the Church made that ideology up in the late 1800's. With only a cursory reading of the Bible & good preachers- one can see it is a false prophecy.

There is no consensus exactly on the interpretation of the symbolic reference of the "Two Witnesses"

But I have settled on this one:

The "two witnesses" were symbolic of the Church in the last days. Here are seven reasons why I believe this:

1. God gave His "two witnesses" authority to lock up heaven so that there would be no rain while they prophesied, to turn the waters into blood and to smite the Land with every calamity. (Rev. 11:6)

These judgments against Israel were the judgments of the saints, apostles and prophets, in Rev. 18:20. In Rev. 16:2-12 these judgments were "poured out" on the wicked by means of the Church (in the symbol of the "seven angels"). Compare Rev. 15:6 and Rev. 19:8,14; and compare Rev. 21:9 and Rev. 22:8,9.

Through the faith and prayers of the Church, the destroying Mountain of Israel was violently cast into the sea, turning the waters into blood. (Jer. 51:25; Matt. 21:21; Rev. 8:8)

2. Fire came out of the mouth of the "two witnesses," and it devoured their enemies. (Rev. 11:5)

This symbol was taken from Jer. 5:14:

"...Behold, I am making My words in your mouth fire, and this people wood, and it will consume them."


​

The prophetic words of the Church consumed the people in the Last Days, just as the prophetic words of Jeremiah consumed the people in his day.

Utterance and wisdom was "given" to believers that none of their enemies were able to resist or refute. (Matt. 10:19-20; Mk. 13:11; Lk. 21:15)

3. No one could harm the two witnesses. (Rev. 11:5) In Lk. 10:19, Jesus gave believers "authority" to tread upon serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy, so that nothing could injure them.

4. The two witnesses were the "two olive trees and the two lampstands." (Rev. 11:4)

In Zech. 3-4, these symbols represented Joshua the priest and Zerubbabel the king. In the New Testament, the Church is God's "kingdom and priesthood." (I Peter 2:9; Rev. 1:6; 5:10; 20:6)

5. The beast made war with the two witnesses, conquered them and killed them. (Rev. 11:7)

This parallels Rev. 13:7-9, where the beast made war with the saints, conquered them and killed them.

6. The two prophets "stood on their feet" after "a breath of God" entered them, and they ascended into Heaven. In that very hour, their enemies became terrified and Jerusalem's downfall began. (Rev. 11:12-13)

This parallels Eze. 37, where the house of Israel was symbolized as "a valley of dry bones." The "breath of God" entered the slain of Israel and "they stood on their feet" and became a vast, conquering army. (Eze. 37:9-14)

The Church was persecuted and martyred, until God raised her up, when He came and paid back affliction to those Jews who were afflicting her. (I Thess. 2:14-16; 4:13-18; II Thess. 1:6-10; Rev. 6:10-17)

7. The peoples "rejoiced" and made merry and gave presents to one another when the two prophets (witnesses) who had prophesied in sackcloth were killed, (Rev. 11:3,9-10) but the two prophets were later raised up. (Rev. 11:12)

This is a reiteration of Jesus' words concerning the Church:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned to joy." (Jn. 16:20).


​

I believe the symbol of the "two witnesses" is based on Deut. 17:6; Matt. 18:16:

"On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death....."


​

The prophetic witness of the Church against fleshly Israel was faithful and true.

"But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name's sake. It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony [witness]. So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute. But you will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, and you will be hated by all on account of My name. Yet not a hair of your head will perish. By your endurance you will gain your lives. But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand." (Lk. 21:12-20)
​

good comments, I think your right

 

[101c]

2 Jon Anon

Moses delivered from physical bondage Jesus delivered from spiritual bondage but the two witnesses mission is to re-unite the lost 10 tribes with the 2 the tribes of judah and benjamin....the jews can see the two witnessrs and the christians can see Jesus but both are partially blind to the whole mystery

did not John witness went into the whole world, as did our Lord and Saviour, Jesus the Christ. for we have their testimony, the bible. did not john prepare the people?, and did not our Lord reconcile the WORLD unto himself?. where do you think their message, (witness) went to. listen, 1 Peter 1:1 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied". who do you think these "elect strangers" are?.
did not our God reconcile the whole world?. listen, 2 Corinthians 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation". was not his gospel preached unto the wold world?, yes, and lets get the mystery at the same time, 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory".
lets back that mystery up with supportive scripture, Romans 16:25 "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began. How is our Lord revealed?, answer through "preaching". supportive scripture, Titus 1:3 "But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour".

be blessed

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"​

 

[Jon Anon]

2 Jon Anon

Moses delivered from physical bondage Jesus delivered from spiritual bondage but the two witnesses mission is to re-unite the lost 10 tribes with the 2 the tribes of judah and benjamin....the jews can see the two witnessrs and the christians can see Jesus but both are partially blind to the whole mystery

did not John witness went into the whole world, as did our Lord and Saviour, Jesus the Christ. for we have their testimony, the bible. did not john prepare the people?, and did not our Lord reconcile the WORLD unto himself?. where do you think their message, (witness) went to. listen, 1 Peter 1:1 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied". who do you think these "elect strangers" are?.
did not our God reconcile the whole world?. listen, 2 Corinthians 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation". was not his gospel preached unto the wold world?, yes, and lets get the mystery at the same time, 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory".
lets back that mystery up with supportive scripture, Romans 16:25 "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began. How is our Lord revealed?, answer through "preaching". supportive scripture, Titus 1:3 "But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour".

be blessed

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"​

If you believe jews and christians are in agreement and the stick of judah and ephraim are one again you are mistaken

 

[101c]

2 Jon Anon
If you belief jews and christians are in agreement and the stick of judah and ephraim are one again you are mistaken.

can I ask you just one question?. who is a Jew, one inwardly, or one outwardly?, I'll be waiting for your answer

be blessed

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"​

 

[Jon Anon]

2 Jon Anon
If you belief jews and christians are in agreement and the stick of judah and ephraim are one again you are mistaken.

can I ask you just one question?. who is a Jew, one inwardly, or one outwardly?, I'll be waiting for your answer

be blessed

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"​

Those who came back in 1948 are Judah and benjamin the other 10 tribes will arrive after the destruction of u.s

 

[101c]

2 Jon Anon
Those who came back in 1948 are Judah and benjamin the other 10 tribes will arrive after the destruction of u.s

is that bible, or your opinion?, which one. and may I remind you, only God know where he scattered his people.

but take note, under the new covenant, Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God".

if I was you, I would "fully understand the meaning, and the implication of those scripture", and be careful, before you speak again.

be blessed

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"
​

 

[Jon Anon]

2 Jon Anon
Those who came back in 1948 are Judah and benjamin the other 10 tribes will arrive after the destruction of u.s

is that bible, or your opinion?, which one. and may I remind you, only God know where he scattered his people.

but take note, under the new covenant, Romans 2:28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God".

if I was you, I would "fully understand the meaning, and the implication of those scripture", and be careful, before you speak again.

be blessed

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"
​

The sign of Revelation 12 and the arrival of Elijah....if it is this year it will be October 6 2013 and the destruction will come 40 days later on November 14/15 2013...remember my words

 

[101c]

2 Jon Anon
The sign of Revelation 12 and the arrival of Elijah....if it is this year it will be October 6 2013 and the destruction will come 40 days later on November 14/15 2013...remember my words

don't worry, I'm going to file this e-male, until november 16th 2013.
so, until then,

be blessed

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"​

 

[Jon Anon]

2 Jon Anon
The sign of Revelation 12 and the arrival of Elijah....if it is this year it will be October 6 2013 and the destruction will come 40 days later on November 14/15 2013...remember my words

don't worry, I'm going to file this e-male, until november 16th 2013.
so, until then,

be blessed

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"​

Until then...be blessed

 

[Bible2]

101c said in post 118:

"The great and terrible day of the lord". is the judgment on sin in the world. Joel 2:11 "And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?".

Joel 2:1-27 can refer poetically to a literal locust invasion which destroyed ancient Israel's crops (Joel 2:25) sometime before the Acts 2 day of Pentecost in the first century AD (Joel 2:28-29, Acts 2:16-18). For the day of the Lord in Joel 2:1-27 can refer to an ancient day of the Lord, like the ancient day of the Lord in Jeremiah 46:2,10. Both of these ancient days of the Lord can be different than the future day of the Lord (Joel 2:31) which won't start until sometime after the 6th seal (Revelation 6:12, Joel 2:31) of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For the future day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Joel 2:1 referring to only Zion, the holy mountain, and the land, can mean that it's referring to only a localized day of the Lord which affected only the ancient Israelites on their land. Joel 2:2 can refer to a huge cloud of literal locusts darkening the skies of Israel. Just as literal ants can be referred to as "a people" (Hebrew: "am", H5971) (Proverbs 30:25), so a huge cloud of devouring locusts can be referred to poetically as "a great people (H5971) and a strong" (Joel 2:2). Joel 2:3b describes the effects of a locust invasion, which can be poetically expressed as being like a devouring fire (Joel 2:3). Joel 2:4 can describe locusts running along the ground as looking like little horses. Joel 2:5 can poetically describe locusts leaping high, and devouring every plant, down even to its stubble. "A strong people set in battle array" (Joel 2:5) brings to mind another poetic description of a locust swarm: "go they forth all of them by bands", that is, distributed into ranks (Hebrew "chatsats", H2686) (Proverbs 30:27).

Joel 2:6 can poetically describe the immense grief felt by the ancient Israelites as they witnessed all their crops being devoured by the locust swarm. Joel 2:7 can describe locusts running along the ground and climbing up walls. "They shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks" (Joel 2:7) again brings to mind another poetic description of a locust swarm: "go they forth all of them by bands" (Proverbs 30:27). Joel 2:8 can refer to the locusts in the swarm not attacking each other, and to how useless a sword was in fighting against them. Because locusts are so small and have an exoskeleton, they can just bounce off a swinging sword as they fly along. Joel 2:9 can refer to locusts running along the ground through a city, climbing up onto the walls of buildings and into windows looking for food anywhere they can.

Joel 2:10 can be poetic hyperbole to express how terrible the locust swarm was to the land of Israel, and how the swarm was so vast that it darkened the skies of Israel completely. The original Hebrew word (erets, H0776) translated as "the earth" (Joel 2:10) can refer to only a local area of land (e.g. Genesis 2:11,13), like, for example, our word "earthquake" today can refer to only a local event. Joel 2:11 shows that the literal locust swarm wasn't from Satan, fallen angels, or evil nephilim, but was considered by God to be his own "army", as it were (Joel 2:25). Joel 2:20 can mean that God's literal locust "army" (Joel 2:25) came from the north into the land of Israel, and that the swarm was eventually sent off by God into the barren desert, where the locusts died of starvation and their millions of dead bodies rotted in the sun and sent up a great stench. Joel 2:25 shows that it was literal locusts, and other plant-destroying insects, which God considered to be "my great army which I sent among you".

Joel 2:28-29 shows that the locusts devoured ancient Israel's crops sometime before the Acts 2 day of Pentecost in the first century AD. For Joel 2:28-29 began to happen sometime "afterward", sometime after the locust invasion of Joel 2:1-27. And Joel 2:28-29 began to happen at the Acts 2 day of Pentecost (Acts 2:16-18).

*******

101c said in post 120:

Revelation is symbolic, one must understand the meaning.

Revelation is almost entirely literal, for it's unsealed (Revelation 22:10), meaning that it shouldn't be difficult for saved people of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it's written: chronologically and almost-entirely literally. The few parts of it that are symbolic are almost always explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 1:20, Revelation 17:9-12). And Revelation's few symbols not explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 13:2) are usually explained elsewhere in the Bible (e.g. Daniel 7:4-7,17).

Just as Jesus' 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally, so the events of the preceding tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally. Also, the millennium in Revelation 20 will be literal, and will begin after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21), when he will reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11). After that, the events of Revelation 20:7 to 22:5 will occur literally.

101c said in post 120:

now as to the other reference of fire in revelation 11, coming out of their mouth. its again symbolic.

The fire in Revelation 11:5 can be literal fire which will literally kill people, like the literal fire in 2 Kings 1:10-14 literally killed people.

*******

101c said in post 122:

stop thinking future. revelation is a three fold book. past, present, (at John writing). and future.

Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are future because they're about "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b). And just as Jesus' 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 has never been fulfilled, for nowhere in history books do we find its fulfillment, so the highly-detailed events of the preceding tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 have never been fulfilled, for nowhere in history books do we find their fulfillment.

 

[101c]

2 Bible2, GINOLJ,

Joel 2:1-27 can refer poetically to a literal locust invasion which destroyed ancient Israel's crops (Joel 2:25) sometime before the Acts 2 day of Pentecost in the first century AD

I don't believe so. here's why, in 2 verse 28, picking up from where 27 end, question why would God pour out his Spirit on people, because of a literal locust invasion?. no listen to verse 28, "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions". why are people going to prophesy, dream, and see vision, over a literal locust invasion?. NO, lets see the real reason why. verse 3 gives us one of the reason why God in verse 28 pour out his spirit.
Joel 2:3 "A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them". question, "a fire devoureth?". Revelation 11:5 the two witness, "And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed". (and you do know fire cleans). and the flame after this cleanse, scripture, Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance". Joel 2:3 parallel revelation 11:5 to a tee. as well as other passages in Joel. now to prove this out, in Joel 2:28 he said afterward, after what?, after this cleaning, (of sin) from the land. then God will dwell among his people. he will be able to walk in them and among them , before he could not because of sin that's in the world. now that he put and end to sin. now he can gather his people unto himself. and be with his people and in them. these verses can be confirm, and supported by what the apostle Peter said in acts, listen, Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy". see what the apostle Peter said, "in those days".

lets get the understanding here, after, and only after sin is removed from the land can God dwell with and in his people under a new covenant, which is Spiritual. (this is what I warn Jon Anon about). sin is the separator of the Holy God from his People. only in the past he "visited" his people. supportive scripture, Luke 1:67 "And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people".
now he walk among and in them. and when the kingdom is delivered up, and the last enemy is destroyed, then will he dwell among his people face to face, as it was prophesy before?. Leviticus 26:11 "And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you. 12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people". Revelation 21:3 "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God".

so in conclusion Joel 2:1-27 is not talking about a literal locust invasion. but the coming judgment on sin.


be blessed,

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"
​

 

[Bible2]

101c said in post 137:

here's why, in 2 verse 28, picking up from where 27 end, question why would God pour out his Spirit on people, because of a literal locust invasion?.

Note that it wasn't said that the Acts 2 day of Pentecost in the first century AD in Joel 2:28-29 and Acts 2:16-18 happened because of a literal locust invasion, but that a literal locust invasion could have happened sometime before the Acts 2 day of Pentecost. For Joel 2:28-29 and Acts 2:16-18 began to happen sometime "afterward", sometime after the literal locust invasion of Joel 2:1-27.

101c said in post 137:

Joel 2:3 "A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them". question, "a fire devoureth?". Revelation 11:5 the two witness, "And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed".

Joel 2:3b describes the effects of a literal locust invasion, which can be poetically expressed as being like a devouring fire (Joel 2:3a), just as, conversely, in Nahum 3:15, a literal devouring fire and sword is poetically expressed as being like a devouring insect invasion. Note that Revelation 11:5 doesn't say that its two witnesses (Revelation 11:3) will destroy "the land" with fire, but only some individual people who will try to hurt them, just as Joel 2:1-27 didn't say that its literal locust invasion would kill any people, only devour the land, in the sense of all its vegetation (Joel 2:25). Also, the two witnesses won't look like horses (Joel 2:4), whereas literal locusts can look like little horses running along the ground.

101c said in post 137:

see what the apostle Peter said, "in those days".

Just as when Matthew says "this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias" (Matthew 3:3-4), he means that John the Baptist is the fulfillment of Isaiah 40:3, so when Peter says "this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel" (Acts 2:16-18), he means that what happened at the Pentecost in Acts 2 began the fulfillment of Joel 2:28-32. For just as Joel 2:28-32 prophesied the receiving of the Holy Spirit in the "last days" (Acts 2:16-17), so the disciples had just received the Holy Spirit at the Pentecost in Acts 2 (Acts 2:4). And this happened in the "last days", for they began at Jesus' first coming (Hebrews 1:2). Acts 2:17 continues to be fulfilled today whenever a Christian receives Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 11:15-16, Acts 10:44-46, Acts 8:15-17, Acts 19:5-6). Joel 2:30-31 won't be fulfilled until the future tribulation (e.g. Revelation 6:12, Revelation 8:7, Revelation 17:16, Revelation 16:19). And Joel 2:32 won't be ultimately fulfilled until Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Zechariah 12:10-14).

 

[101c]

Bible2, GINOLJC.

Bible 2 said, And Joel 2:32 won't be ultimately fulfilled until Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Zechariah 12:10-14).

Yes, and that second coming was at Pentecost, Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call". deliverance here is salvation. Jesus is that salvation, listen to John the baptist father prophesy, Luke 1:67 "And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant". is this not bared out in what the apostle peter said in acts. Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call". what did Joel say in 2:32?, the scripture in question, "and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call". there it is. and the apostle Peter confirmed it in Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved".

so, Joel 2:32 was fulfilled in the birth of Christ, his first coming, and, Zechariah 14:2-21, Zechariah 12:10-14, was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost, with the out pouring, and the nation gathering, which is Jesus second coming, "without appearing". don't get his second coming confused with his second "appearing", (see Hebrews 9:28). here are those supportive scripture, Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance". now verse 5, the gathering of the nations. "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven".

so both, Joel and Zechariah was fulfilled. Salvation, and Grace appeared.

be blessed,
​

"where there is knowledge stay not ignorant"​

 

[heavenlessstar]

The first thing we need to determine is when is "The great and terrible day of the lord"?

...

BEFORE the curse....so before the tribulation starts.

When paul is speaking of 'the day of the lord' in 1 thessalonians 5:3 he says they will be saying peace and safety right before the day of the lord begins so it is a pre-tribulation time that Elijah arrives on the scene because Elijah will be sent "BEFORE" the day of the lord:

1 thessalonians 5:3:
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
.....

I believe Moses and Elijah will arrive on Rosh Ha'shana because the fact that two witnesses are needed to declare the sighting of the first trace of the moon has clear prophetic significance. The two olive trees (two witnesses) almost have to be arriving this night, standing before the God of the Earth, and I believe the bride of Christ is caught up to be hidden for seven years.