When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?

[heavenlessstar]

You couldn't answer my question but I will: I shall know by his fruit.

 

[Bible2]

zeke37 said in post 174:

and I really don't believe the meeting in the air part

it makes more sense that 1Thes4 is mirroring 1Cor15
and thus the words air=spirit, clouds=mass multitude/clouds of heaven

1 Thessalonians 4:17's "air" will be the literal air, like the air in 1 Corinthians 9:26, 1 Corinthians 14:9, and Acts 22:23 is the literal air. But the air in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 will be up in the sky (as high as the clouds), like the air in Revelation 9:2 and Revelation 16:17 will be the literal air up in the sky.

The church won't be changed into spirit at Jesus' 2nd coming, but resurrected (if dead) or changed (if alive) into immortal flesh and bone bodies like Jesus was resurrected into (Luke 24:39, 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25). Also, Paul doesn't refer to the "air" in 1 Corinthians 15, and nothing there (or anywhere else) requires that he was using "air" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as a synonym for spirit.

The purpose of the rapture (the catching up) isn't to change the bodies of living believers into immortal bodies, but to "catch up" both their changed bodies and the just-resurrected bodies of dead believers into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus at his 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). The changed, living believers will be raptured (caught up) "together with them" (1 Thessalonians 4:17), that is, together with the just-resurrected, dead believers (1 Thessalonians 4:16b-17).

zeke37 said in post 174:

it makes more sense that 1Thes4 is mirroring 1Cor15
and thus the words air=spirit, clouds=mass multitude/clouds of heaven

Regarding "clouds=mass multitude", Hebrews 12:1 refers to a singular, already-existing, and only-figurative "cloud" of only-Old Testament witnesses (Hebrews 11), whereas 1 Thessalonians 4:17, Matthew 24:30, and Revelation 1:7 refer to plural, not-yet-existing, clouds which will be literal, like Luke 9:34's literal cloud (up on a mountain: Luke 9:28). But the clouds of 1 Thessalonians 4:17, Matthew 24:30, and Revelation 1:7 will be up in the sky (the first heaven), the literal air, like Acts 1:9's literal cloud was "up" in the sky, and like the literal cloud in which the two witnesses will ascend bodily "up" to heaven (Revelation 11:12).

At his 2nd coming, Jesus will be literally seen in literal clouds (Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30), just as lightning is seen in literal clouds (Matthew 24:27). But the literal clouds in Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30, and 1 Thessalonians 4:17 could cover the raptured church in the sky from the view of the world, while the church is being judged by the just-returned Jesus (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27), and then the obedient part of the church gets married to the just-returned Jesus (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), in the sky (the first heaven) (Revelation 19:14).

zeke37 said in post 174:

if its a reference to the day of the Lord,
then its supposed to be referencing the one and only future day of the Lord

so the only answer I can come up with
is that the unfaithful Christians deceived under the beast
only think that the antichrist is the true Christ,
and thus think his coming is Christ's Coming, thus wrath time
(which is why men/they declare it, not angels etc)

Regarding "only think that the antichrist is the true Christ", "anti"-Christ can simply refer to anyone who is "against" the true Christ, as in anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the first century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

Note that nothing requires that the Antichrist will ever claim to be the Messiah/Christ, for his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) could be the false Christ (i.e. the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 John 2:22) during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

But none of this means that there won't also be multiple, human false Christs who will arise during the tribulation (Matthew 24:24), including one who will be an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the tribulation, the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a), promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers that they can keep for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a) a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

zeke37 said in post 174:

he will be pretending to be Jesus,
so he will not be trying to dissuade folks from believing in God.

Note that nothing requires that the Antichrist himself will ever pretend to be Jesus. But it's still important for Christians to realize that during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), even though the world will worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), this won't require that the Antichrist's one-world religion will say that Jesus is evil, or will turn the world against Jesus. For almost the entire world reveres Jesus, at least as being a good man. The Antichrist could confirm this basic world belief, but simply (in his words) "clarify" that while Jesus is indeed a good man, Jesus himself isn't the Christ or the Son of God (1 John 2:22). No doubt the Antichrist will also deny that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, as this, just as believing that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36), is one of the core beliefs of the gospel by which people become saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So what the Antichrist could do is keep the idea of a good Jesus, but strip it of everything by which Jesus saves people from hell. And this wouldn't require that the Antichrist deny Jesus' 2nd coming. Indeed, the Antichrist and his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) could even try to employ to their own ends the Biblical prophecy of Jesus' 2nd coming, as well as the Muslim prophecy which says that the miracle-working prophet Jesus will return bodily from heaven in the last days to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. For the False Prophet could claim that he is Jesus, returned to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. And he could perform amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof of his claim (cf. John 3:2). This is one reason why it's so important to know when and how the real Jesus' 2nd coming will happen (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

The person whom the Antichrist will revile is YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), whom many people mistakenly think of as being (in their words) "the God of only the Old Testament, that cruel and hateful God who ordered people to commit genocide and kill babies (1 Samuel 15:3), while Jesus came and preached love for everyone (Matthew 5:44)". The truth is that Jesus confirmed that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), is the same as the God of the New Testament (Mark 12:29-31), and that the Old Testament is true (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-48). Jesus died for our sins in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (Isaiah 53; 1 Peter 2:24). And he rose from the dead in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (e.g. Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31). Jesus died to establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34). And Jesus died to bring about the defeat of Satan (Hebrews 2:14), which YHWH had foretold from even the first book of the Old Testament (Genesis 3:15).

Nonetheless, building on many people's misconceptions of YHWH as being (in their words) "the cruel God of the Old Testament", no doubt one of the Antichrist's chief blasphemies against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) will be that YHWH is an evil god. This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The world will be deceived into completely rejecting YHWH and worshipping Satan and the Antichrist instead (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9). Satan may be worshipped not as "Satan", which most everyone sees as a bad name (it means "Adversary"), but as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12), which means "the morning star". The Antichrist could lie and say that it's YHWH who is the true "Satan", the true "Adversary" of mankind.

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because they will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) instead (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), they could lie and say that (the non-mortal flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the new name of Christ (Revelation 3:12c) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

The truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18). Jesus Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus Christ identified himself with only the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4). Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (cf. John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24), returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say that he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine "Son" of Lucifer, who must be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians now rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as God (the Son) along with God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before the real Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:20 to 20:3).

 

[Bible2]

zeke37 said in post 174:

I think this is during the 10 days of Awe
between Trumpets and Atonement

The vials might last 75 days. For Daniel 12:11-12 and Revelation 16:15 could mean that 1,335 literal days after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31), Jesus' 2nd coming will occur, and blessed are those believers who wait and remain obedient until that day. And if the literal 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 12:6) will begin when the abomination of desolation is set up, and if the 7 vials of God's wrath will begin on the day after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:15,19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), and if the first 6 vials will be poured out over 30 days, then the 6th vial could be poured out on the 1,290th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11).

It's on this 1,290th day that the blessing of Daniel 12:12 and Revelation 16:15 could be given, after the 6th vial has been poured out (Revelation 16:12), encouraging those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time to keep holding on just 45 more days until Jesus' 2nd coming on the 1,335th day. The 45 days could be taken up by the gathering together of the world's armies to Armageddon (Revelation 16:14,16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) and then their moving south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus' 2nd coming and their total defeat (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).

zeke37 said in post 174:

na, Jesus returns at the 7th trump.

Only after the destruction of Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" at the 7th vial, the final event of the tribulation, is completed (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2), will Jesus return and rapture (gather together) and marry the church (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

Mark 13:20 can mean that all flesh on the earth would die if the Lord hadn't already shortened, as in "he hath shortened" (Mark 13:20b), the number of days of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Matthew 24, and Mark 13. The Lord could have already determined, from the beginning of Creation (cf. Isaiah 46:10), that he will return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). And the Lord will return "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), immediately after its final event, the worldwide destruction during the 7th vial (Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6). So Mark 13:20 can mean that if the Lord hadn't shortened the number of days of the tribulation, then all flesh on the earth would die during the 7th vial's aftermath, which could be a nuclear-winter scenario (which the Lord will miraculously prevent at his return) brought on by the 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire nuking the cities of the earth at the 7th vial (Revelation 17:16-17a, Revelation 16:19).

Mark 13:20 doesn't require (as is sometimes claimed) that the time had been shortened compared with the 1,335 days of Daniel 12:11-12. For they can be the shortened time, compared with some longer period in which all flesh on the earth would die.

zeke37 said in post 174:

na, Jesus returns at the 7th trump.
that's the whole reason behind ALL the feasts of the Lord.
that is what they held the festival of Trumpets in honour of

A New Covenant feast of trumpets could begin at the post-trib, 2nd coming trumpet (Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Corinthians 15:52), which could sound some 75 days after the 7th trumpet which will sound during the tribulation (Revelation 11:15).

zeke37 said in post 174:

sorry, I don't believe in a third Jewish temple.

Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 require that there will be a 3rd Jewish temple in the earthly Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple will coexist with the church like the 2nd temple did (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17) and like the temple building in heaven does (Revelation 11:19). The 3rd temple could be built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount by the ultra-Orthodox Jews after they (or great earthquakes) clear the site by destroying the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. Shortly after they build the temple, the Antichrist could attack and defeat them and a false Messiah leading them (Daniel 11:22).

Then the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23a), permitting them to keep the temple, and to continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of it, for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims, so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. The ultra-Orthodox Jews could grudgingly agree to this, if the only other option is for them to lose the temple entirely. They could then build a high wall between the temple and the mosque, in order to keep the temple from being defiled.

But then, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

At the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the 2nd coming there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the 3rd temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left on another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a 4th temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the church during the future millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the 2nd temple served for the church in the first century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17) and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).

~

One reason that the 3rd Jewish temple hasn't been built yet is the Israeli government is protecting the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest buildings in Islam, right after those in Mecca and Medina), knowing that if the ultra-Orthodox Jews were to destroy these buildings in order to clear the Temple Mount for a 3rd Jewish temple, this could mean the end of the state of Israel. For enraged Muslim armies and militias could attack Israel en masse in an all-out jihad and defeat it completely. While the ultra-Orthodox Jews are no doubt aware of this danger, they believe that the 3rd temple must nonetheless be built exactly where the prior temples stood: right over the Rock of Sacrifice (the Rock of the Dome of the Rock) on which Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac. And the ultra-Orthodox Jews could be brought to the point where they will even desire to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel, believing that only in its demise will God make it possible for them to establish a new, perfectly ultra-Orthodox, theocratic state of Israel.

Something that could bring the ultra-Orthodox Jews to this point would be them getting squeezed out of their settlements in Samaria and Judaea (also called the West Bank), and in East Jerusalem, as part of a peace deal handing these areas over to a Palestinian state. For the ultra-Orthodox Jews (rightly) see Samaria, Judaea, and Jerusalem as the historically most important and holy parts of the land promised by God to Israel since the time of Abraham (Exodus 32:13). So when they start to get squeezed out of these areas, in a rage they could suddenly mass in their tens of thousands, armed with machine guns (which they're allowed to have for self-defense against the Palestinians). And led by 3 huge bulldozers, they could march as a great army to the Old City of Jerusalem, and go up onto the Temple Mount and destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (or simply clear way their rubble, if they've already been destroyed by great earthquakes by that time).

Besides getting squeezed out of their settlements, something else that could tip the scales toward this happening would be the rising up of a miracle-working, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (cf. Matthew 24:24), who could tell the ultra-Orthodox Jews something like:

"God says that now is the time for us to take back religious control of the Holy Temple Mount, and rid it of all the detestable shrines which the Muslims have placed upon it. We are to sanctify it in the name of our God, so that we might rebuild His Holy Temple there. Listen, my brethren, fear not the Muslims' reaction when we retake religious control of the Holy Temple Mount. For God Himself is with us. He will protect us perfectly. Have I not shown you His mighty Power working through Me? Fear not any men, but fear only our Mighty God, who now commands us to rebuild His Holy Temple at the place He determined from the time of our Father Abraham. Our God gave us back the Holy Temple Mount way back in 1967 C.E. But what have we done with it over all the time since then? Nothing! How can this be? How can we have allowed some merely-secular, so-called 'Israeli' government invented by sinful men to keep us, God's holy people, from even setting foot back on the Temple Mount? Let us rise up, my brethren! Let us all rise up, in the name of our God, and let us do mighty exploits to the Glory of His Holy Name!"

Something else that could help tip the scales regarding the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is their finding out the location of the Ark of the Covenant, which could be buried under an ancient ruined fort in the desert east of Jerusalem. The Copper Scroll could contain the clues as to where the Ark is buried in the fort (e.g. "under the third step"). The Ark could have been located there already with ground-penetrating radar by some non-religious treasure hunters, but the Israeli government could be holding up a digging permit to retrieve the Ark because the government is afraid that the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see the discovery of the Ark as (in their words) "an unmistakable sign from God that now is the time for us to rebuild His Holy Temple". So the Israeli government has a motive to keep the location of the buried Ark top secret.

zeke37 said in post 174:

today, we are the temple of God according to Paul

While the church as a whole is a figurative temple building (Ephesians 2:21), it isn't the only temple of God. For it coexists with the literal temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and with the temple of Jesus' individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19). And if the church-as-a-whole temple can currently coexist with all these other temples of God, it will be able to coexist with the future, 3rd-earthly-literal temple building which Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 show will exist in Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple building will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the 2nd temple building was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' first coming (Matthew 23:21) and even at the time of the early church (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17).

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the 3rd temple, and they will offer animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which remains holy before God (Romans 7:12). That's why God still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in his temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and why it was possible for the apostle Paul one time to involve himself with the 2nd temple's Old Covenant Mosaic law practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26; 1 Corinthians 9:20). This isn't to say that the Jesus-denying motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the Old-Covenant-Mosaic-law 3rd temple in itself and its animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God because the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6) because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus and his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).

zeke37 said in post 174:

today, we are the temple of God according to Paul
because God does not dwell in man made buildings.

Acts 7:48-50 and Acts 17:24 refer back to the principle of Isaiah 66:1-2a, which was true even at the time of Solomon's temple (2 Chronicles 2:6). It means that the Creator God YHWH is too big to dwell only in temples made with hands. For it's not contradicting the fact that God did dwell in Solomon's temple (1 Kings 8:11) and then in the 2nd temple (Matthew 23:21). And so nothing requires that he won't also dwell in the 3rd temple which will be built during the future tribulation (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and then in the 4th temple, which will be built during the future millennium (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13).

 

[Jon Anon]

25 days til the arrival of elijah

 

[Time Watcher]

Do you have your story prepared for when your false prophecy does not come to pass?

I will ask you to explain yourself you know

 

[Jon Anon]

24 hours either way from the sign of revelation 12 that happens october 6 2013 at 8:30 pm central time

 

[Time Watcher]

Do you mean 10/6/2013?

If not .... you missed your own false prophecy

If so .... I will remind you of your false prophecy just after 10/06/2013

You should not come to a Christian message board and play games ... try some video games for your entertainment ... there are scads of them on the Internet

 

[Jon Anon]

24 days left

 

[Jon Anon]

21 days left

 

[Jon Anon]

17 days left

 

[JonDavid365]

Just as John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah (meaning the same type of power and influence that Elijah had), so will the spirit of Elijah be seen via the "two witnesses" of Revelation, who are the living saints who will testify for 3.5 years before the return of Christ. Since we know that Elijah is dead and awaits the first resurrection, just like everyone else, we can know that the language is symbolic. Rev. 11

 

[Time Watcher]

Revelation 11 is not symbolic, but literal .... any symbols contained are defined either in the passage or in other related scriptures

Elijah the prophet is dead and waiting for the Lord's call, he is one of the Lord's ecclesia

However the Lord has told that Elijah has already come and was John the Baptist who did come before the great and terrible day of the Lord which is still pending at this time

John the Baptist is also dead, a member of the Lord's ecclesia, and is waiting for His call

The two prophets of the Lord in Revelation 11 are coming and will be mortals who will witness for the Lord against the Satan's beast and his followers during the last half of the 70th week decreed for Israel [3.5 prophetic years, 1260 days, 42 months] [Revelation 13:1-4]

Both will bring judgments upon the beast and his kingdom until he kills them .... then the Lord will resurrect them for all to see

 

[dfw69]

IMO we won't see the return of Elijah in our lifetime. Elijah comes in a time when 10 kingdoms form, when Babylon is rebuilt and thriving, and Israel has enlarge he borders.

If anything false Elijah's will come first to deceive and help set up and restore Israel to a false glory like never before

 

[Time Watcher]

Well, I have to tell you that your story does not fit the prophetic visions

Is this your own set of ideas, or is some one teaching you?

 

[dfw69]

Well, I have to tell you that your story does not fit the prophetic visions

Is this your own set of ideas, or is some one teaching you?

My own what does not fit? Start with one please thank you bud peace

 

[Time Watcher]

Do you really want me to explain?

If so confirm, but keep in mind that I will not engage in extended argumentation .... just so you know

I will work with reasonable individuals who are willing to learn more of the Lord's truth

So let me know .... I don't have time right now, but will possibly be able to answer soon

 

[dfw69]

Do you really want me to explain?

If so confirm, but keep in mind that I will not engage in extended argumentation .... just so you know

I will work with reasonable individuals who are willing to learn more of the Lord's truth

So let me know .... I don't have time right now, but will possibly be able to answer soon

No problem ...I'm glad to share with open minded people who are willing to hear outside the box and I'd like to hear your thoughts. So anytime when have time peace

 

[dfw69]

Revelation 11 is not symbolic, but literal .... any symbols contained are defined either in the passage or in other related scriptures

Elijah the prophet is dead and waiting for the Lord's call, he is one of the Lord's ecclesia

However the Lord has told that Elijah has already come and was John the Baptist who did come before the great and terrible day of the Lord which is still pending at this time

John the Baptist is also dead, a member of the Lord's ecclesia, and is waiting for His call

The two prophets of the Lord in Revelation 11 are coming and will be mortals who will witness for the Lord against the Satan's beast and his followers during the last half of the 70th week decreed for Israel [3.5 prophetic years, 1260 days, 42 months] [Revelation 13:1-4]

Both will bring judgments upon the beast and his kingdom until he kills them .... then the Lord will resurrect them for all to see

To say Elijah is dead is against scripture IMO even Jews believe and know he was taken to heaven not seeing death but lives even now and returns one day

 

[Bible2]

Time Watcher said in post 192:

Revelation 11 is not symbolic, but literal .... any symbols contained are defined either in the passage or in other related scriptures

That's right, just as Revelation as a whole is almost entirely literal, for it's unsealed (Revelation 22:10), meaning that it shouldn't be difficult for saved people of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it's written: chronologically and almost-entirely literally. The few parts of it that are symbolic are almost always explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 1:20, Revelation 17:9-12). And Revelation's few symbols not explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 13:2) are usually explained elsewhere in the Bible (e.g. Daniel 7:4-7,17).

Just as Jesus' 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally, so the events of the preceding tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally. Also, the millennium in Revelation 20 will be literal, and will begin after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21), when he will reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11). After that, the events of Revelation 20:7 to 22:5 will occur literally.

Time Watcher said in post 192:

Elijah the prophet is dead and waiting for the Lord's call, he is one of the Lord's ecclesia

Elijah never died, but was taken bodily into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b).

(See also post 169)

 

[Bible2]

dfw69 said in post 193:

Elijah comes in a time when 10 kingdoms form, when Babylon is rebuilt and thriving, and Israel has enlarge he borders.

On what verses do you base the last condition?

Regarding Elijah coming in a time when 10 kingdoms form, the 10 horns/kings of the beast in its Antichrist's-empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3,12) could be 10 men whom the Antichrist will appoint as kings over 10 major nations, which nations could be the 10 horns in Daniel 7:24. For in Daniel 7, the first 3 beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The 4th beast, or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman Empire. And the 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman Empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa.

These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand, and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other, could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one confederation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the 10 as a singular "kingdom". The person who brings this about could be the Antichrist. The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the Antichrist will arise from a little country.

And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman Empire. And before that, it was part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these 4 kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist confederation of 3 of the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This confederation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

This Baathist confederation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.

dfw69 said in post 193:

Elijah comes in a time when 10 kingdoms form, when Babylon is rebuilt and thriving, and Israel has enlarge he borders.

Regarding "when Babylon is rebuilt and thriving", the 7 heads of the beast in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3) represent 7 empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. The first 5 had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the first century AD: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10, Revelation 1:1b-2). The 6th (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The 7th (possibly Islam) hadn't come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, 8th head (Revelation 17:11), which will be a revival of one of the 5 empires that had fallen by the time of John (Revelation 17:8,10,11). It will be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist will transform the present-day, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq) into the capital of his world empire, only to see his city of Babylon ultimately destroyed at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 13).

Before the 2nd coming, when the world is brought into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist, during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist will build their main temple in the city of Babylon. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

The Antichrist may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system that Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15). The Antichrist may also claim to be, at the same time, the return of Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Genesis 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, and other famous rulers of the past. For he may claim that he has had many different "past lives" as various "enlightened" rulers.

Besides building a main temple in Babylon, the Antichrist will also sit (at least one time) in a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and declare himself God there (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in other religions' holiest shrines, and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could also sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc.