Jon Anon said in post 204:
When paul is speaking of 'the day of the lord' in 1 thessalonians 5:3 he says they will be saying peace and safety right before the day of the lord begins so it is a pre-tribulation time that Elijah arrives on the scene because Elijah will be sent "BEFORE" the day of the lord:
1 thessalonians 5:3:
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
The day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at the Lord Jesus Christ's 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, "immediately after" the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8), which is when the rapture will occur (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
1 Thessalonians 5:3 could include reference to when, near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, at the two witnesses' death at the legal end of the Antichrist's 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 11:8,15, Revelation 13:5-18), the unsaved world will rejoice and make merry, because it will then be free from the tormenting plagues from the two witnesses (Revelation 11:10,6). But little will the unsaved world realize that the plagues of the 7 vials of God's judgment and wrath will then be poured out upon it (Revelation 16). And then Jesus will return and bring the 2nd-coming judgment and wrath of God (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3).
The unsaved people of the world will have no idea that most of them are going to be killed at Jesus' 2nd coming until it happens (Matthew 24:37-39). For they could think that the 2nd coming had already occurred with the coming into power of the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20), who could claim to be Jesus returned. And just as the people of the world shortly before Noah's flood, even though they could see or hear about Noah building his huge ark, no doubt rejected the idea that YHWH had the power to actually cause a global flood which would kill them, so the people of the world at the end of the future tribulation could reject the idea that YHWH has the power to actually defeat them.
For during the tribulation's 2nd half, the world will see the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and his fallen angels (Revelation 12:9), and the power Lucifer will give to the Antichrist to take over the entire earth (Revelation 13:4-8), and to utterly revile YHWH year after year without being destroyed (Revelation 13:5-6, Daniel 11:36), and to physically overcome and kill people in the church in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). And the world will see the amazing miraculous powers that Lucifer will give to the Antichrist's False Prophet, by which he will be able to even call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone (Revelation 13:13, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:9).
And near the end of the future tribulation, the world will see the Antichrist's defeat of YHWH's amazingly-powerful two witnesses (Revelation 11:3-9), after which defeat the world will rejoice and make merry and send gifts to each other because the two witnesses had been sending plagues on the world (Revelation 11:10,6). And even though those plagues will be shortly followed by even more plagues from YHWH, poured out directly from heaven (Revelation 16, the tribulation's final stage), the people of the world won't lose their confidence that YHWH can still be defeated. For after almost all of the plagues from heaven are over, the world will see the awesome miraculous powers of some unclean spirits, convincing the world's armies to gather together for a battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:13-14, Revelation 19:19). And so the world could come to that battle at the very end of the tribulation with the same careless attitude as some people at the start of the American Civil War, who held picnics at the expected first battleground of Bull Run/Manassas to watch the battle and what they expected to be a quick and easy victory.
Jon Anon said in post 204:
The next thing we need to look at is the misconception that the tribulation period is only 7 years long when revelation 2:10 states you will have tribulation 10 days which represent 10 years:
Rev 2:10:
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer : behold , the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried ; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
The 10 days of Revelation 2:10 can be 10 literal days that already happened in ancient times, just as Revelation 3:10 already happened in ancient times. For the 7 epistles to 7 churches in Revelation chapters 2-3 were sent to 7 literal, first century AD local church congregations in 7 cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) (what's today western Turkey).
Revelation 3:10 meant that the literal, first century AD local church congregation in the city of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) would be kept safe from a persecution which came upon all the Roman world during the time of the Roman emperor Domitian. For the apostle John saw his Revelation vision (Revelation 1:1) near the end of Domitian's reign (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c), and Domitian persecuted the church toward the end of his reign. The righteous, literal, first century AD local church congregation in the city of Smyrna (Revelation 2:8) in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11) had to suffer and die in that persecution over a period of 10 literal days (Revelation 2:10).
The first century AD church in Philadelphia didn't have to be taken out of the world to be kept safe from (Greek: "ek") that persecution. For, as Jesus prayed for the church in general: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from (ek) the evil" (John 17:15,20). Also, the first century AD church in Philadelphia didn't have to be removed from time itself, or from the earth, in order to be kept from the "hour" (or the "time") of that persecution, just as, for example, a student in a classroom who has been excused from taking a test doesn't have to be removed from time itself, or from the classroom, in order to be excused from that time of testing. For he can be made to sit at his desk reading during that time, which won't be a time of testing for him.
Also, the first century AD persecution of Revelation 3:10 (and Revelation 2:10) was only "world"-wide in the sense of the Roman "world" (cf. Luke 2:1). So the subsequent reference to those on the "earth" in Revelation 3:10 should be understood as those Christians living on the earth during that time in the Roman Empire, as opposed to those Christians who had already died and gone to heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23).
Jon Anon said in post 204:
There is a time known as Jacobs trouble and people automatically throw this time period in with the 7 year tribulation when actually it should be 42 months prior and separate to the 7 year tribulation bringing the total tribulation to 10 days(years) as stated in Rev 2:10
The time of Jacob's trouble which he will be saved out of (Jeremiah 30:7) won't be before or during the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, but will be only the final pillaging of the Jews in Jerusalem at the very end of the tribulation, right before Jesus returns and saves them (Zechariah 14:2-5). The church, including Gentile believers (Revelation 7:9,14), will be in the tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6).
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Jon Anon said in post 206:
This will happen to bring the lost 10 tribes into the area of Israel so that after the furnace of affliction (Jacobs trouble) that they will join judah and benjamin that make up geographical Israel today.
Note that there are no lost tribes, insofar as the 10 northern tribes weren't entirely lost to history. In 722 BC, the northern kingdom of Israel fell and its individuals were taken into captivity into Assyria (2 Kings 18:11), never to return to the land of Israel. They and their descendants were lost to history. But the 10 northern tribes in themselves weren't lost to history. For some 200 years before the captivity of the northern kingdom, when it had first become idolatrous, some individuals from all 10 of the northern tribes had left the northern kingdom to become part of the southern kingdom of Judah (2 Chronicles 11:16-17), and so by definition they all became Jews. That's why later, the Jews living in the first century AD could be referred to as including all 12 tribes (Acts 26:7, James 1:1), and why at that time Anna could be said to be of the northern tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36), one of the so-called "lost" tribes.
So the people alive today who are descended genetically from a first century AD Jew would include individuals from all 12 tribes. Some of these descendants could know that they're Jews, because their individual ancestors over the last 2,000 years kept their Jewish identity and didn't intermarry with Gentiles. But others of these descendants could know themselves only as Gentiles, because their individual ancestors over the last 2,000 years eventually abandoned their Jewish identity and intermarried freely with Gentiles, to the point where their descendants alive today are almost entirely Gentile genetically. Similarly, regarding the individuals of the northern kingdom of Israel who were lost to history at its captivity, over the past 2,700 years their descendants must have eventually abandoned their Israelite identity and freely intermarried with Gentiles, to the point where their descendants alive today would know themselves only as Gentiles, and would be almost entirely Gentile genetically.
Also, while God knows which people alive today are descended from one of the 12 sons of Jacob/Israel from whom the 12 genetic tribes arose (Genesis 49:28), nonelect Israelites/Jews aren't considered by God to be truly Israel (Romans 9:6-11), or truly Jews (Revelation 2:9b, Revelation 3:9), or God's children, or Abraham's children, but the children of the devil (John 8:39-47), just as all the nonelect, no matter whether they're Jews or Gentiles, are considered by God to be the children of the devil (Matthew 13:38-39).
Some genetic Israelites are believers, and so are members of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6) and Israel at the same time, just as, for example, the genetic Jew Paul (Acts 22:3) is a member of the church and Israel at the same time (Romans 11:1). And some non-believing, genetic Israelites are still considered by God to be Israel insofar as they're elect (Romans 11:25,28). All the elect, non-believing, genetic Israelites who don't become believers before Jesus' 2nd coming will become believers (and so will become members of the church: Ephesians 4:4-6) at the 2nd coming (Romans 11:26), when they see the returned Jesus in person (Zechariah 12:10-14). But even though all elect, genetic Israelites will eventually be saved, they're only a remnant of all genetic Israelites (Romans 9:27), most of whom will never be saved, just as most of humanity in general, both Jews and Gentiles, will never be saved (Matthew 7:14, Matthew 22:14).
