When was the beast in Rev 17:8 first appeared on the earth?

[Douggg]

Okay, just ignore the scripture which says that Satan IS the serpent then.

You are ignoring that the serpent beast who was used by Satan was cursed to crawl on his belly in the dust.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

But the antiChrist is going to sit in the Temple of God. That's the Church.

The little horn, the prince who shall come, the Antichrist, the revealed man of sin, the beast - is all one person, at different times in his life.

It is a progression (not in a good way).

first as the little horn - leader of the EU.
then following Gog/Magog - as the prince who shall come.
then he is anointed the King of Israel - to become the Antichrist.
then he reveals himself as the man of sin - ending his time as the Antichrist.
then he is killed and brought back to life as the beast - dictator of the EU, his kingdom, and that of the ten kings of Revelation 17:18.
_________________________________________________________________

The person, you are calling the Antichrist, is a separate person from the false prophet.

The Antichrist person will come out of the nations, specifically the EU.

Differently, the false prophet will come out if Israel (and will for a while, will be thought by the Jews to be the prophet Elijah).

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Revelation does say that he will come back to life, right?

That who will come back to life?

If God permits, the angels can possibly manipulate our bodies, since they saw how we were created (possibly). It wouldn't be a real resurrection, unlike Christ's. More of an animation.

You're resorting to speculation here. We should base our beliefs on clear scripture and not speculation.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

You are ignoring that the serpent beast who was used by Satan was cursed to crawl on his belly in the dust.

Serpent can be translated as seraph. Eve might have seen an angel or there might be some sort of creational link between these kinds of angels and earthly serpents.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

That who will come back to life?

The Beast. Doesn't he have a head wound that heals or something?

You're resorting to speculation here. We should base our beliefs on clear scripture and not speculation.

The fallen angels manipulate our bodies when we are possessed and they manipulated us to produce the Nephilim

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You are ignoring that the serpent beast who was used by Satan was cursed to crawl on his belly in the dust.

That happened to all other serpents/snakes at that time as well. And all serpents/snakes still crawl on their bellies to this day. That serpent/snake that Satan talked through has been long dead and does not have a spirit that can possess some dead guy in the future. You have quite the imagination.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I don't think that all serpents crawl on their bellies bc of what Satan did.

That happened to all other serpents/snakes at that time as well. And all serpents/snakes still crawl on their bellies to this day. That serpent/snake that Satan talked through has been long dead and does not have a spirit that can possess some dead guy in the future. You have quite the imagination.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The Beast. Doesn't he have a head wound that heals or something?

Keep in mind that prophetic beasts don't have to be men, but can be kingdoms instead.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

The fallen angels manipulate our bodies when we are possessed and they manipulated us to produce the Nephilim

Did they do that to dead bodies? No. So, what you're saying doesn't even relate to what we're talking about.

 

[Douggg]

That happened to all other serpents/snakes at that time as well. And all serpents/snakes still crawl on their bellies to this day. That serpent/snake that Satan talked through has been long dead and does not have a spirit that can possess some dead guy in the future. You have quite the imagination.

The serpent in the garden was likely human-like in appearance and communication ability.

We definitely don't know for sure.

For example, Nebuchadnezzar was reduced to being beast like, and living among the beasts, and grazed in the fields like the oxen, until his mind was restored.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Keep in mind that prophetic beasts don't have to be men, but can be kingdoms instead.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Interesting

Did they do that to dead bodies? No. So, what you're saying doesn't even relate to what we're talking about.

I said possibly.

 

[Petros2015]

That happened to all other serpents/snakes at that time as well. And all serpents/snakes still crawl on their bellies to this day.

I suspect we'd call them "dragons" if they didn't.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I suspect we'd call them "dragons" if they didn't.

In Rev. he is still called a dragon.

 

[Petros2015]

In Rev. he is still called a dragon.

Fancy that.

 

[Douggg]

That happened to all other serpents/snakes at that time as well. And all serpents/snakes still crawl on their bellies to this day.

Snakes became the reminder of the serpent. The serpent itself was the most crafty of the beasts, which would explain his ability to communicate.

 

[Douggg]

In Rev. he is still called a dragon.

The dragon is Revelation is a reference to Satan, agreed.

 

[Petros2015]

You are ignoring that the serpent beast

I kinda liked the graphic actually, never seen the pit laid out like that between bosum and Hell.
It's interesting.

The "craft" in Daniel 8 that the person will be into is Kabbalah

I'm not sure how you narrowed to that specifically, but here's an amusing historical Kaballah figure I ran across earlier today. Kinda-Sorta made messiahish claims after receiving visions, predicted apocolypse 1291, disappeared same year (presumed dead). Also tried to convert the Pope to Judaism. It didn't go well

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Abulafia

Journey to Rome

He went to Rome in 1280 in order to convert Pope Nicholas III to Judaism on the day before Rosh Hashanah. The Pope was in Suriano when he heard of it, and he issued orders to "burn the fanatic" as soon as he reached that place. The stake was erected in preparation close to the inner gate; but Abulafia set out for Suriano all the same and reached there August 22. While passing through the outer gate, he heard that the Pope had died from an apoplectic stroke during the preceding night. He returned to Rome, where he was thrown into prison by the Order of Friars Minor but was liberated after four weeks' detention. He was next heard of in Sicily.

 

[klutedavid]

Keep in mind that prophetic beasts don't have to be men, but can be kingdoms instead.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Did they do that to dead bodies? No. So, what you're saying doesn't even relate to what we're talking about.

Good point.

The beast in Revelation appears to be a man.

Revelation 13:18
Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

The beast is worshiped and I don't think one can worship a kingdom.

 

[Douggg]

I'm not sure how you narrowed to that specifically, but here's an amusing historical Kaballah figure I ran across earlier today. Kinda-Sorta made messiahish claims after receiving visions, predicted apocolypse 1291, disappeared same year. Also tried to convert the Pope to Judaism. It didn't go well

In Judaism, a person has to be married and over 40 years old to pursue Kabbalah.

There is a belief in Jewish Kabbalah, that practitioners of a certain level can have the angels assist to accomplish their (the practitioner's) objectives.

Which will backfire on the little horn person, who will think he will use Satan, but in reality he will become used.

The requirement in Jewish kabballah to be married and over 40 years old came from an incident involving Rabbi Della Reina who was going to speed up the messianic age by placing the Samael (an allusion to Satan) and Lillith (his wife according to Judaism) in chains. Whether it is just a story or a real event, I don't know.

Anyway, the attempt ended in disaster as the Rabbi ended up going off the deep end, and eventually drown himself.

It is an interesting read - the rise and fall of Rabbi Joseph Della Reina...

Dreaming of Moshiach: The Story: Rise and Fall of Rabbi Joseph Della Reina

 

[Petros2015]

Anyway, the attempt ended in disaster as the Rabbi ended up doing off the deep end, and eventually drown himself.
It is an interesting read - the rise and fall of Rabbi Joseph Della Reina...
Dreaming of Moshiach: The Story: Rise and Fall of Rabbi Joseph Della Reina

Yeah I am looking at the wiki article talking about some of Abulafia's meditative techniques and goals (I get the feeling there are a lot of different "branches" of Kaballah) and they could definitely be dangerous.

Which will backfire on the little horn person, who will think he will use Satan, but in reality he will become used.

I could definitely see something like that happening.

 

[pasifika]

Thank you everyone for All your contributions to this topic..

This is my take on the topic regarding the first appearance of the beast of Rev 17:8..

First, he is a man (the 8th king Rev 17:11) also Rev 13 (came up out of sea "originally"),
Also call, the man of sin or lawlessness 2Thess, Daniel 8

First appearance;
Daniel 8 (as little horn)...king Greece also called "prince of Greece) in Daniel 10..