When was the beast in Rev 17:8 first appeared on the earth?

[Torah Keeper]

I suspect it is eithera Babylon or the antediluvian nephilim empire.
It sure can't be Rome. Because God said it "is not".(Not currently a world power when John wrote Revelation).

 

[Torah Keeper]

And bottomless pit is not the ocean. Abyss is not a Greek equivalent of tehom. The bottomless pit is likely a place in Hell. Or possible the center of the Earth.

 

[Petros2015]

Doesn't that alone prove it is in the pit in this age, regardless whether the pit is literal or not?

I'm just thinking it won't be in a good mood when it gets out...

 

[Petros2015]

18 A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke, and sulfur that proceeded from their mouths. 19 For the power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; indeed, their tails were like snakes, having heads with which to inflict harm.

Fire smoke and sulfur from the 'tails'...
1st century prophet had never seen a turret
Or probably even an explosion

 

[Spiritual Jew]

LOL.

There are some Premils that believe the beast in Revelation 13 and satan, these are one and the same. I don't know how they can be Premil by thinking that?

I don't, either, but I also don't know how they can think that at all regardless of whether they're Premil or not. It clearly differentiates between the dragon (Satan) and the beast even though it does imply that they work hand in hand and need each other.

The beast is obviously in the pit in this age, and if the beast is satan, that means satan is in the pit in this age, thus contradicting Premil.

Right. I wonder why they don't realize they are contradicting their own Premil beliefs by believing that? Have they not read Revelation 17:8 which indicates that the beast was in the bottomless pit already at the time John wrote the book?

If some Premils think the beast and satan are one and the same, what about the false prophet then? The Bible never says the false prophet is in the pit then emerges from it eventually. Where did the false prophet come from and when does he initially become relevant? By this I mean, was the false prophet already relevant, for example, 2000 years ago, 3000 years ago, 4000 years ago, etc, or is the false prophet only relevant once the beast ascends out of the pit?

Scripture doesn't specify that, so all any of us can do is speculate on it.

 

[sovereigngrace]

It should be very clear that the Beast is the world system / empires. The only problem is

Rev 17:11 The beast that was and is not—he himself is the eighth, and is one of the seven, and is heading for destruction.

Here it looks like there are 8 beasts. Are they 8 world empires or 8 Roman emperors? The second interpretation would be consistent with

Rev 17:9 “This calls for a mind having wisdom. The seven heads are . . . . also seven kings—

Did John say 8 beasts when he really meant 8 heads?

I am on vacation or I would post my research. I would connect the 7 beasts with 7 wicked global systems that covered the middle east throughout history. The 8th is the full blown overall global release of the beast system or mystery of iniquity (2 Thessalonians 2) under the control of Satan (Rev 20) before the coming of Christ.

 

[Douggg]

Perhaps; but what was and is not and will be again, if it's not a person (which it might be) then it might be an empire

"was and is not and will be again" is a type of phrasing similar to that used in Revelation 1
pertaining to Jesus. So from that, I am very confident that the beast in Revelation 17:8 is a person(s), not an empire.

Best wishes on your studies.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

[Acts29]

Rev 17:8 The beast which you saw, once was, now is Not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not and yet will come..

This is very cleverly written and requires the prior and latter context. After the seven bowls of wrath are poured out, the angel gives chapter 17-18. The 7th bowl of wrath is the battle of Armageddon as described in Rev 19 and Ezekiel 39. That battle includes casting the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire, as well as Satan being cast into the abyss, Rev 20. After these things, Rev 17-18 are given and Satan that once was, but now is not, yet will come up out of the abyss again at the end of the Millennium, as written in Rev 20 and Ezekiel 38. Revelation 17-18 describes the second Babylon arising at the end of the Millennium. Remember, the previous Babylon gets destroyed in Rev 14 which is closer to our time.

 

[DavidPT]

That battle includes casting the beast and false prophet into the abyss, as well as Satan, Rev 20.

Where does any text ever mention the beast and fp also being cast into the pit when satan is? Revelation 19 indicates that the beast and fp are not cast into the pit, they are cast into the lake of fire. When they are cast into the LOF, instead of satan joining them at that time, he is cast into the pit instead. This of course is assuming Premil that the thousand years are after the 2nd coming.

 

[Acts29]

Where does any text ever mention the beast and fp also being cast into the pit when satan is? Revelation 19 indicates that the beast and fp are not cast into the pit, they are cast into the lake of fire. When they are cast into the LOF, instead of satan joining them at that time, he is cast into the pit instead. This of course is assuming Premil that the thousand years are after the 2nd coming.

Yes, you are correct. The chapter breaks were added later. I was trying to convey that Satan being bound in Rev 20 is a continuation of Rev 19, meaning they happen during the same time. But, you are right in that they are not bound together in the same place. I'll fix the post. Thanks.

 

[Timtofly]

LOL.

There are some Premils that believe the beast in Revelation 13 and satan, these are one and the same. I don't know how they can be Premil by thinking that? The beast is obviously in the pit in this age, and if the beast is satan, that means satan is in the pit in this age, thus contradicting Premil. If some Premils think the beast and satan are one and the same, what about the false prophet then? The Bible never says the false prophet is in the pit then emerges from it eventually. Where did the false prophet come from and when does he initially become relevant? By this I mean, was the false prophet already relevant, for example, 2000 years ago, 3000 years ago, 4000 years ago, etc, or is the false prophet only relevant once the beast ascends out of the pit?

There is only one human in Revelation 13. That is the FP. Satan is an angel. The beast is a concoction of Satan. Satan's own "Adam" in the image of the FP. This abomination forces humans to accept their expiration date. 666 is that mark. The mark is a solidarity against God's plan and will.

 

[Andrewn]

I am on vacation or I would post my research. I would connect the 7 beasts with 7 wicked global systems that covered the middle east throughout history. The 8th is the full blown overall global release of the beast system or mystery of iniquity (2 Thessalonians 2) under the control of Satan (Rev 20) before the coming of Christ.

I wish you a pleasant trip. Perhaps after getting back you may remember to post that info .

 

[sovereigngrace]

I wish you a pleasant trip. Perhaps after getting back you may remember to post that info .

Thanks bro. Yes. If I forget please remind me.

 

[Paul4JC]

Rev 17:8 The beast which you saw, once was, now is Not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not and yet will come..

The recently deceased Rob Skiba believed he was Nimrod.

Rob Skiba Uses Scripture and History to Identify the Antichrist

Rob Skiba identifies the Antichrist from Scripture and a potential Omega Plan

 

[sovereigngrace]

It should be very clear that the Beast is the world system / empires. The only problem is

Rev 17:11 The beast that was and is not—he himself is the eighth, and is one of the seven, and is heading for destruction.

Here it looks like there are 8 beasts. Are they 8 world empires or 8 Roman emperors? The second interpretation would be consistent with

Rev 17:9 “This calls for a mind having wisdom. The seven heads are . . . . also seven kings—

Did John say 8 beasts when he really meant 8 heads?

Revelation 13:1: "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.”

Revelation 17:3 says, “So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.”

Revelation 17:7 says, “And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.”

What are these seven heads of the beast? We do not have to guess.

Revelation 17:9-13 further enlarges, “The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.”

There are layers to the symbolism of Revelation. The seven heads represent seven mountains, but the next level of interpretation seems to render the seven mountains seven kingdoms which seven kings reign over. After describing the seven mountains, we learn: “And there are seven kings.” Kings reign over kingdoms, not over physical mountains. The fact is: throughout Scripture, mountains represent kingdoms that kings reign over.

The symbolism is very deliberate. Jerusalem is built on seven mountains, so is Rome. The writer takes these and broadens them out to describe global realties. He may well have lent the idea of the Roman empire to impress the wider influence of godless power through the generations by using the symbolism of seven mountains to depict the completeness of the wickedness of this world.

Mountains in Scripture are often identified with kingdoms. The mountain of the house of God is clearly the kingdom of God. Mountains are identified with carnal kingdoms while hills are associated with smaller worldly nations. The seven heads, which are mountains, represent seven carnal kingdoms that have been arrayed against God’s people in Scripture. Of these seven kingdoms, five are prior to John’s prophecy, one present to him and one is yet future. Moreover, the seventh kingdom is predicted to manifest for “a short space.” Interestingly, there is an eighth kingdom. This is the beast himself, obviously rising up in his own right rather than in a delegated sense (through other evil earthly empires) like before.

The beast is said to be integral to the other seven previous kingdoms; this beast “was” before John – obviously manifesting through the five tributary kingdoms before John, he “is” to John in the form of the one kingdom in existence at the time of John, and one is still future to John as it has “not yet come.” Additional to this we learn, “the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.” The seven kingdoms are seven heads on the beast – thus the beast is described as being “of the seven.” The seven heads are part of this being. The number seven is significant as it normally represents completeness in Scripture. This book places the beast within the complete scheme of this dark antichrist reign.

This beast obviously represents the overall influence of Satan from which all the other individual kingdoms emanate throughout time. The beast system is that demonic spirit/influence/empire overseeing every wicked kingdom upon earth from the beginning. This worldly beast embodies the wickedness that controls the kingdoms of this world. It seems to influence the overall system that is energized by the spirit of this world.

At the cross the beast went “into perdition” being curtailed in his wholesale deluding of the Gentile people. Notwithstanding, the beast is associated with the reign of evil on this earth throughout this intra-Advent period, although restrained from what the beast would have desired through the Gospel influence. Prior to the end this beast is released from his spiritual restraints and moves to the fore. This is his time to finally flex his muscles. This is his final throw.

As he starts to perpetrate his antichrist agenda, the beast establishes “ten kings” to do his dirty work. These operate from within the beast kingdom. They are described as the beast’s “ten horns.” This reign of havoc only seems to be short: they are said to “receive power as kings one hour with the beast.” There is unity amongst these kings, “These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.” These emissaries of the devil's kingdom promote and enforce the devil's antichrist system.

We need to piece together this symbolism and align it with history in order to establish its full meaning. Firstly, Rome was one of the four kingdoms Daniel saw. It was also the existing kingdom when John received this prophesy here. John sees five great kingdoms before the one existing in his day (Rome). Three of the five former kingdoms probably refer to Daniel’s kingdoms: Babylon, Media and Persia and Grecia. This leaves two more – obviously subsequent to them. I believe these refer to the Egyptian Dynasty and the Assyria rule.

1. Egyptian empire
2. Assyrian empire
3. Babylonian empire
4. Media and Persia empire
5. Greek empire (five were)
6. Roman empire (one is existing at the time of the writing of Revelation)
7. One further evil empire (between Rome and the beast at the end)
8. The beast.

Simon Kistermaker suggests a slight modification:

1. Assyrian empire
2. Babylonian empire
3. Neo-Babylonian empire
4. Media and Persia empire
5. Greek empire (five were)
6. Roman empire (one is existing at the time of the writing of Revelation)
7. One further evil empire (between Rome and the beast at the end)
8. The beast.

Many commentators see these kingdoms as those who stood against God’s people but also invaded and subjugated natural Israel.

If we are seeing this right then that still leaves two other significant wicked empires after Rome. Whilst we know the last empire is the beast (after his release from the abyss), that still leaves us with the seventh kingdom which appears before end. With the aid of history, we could certainly speculate what the penultimate wicked kingdom is in-between the Roman Empire (in Bible times) and the last wicked unrestrained manifestation of the beast at the end. A popular view that many Bible students and historians hold is that it is the Ottoman Empire. This was certainly one of the greatest empires in history. Moreover, it actually spanned three continents. This in essence was an Islamic Empire? Whilst there have been other evil systems like Fascism and Communism that have arisen in this past hundred years, the only empire to be a direct threat to Christianity since the Roman Empire of the first century has been the Ottoman Empire. This also totally overrun natural Israel.

1. Egyptian empire
2. Assyrian empire
3. Babylonian empire
4. Media and Persian empire
5. Greek empire
6. Roman empire
7. Ottoman empire (???)
8. The beast empire

It could be argued that Christianity significantly wounded the Ottoman Empire. But today it is returning. The Ottoman empire was of course, Muslim. And we see Islam rising again, and with the same goals of a global Islamic Caliphate. It is today, once again, a direct threat to Christianity (and everybody else for that matter).

Could the revived kingdom be Mystery Babylon – a wicked global manifestation of all that opposes God, and a reflection of the evil character of ancient Babylon. Could it be a revitalized Rome, in the shape of the Roman Catholic Church?

The fact that the beast possesses seven obnoxious heads representing seven evil kingdoms throughout time, five of which were already destroyed before John, the sixth was the Roman Empire existing when he lived, the seventh was to appear somewhere between the Roman Empire, and the second coming of the Lord shows the absurdity of the contention that the beast is a man. What human being in history survived submerged below the sea for more than a few minutes? The next thing the literalist will be telling us is that babies really do come from under cabbage plants!

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 13:1: "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.”

Revelation 17:3 says, “So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.”

Revelation 17:7 says, “And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.”

What are these seven heads of the beast? We do not have to guess.

Revelation 17:9-13 further enlarges, “The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.”

There are layers to the symbolism of Revelation. The seven heads represent seven mountains, but the next level of interpretation seems to render the seven mountains seven kingdoms which seven kings reign over. After describing the seven mountains, we learn: “And there are seven kings.” Kings reign over kingdoms, not over physical mountains. The fact is: throughout Scripture, mountains represent kingdoms that kings reign over.

The symbolism is very deliberate. Jerusalem is built on seven mountains, so is Rome. The writer takes these and broadens them out to describe global realties. He may well have lent the idea of the Roman empire to impress the wider influence of godless power through the generations by using the symbolism of seven mountains to depict the completeness of the wickedness of this world.

Mountains in Scripture are often identified with kingdoms. The mountain of the house of God is clearly the kingdom of God. Mountains are identified with carnal kingdoms while hills are associated with smaller worldly nations. The seven heads, which are mountains, represent seven carnal kingdoms that have been arrayed against God’s people in Scripture. Of these seven kingdoms, five are prior to John’s prophecy, one present to him and one is yet future. Moreover, the seventh kingdom is predicted to manifest for “a short space.” Interestingly, there is an eighth kingdom. This is the beast himself, obviously rising up in his own right rather than in a delegated sense (through other evil earthly empires) like before.

The beast is said to be integral to the other seven previous kingdoms; this beast “was” before John – obviously manifesting through the five tributary kingdoms before John, he “is” to John in the form of the one kingdom in existence at the time of John, and one is still future to John as it has “not yet come.” Additional to this we learn, “the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.” The seven kingdoms are seven heads on the beast – thus the beast is described as being “of the seven.” The seven heads are part of this being. The number seven is significant as it normally represents completeness in Scripture. This book places the beast within the complete scheme of this dark antichrist reign.

This beast obviously represents the overall influence of Satan from which all the other individual kingdoms emanate throughout time. The beast system is that demonic spirit/influence/empire overseeing every wicked kingdom upon earth from the beginning. This worldly beast embodies the wickedness that controls the kingdoms of this world. It seems to influence the overall system that is energized by the spirit of this world.

At the cross the beast went “into perdition” being curtailed in his wholesale deluding of the Gentile people. Notwithstanding, the beast is associated with the reign of evil on this earth throughout this intra-Advent period, although restrained from what the beast would have desired through the Gospel influence. Prior to the end this beast is released from his spiritual restraints and moves to the fore. This is his time to finally flex his muscles. This is his final throw.

As he starts to perpetrate his antichrist agenda, the beast establishes “ten kings” to do his dirty work. These operate from within the beast kingdom. They are described as the beast’s “ten horns.” This reign of havoc only seems to be short: they are said to “receive power as kings one hour with the beast.” There is unity amongst these kings, “These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.” These emissaries of the devil's kingdom promote and enforce the devil's antichrist system.

We need to piece together this symbolism and align it with history in order to establish its full meaning. Firstly, Rome was one of the four kingdoms Daniel saw. It was also the existing kingdom when John received this prophesy here. John sees five great kingdoms before the one existing in his day (Rome). Three of the five former kingdoms probably refer to Daniel’s kingdoms: Babylon, Media and Persia and Grecia. This leaves two more – obviously subsequent to them. I believe these refer to the Egyptian Dynasty and the Assyria rule.

1. Egyptian empire
2. Assyrian empire
3. Babylonian empire
4. Media and Persia empire
5. Greek empire (five were)
6. Roman empire (one is existing at the time of the writing of Rev)
7. One further evil empire (between Rome and the beast at the end)
8. The beast.

Simon Kistermaker suggests a slight modification:

1. Assyrian empire
2. Babylonian empire
3. Neo-Babylonian empire
4. Media and Persia empire
5. Greek empire (five were)
6. Roman empire (one is existing at the time of the writing of Rev)
7. One further evil empire (between Rome and the beast at the end)
8. The beast.

Many commentators see these kingdoms as those who stood against God’s people but also invaded and subjugated natural Israel.

If we are seeing this right then that still leaves two other significant wicked empires after Rome. Whilst we know the last empire is the beast (after his release from the abyss), that still leaves us with the seventh kingdom which appears before end. With the aid of history, we could certainly speculate what the penultimate wicked kingdom is in-between the Roman Empire (in Bible times) and the last wicked unrestrained manifestation of the beast at the end. A popular view that many Bible students and historians hold is that it is the Ottoman Empire. This was certainly one of the greatest empires in history. Moreover, it actually spanned three continents. This in essence was an Islamic Empire? Whilst there have been other evil systems like Fascism and Communism that have arisen in this past hundred years, the only empire to be a direct threat to Christianity since the Roman Empire of the first century has been the Ottoman Empire. This also totally overrun natural Israel.

1. Egyptian empire
2. Assyrian empire
3. Babylonian empire
4. Media and Persian empire
5. Greek empire
6. Roman empire
7. Ottoman empire (???)
8. The beast empire

It could be argued that Christianity significantly wounded the Ottoman Empire. But today it is returning. The Ottoman empire was of course, Muslim. And we see Islam rising again, and with the same goals of a global Islamic Caliphate. It is today, once again, a direct threat to Christianity (and everybody else for that matter).

Could the revived kingdom be Mystery Babylon – a wicked global manifestation of all that opposes God, and a reflection of the evil character of ancient Babylon. Could it be a revitalized Rome, in the shape of the Roman Catholic Church?

The fact that the beast possesses seven obnoxious heads representing seven evil kingdoms throughout time, five of which were already destroyed before John, the sixth was the Roman Empire existing when he lived, the seventh was to appear somewhere between the Roman Empire, and the second coming of the Lord shows the absurdity of the contention that the beast is a man. What human being in history survived submerged below the sea for more than a few minutes? The next thing the literalist will be telling us is that babies really do come from under cabbage plants!

Changing kings to mean kingdoms in Revelation 17:10 will not work....

The little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 and the beast of Revelation are the same person.

The little horn and the ten kings come out of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7, which follow the other three kingdoms of the Babylonians, the Medes/Persians, the Greeks.

The Roman empire in the end times is the EU. Biden is over there right now making close ties. A post rapture US and Canada will be allied with the EU kingdom of the beast which will exert its will over the rest of the world.

Between now and 2026 it appears that the little horn person and the ten kings will be revealed.

 

[pasifika]

Changing kings to mean kingdoms in Revelation 17:10 will not work....

The little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 and the beast of Revelation are the same person.

The little horn and the ten kings come out of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7, which follow the other three kingdoms of the Babylonians, the Medes/Persians, the Greeks.

The Roman empire in the end times is the EU. Biden is over there right now making close ties. A post rapture US and Canada will be allied with the EU kingdom of the beast which will exert its will over the rest of the world.

Between now and 2026 it appears that the little horn person and the ten kings will be revealed.

Hello Doug,
horn in Daniel 7:7,8 came up among 10 horns...(as in Rev 17)


horn in Daniel 8: 8,9 came up among 4
horns...(Also same as beast of Rev 17)

 

[Douggg]

Hello Doug,
horn in Daniel 7:7,8 came up among 10 horns...

horn in Daniel 8: 8,9 came up among 4 horns...

In Daniel 7, the little horn came up among the ten horns on the fearsome beast, not equated to a known beast like the lion, bear, leopard. The leopard being the Greek kingdom, if we look at history.

The imagery changes in Daniel 8 and the Ram represents the Greek kingdom.

In Daniel 8:9 the little emerges out of one of the four horns of the Ram, after the great horn was broken.

In Daniel 8:21 the great horn, the first great king of Greece, a referral to Alexander, his kingdom was divided into four other kingdoms, the four other horns after him.

So that leaves up to interpretation what is meant in Daniel 8:9.

Since he waxes strong to the south and east, toward the promised land - that narrows down which of the four breakup kingdoms -
Greece.

Does that mean the little horn will be a Greek ? Maybe.

But Daniel 9:26 indicates that he will be a Roman though.

The way I interpret Daniel 8:9 is the little horn will, before moving south and east, will stage his strong army in Greece, not that he will be a Greek himself.

The reason he will be staging his army in Greece is because in Daniel 8:23, he "stands up" - an idiom for prepares to go to war.

__________________________________________________

We don't have in Daniel 8 a referral to the fearsome beast kingdom of Daniel 7 except as alluded to as the kingdom of the transgressors (the ten kings) in Daniel 8:23 - as "their kingdom".

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

Which to me indicates when the ten kings are in place - the little horn will make his appearance.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Changing kings to mean kingdoms in Revelation 17:10 will not work....

The little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 and the beast of Revelation are the same person.

The little horn and the ten kings come out of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7, which follow the other three kingdoms of the Babylonians, the Medes/Persians, the Greeks.

The Roman empire in the end times is the EU. Biden is over there right now making close ties. A post rapture US and Canada will be allied with the EU kingdom of the beast which will exert its will over the rest of the world.

Between now and 2026 it appears that the little horn person and the ten kings will be revealed.

Please address the evidence instead of repeating your usual opinions.

 

[pasifika]

• In Daniel 7, the little horn came up among the ten horns on the fearsome beast, not equated to a known beast like the lion, bear, leopard. The leopard being the Greek kingdom, if we look at history.

The imagery changes in Daniel 8 and the Ram represents the Greek kingdom.

In Daniel 8:9 the little emerges out of one of the four horns of the Ram, after the great horn was broken.

In Daniel 8:21 the great horn, the first great king of Greece, a referral to Alexander, his kingdom was divided into four other kingdoms, the four other horns after him

So that leaves up to interpretation what is meant in Daniel 8:9.

Since he waxes strong to the south and east, toward the promised land - that narrows down which of the four breakup kingdoms -
Greece.

Does that mean the little horn will be a Greek ? Maybe.

But Daniel 9:26 indicates that he will be a Roman though.

The way I interpret Daniel 8:9 is the little horn will, before moving south and east, will stage his strong army in Greece, not that he will be a Greek himself.

The reason he will be staging his army in Greece is because in Daniel 8:23, he "stands up" - an idiom for prepares to go to war.

__________________________________________________

We don't have in Daniel 8 a referral to the fearsome beast kingdom of Daniel 7 except as alluded to as the kingdom of the transgressors (the ten kings) in Daniel 8:23 - as "their kingdom".

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

Which to me indicates when the ten kings are in place - the little horn will make his appearance.

Thank you Doug,
The little horn that emerged out of the 4horns pointed to a Greek king (Daniel 8) that is past...( already destroyed)...

The horn that comes out from among the 10 horns are still future..

But if you look at the nature of the horn in Daniel 8 (Greek king or prince) and Rev 13 both have similar in nature..

horn In Daniel 8: 11-25..

• set itself up as commander of army of the Lord
• Took away daily sacrifice
• Thrown down Lord sanctuary
• Seek to destroy the Lords people
• Consider himself superior etc

beast in Rev 13,17

• Blasphemy God
• Wage war with God's people
• Slander God's dwelling place

My point is, this the same beast that exist before as the "Greek king" ,but it will come up as a new king probably not as a Greek but a "Persian king"..Dan 10

The beast who once was, now is Not and yet will come Rev 17