When it comes to other religions, what is the bottom line?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... wrong section....

 

[JacksBratt]

The question of the OP is whether there's another choice besides the Christian bi-view of either heaven or hell.

Some Christians agree there are only two choices. Either believe in Christ or you're off to hell. Other Christians will opine that other religions may have some salvific information in them. Perhaps it arises from the idea that someone who hasn't heard of Christ is automatically sent to hell seems a trifle unjust.

I agree that there is in fact only one way to God (salvation); it is through Christ. Where I disagree is with the view that someone only has a choice while alive on earth. Those in Mt. 27:52-53 were dead and heard and raised to life. There is Abraham, Isaac, Jacob who are alive Mark 12:27. There are many other supporting Scriptures not only of people who were dead who are alive unto eternal life (saved), but of the principle involved.

So, it may be muddy and off the path for those bound by tradition, but to me crystal clear and straight.

I don't believe that someone who hasn't heard of Christ, and therefore not heard the gospel, is going to be left with hell as their eternal home.

All those who did not hear the gospel, for what ever reason, are still held to the just judgement of God. This scripture explains that nobody is without excuse and all people have made a choice. Their attitude and character of their heart will be judged by God:

Romans 1:19-2021st Century King James Version (KJ21)

19 because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shown it unto them.


20 For from the creation of the world the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood through the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

I don't believe for one minute that God would subject people to hell if they were ignorant of the their sinful actions. Everyone knows when they are doing things that are wrong. Even a little kid knows not to pull another kids hair or hurt them, steal a toy from them, tell a lie..... we don't have to be taught these things. As adults, we are even more aware..

One more point...

We are not "sent" to hell. The concept of "believe in Christ OR your off to hell" is in error.

The concept is that you are already going to hell so "believe in Christ and be saved". If not, then, continue on the journey that you have been on all along.

 

[Standing Up]

I don't believe that someone who hasn't heard of Christ, and therefore not heard the gospel, is going to be left with hell as their eternal home.

All those who did not hear the gospel, for what ever reason, are still held to the just judgement of God. This scripture explains that nobody is without excuse and all people have made a choice. Their attitude and character of their heart will be judged by God:

Romans 1:19-2021st Century King James Version (KJ21)

19 because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shown it unto them.


20 For from the creation of the world the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood through the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

I don't believe for one minute that God would subject people to hell if they were ignorant of the their sinful actions. Everyone knows when they are doing things that are wrong. Even a little kid knows not to pull another kids hair or hurt them, steal a toy from them, tell a lie..... we don't have to be taught these things. As adults, we are even more aware..

So, you're thinking that people who don't hear the gospel are aware of their sinful state? I'd agree.

Where we evidently part company is I believe those people will be given a chance to hear the Good News, even after they are dead.

Apparently, you believe they know they are guilty, yet have no solution and will never have the solution (Christ alone).

One more point...

We are not "sent" to hell. The concept of "believe in Christ OR your off to hell" is in error.

The concept is that you are already going to hell so "believe in Christ and be saved". If not, then, continue on the journey that you have been on all along.

Yes, we are all going to hell. But some of us have heard the Gospel and been touched by God to believe it. And some of us believe we may hear the Gospel even though dead and be saved (see previous Scripture examples).

Again, where we differ is you do apparently believe that you accept Christ or you are off to hell because you never heard.

See the difference?

 

[Standing Up]

It is man's traditions that say someone gets a choice after they die.

God never says that. His Word is Perfect and Complete, nothing lacking, nothing broken,
in total harmony WITHOUT man's traditions,
and
directly opposed to the thought someone can have a second chance after dying.

So do you think those who died before Christ's atonement are not saved? Abraham, Isaac, Jacob are dead and in hell. If not, why not?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So do you think those who died before Christ's atonement are not saved? Abraham, Isaac, Jacob are dead and in hell. If not, why not?

Most people before and after zero B.C./A.D. are not saved. As YHWH says.

YHWH says Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not dead nor in (english)hell. That's more than enough for anyone who is trusting YHWH.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... wrong section....

 

[JacksBratt]

So, you're thinking that people who don't hear the gospel are aware of their sinful state? I'd agree.

Where we evidently part company is I believe those people will be given a chance to hear the Good News, even after they are dead.

Actually, I believe that their life on earth is still what is judged. They cannot earn their way but how they responded to the wonders of this earth that are evidence of God, they will be judged by their hearts...

However, the bible is silent on this. To my knowledge anyway... Either way, God is just and nobody will go to hell if they are allowed into eternal life by God's judgement. It will be righteous.

Apparently, you believe they know they are guilty, yet have no solution and will never have the solution (Christ alone).

I have no solid view on this. It cannot be "Christ alone" if they are ignorant of it. God will have a method and it will be righteous and just.

Yes, we are all going to hell. But some of us have heard the Gospel and been touched by God to believe it. And some of us believe we may hear the Gospel even though dead and be saved (see previous Scripture examples).

I see your view. Do you have scripture that says this? I'm curious. I believe that anyone that has heard the gospel, on this earth, has had their chance. Believe or discard.... their choice.

Also, we are not all going to hell. We all "were" going to hell. Some of us just take the exit to the off ramp that leads to salvation. Some... stay on the highway to hell, ignoring all the signs along the way, for whatever reasons.

Again, where we differ is you do apparently believe that you accept Christ or you are off to hell because you never heard.

See the difference?

Sorry if that is your perception of my post. I do not know and have no scripture to support any view on what happen to people on a island in the south pacific that never heard of God or Christ. I believe, and it is just a belief that they will be judged by their heart and their attitude based on the universe displays God and His power. I believe that God has a way that is just and righteous. It may be that they have a test after their death... Pretty cheeky to fail that one though.

In the end... I don't know. I do know that all mankind is, was or will be "without excuse" at their trial before God.

 

[Standing Up]

As probably many have posted in the past, and hopefully as known to most of the Churches represented here, that is a well-known heresy opposed to God's Word directly.

I cannot even think (or remember) even one Christian School or Church that agrees with it.

What one are you representing or from , or learned it from ?

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of thingsin heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Phil 2:10

How will they bow if they don't hear?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... wrong section....

 

[Standing Up]

Actually, I believe that their life on earth is still what is judged. They cannot earn their way but how they responded to the wonders of this earth that are evidence of God, they will be judged by their hearts...

However, the bible is silent on this. To my knowledge anyway... Either way, God is just and nobody will go to hell if they are allowed into eternal life by God's judgement. It will be righteous.

Everyone will come up short.

Again the difference is I believe they will hear. See Scripture in post above.

I have no solid view on this. It cannot be "Christ alone" if they are ignorant of it. God will have a method and it will be righteous and just.

It will be Christ alone. We know this. What some of us don't know is whether the dead will hear the Good News or not. Mt. 27:52-53 already tells us the answer.

I see your view. Do you have scripture that says this? I'm curious. I believe that anyone that has heard the gospel, on this earth, has had their chance. Believe or discard.... their choice.

Oh, some people hear a lukewarm mixture.

Also, we are not all going to hell. We all "were" going to hell. Some of us just take the exit to the off ramp that leads to salvation. Some... stay on the highway to hell, ignoring all the signs along the way, for whatever reasons.



Sorry if that is your perception of my post. I do not know and have no scripture to support any view on what happen to people on a island in the south pacific that never heard of God or Christ. I believe, and it is just a belief that they will be judged by their heart and their attitude based on the universe displays God and His power. I believe that God has a way that is just and righteous. It may be that they have a test after their death... Pretty cheeky to fail that one though.

In the end... I don't know. I do know that all mankind is, was or will be "without excuse" at their trial before God.

Yep, no excuse, no righteous works will get you there.

 

[Standing Up]

Keep reading.

They are resurrected to shame and judgment (destruction).

No one guilty escapes.

I'll try again.

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of thingsin heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ isLord, to the glory of God the Father.
Phi 2:10-11

Again, the question is whether there is another choice besides Christ or hell. There's not. Where we differ is my understanding that the dead (under the earth) shall hear and repent and be saved to the glory of God the Father.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... wrong section....

 

[Standing Up]

Keep reading.

They are resurrected to shame and judgment (destruction).

No one guilty escapes.

Unbelievable as it may be, there may be some who reject Christ. But hey, maybe they join some people in purgatory trying to figure it all out.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... wrong section....

 

[Standing Up]

This is directly contrary to all Scripture, TORAH, PROPHETS, PSALMS and NT.

Really. You know someone who is born-again without Christ?

PS. Sorta funny, given the "Christian only" messaging only allowed. Or perhaps I misunderstand you.

 

[Standing Up]

The Scripture is perfectly clear about this - there is no second chance.

Second chance implies a first chance. For some, that first chance may be hearing "under the earth".

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... wrong section....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Or perhaps I misunderstand you.

Obviously.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Unbelievable as it may be, there may be some who reject Christ.

Most people do reject Christ.
That's old news.

 

[Standing Up]

This is directly contrary to all Scripture, TORAH, PROPHETS, PSALMS and NT.

You missed this answer, which if you could answer it, might help the conversation.

Really. You know someone who is born-again without Christ?