When it comes to other religions, what is the bottom line?

TruthSeekerNSF

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The bottom line is that Christianity is the only religion whereby one is saved without working for it. For all other religions, to be saved, one must work for it before, during, or after.

For some of the other religions, no matter how many works they need to pay, do you believe they will be able to get to heaven finally if they do those very well? Or Could they at least reach a life state equavalent to that in heaven? Different approaches but equally satisfactory results?
 
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JacksBratt

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Why do you feel that the God who is Love, would create babies, against their will, bound to hell fire by default? If you knew that there was a great chance that your own children would be tortured if you had them......would you still choose to have them just to say you "have children?"
How do you know that before we are conceived, we don't have the choice? Just say'n....

You say babies are created against their will. How do you know that is true?
 
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JacksBratt

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That's sad. So there's no hope for anybody even if they are a good person who hasn't sinned.
Tell me, if you were God, would you allow even the smallest sinner into the gates of heaven? Would you give that sinner a third choice?
No person, on earth, ever, excepting Christ, has lived a sinless life. Period...
 
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JacksBratt

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For some of the other religions, no matter how many works they need to pay, do you believe they will be able to get to heaven finally if they do those very well? Or Could they at least reach a life state equavalent to that in heaven? Different approaches but equally satisfactory results?
That's not what Christ taught. That's not what the bible says.

There are scriptures that indicate that there will be those that have never heard of the gospel or Christ... These people have never been made aware of the "one way" through Christ. They are ignorant of the salvation Christ has given.

They will be judged on their heart as "none are without excuse".

Here is the scripture.
Romans 1:18-21King James Version (KJV)

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.


20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 
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RaymondG

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How do you know that before we are conceived, we don't have the choice? Just say'n....

You say babies are created against their will. How do you know that is true?
I don't believe birth is the beginning of our lives and I believe that it is possible that we chose to come here.

But this is a religious site.....You don't want to be called devil worshippers and ignored by everyone.

I'm keeping in line with the thread and the normal train of thought as long as it didn't go against what I know as truth.
 
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JacksBratt

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Yes, the only unforgivable sin is rejecting the Holy Spirit...that means NOT responding to the Holy Spirit's conviction about the need for Christ. The only way to God is through His Son, Jesus Christ and his sacrifice and resurrection. One must believe.
I believe it is Blasphemy of the Holy spirit, not rejecting. There is a big difference.
 
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JacksBratt

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My thoughts are, who am I to say if someone is going to hell or not? I don't know that, only God knows that.

My best friend is an Atheist and I often see God in her more than I do Christians.

In the end, I think we will be surprised who is in heaven.
I agree that some show more Christian attributes that actual christians. However, if you don't believe in God.... it is clear:
Matthew 10:32-33King James Version (KJV)

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.


33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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That's sad. So there's no hope for anybody even if they are a good person who hasn't sinned.
Tell me, if you were God, would you allow even the smallest sinner into the gates of heaven? Would you give that sinner a third choice?

Are there people who haven't sinned? Have you met one?
 
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Tetra

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I agree that some show more Christian attributes that actual christians. However, if you don't believe in God.... it is clear:
Matthew 10:32-33King James Version (KJV)

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.


33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
What's your point? I still don't think we can claim knowledge to where people will end up.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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What's your point? I still don't think we can claim knowledge to where people will end up.
Most people cannot know.
God knows,
and states it clearly and often in His Word (The Bible) and
as He speaks with His children on earth in spirit.
 
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For some of the other religions, no matter how many works they need to pay, do you believe they will be able to get to heaven finally if they do those very well? Or Could they at least reach a life state equavalent to that in heaven? Different approaches but equally satisfactory results?
I don't believe so. Remember Christ upped the ante by saying if you even look at a woman with lust, let alone commit the deed, you've sinned (Mt.). Or if you drive down the road and envy someone's car or house, you've sinned. Or if you think about not going home for the holidays, not honoring your parents, you've sinned.

So, while folks can work, can be pious, can do good deeds, I don't think any of us can do it so perfectly consistently second by second throughout our lifetimes that we don't sin. One sin and you fail (Rom. 2:25, James 2:10).

The state of grace is God given. It can't be earned.

Having said all that, I also think folks who die without Christ will have a chance to hear, repent, and be saved (enter heaven).
 
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Jack Isaacks

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I don't think that was quite what the Pope said.

However, when St. Peter met St. Cornelius, he said, "I see that God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation those who do His will are acceptable to Him."

St. Paul said something like this. "When the Gentiles, who do not know the Law, do what the Law commands, they are a law unto themselves, their consciences either excusing or condemning them."

I heard of a Hindu in India who goes to those living on the streets, bringing them meals, washing them, cutting their hair, binding their wounds, and doing what he can for them. Is he not fulfilling the Law of Christ in Matthew 25 by performing these corporeal acts of mercy?

Let God, the only Just Judge sort it out.

Christ is risen!
 
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ChristianFromKazakhstan

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When it comes to other religions, what is the bottom line?



So bottom line, if you are not with Christ you go to hell? Or in the case of those who don't believe in a literal hell, to eternal separation from God?

I once heard about the Pope saying that even atheists can be saved if they are genuinely good people.

What are your thoughts?

Creation can't speak for the Creator. It's like a bee asking a bee, what the beekeeper will do with a bee that doesn't bring honey. No bee knows the mind of a human!
 
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Daniel Marsh

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When it comes to other religions, what is the bottom line?



So bottom line, if you are not with Christ you go to hell? Or in the case of those who don't believe in a literal hell, to eternal separation from God?

I once heard about the Pope saying that even atheists can be saved if they are genuinely good people.

What are your thoughts?

The Pope taught a doctrine known as Invincible Ignorance based on

Romans 2:15Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
15 They show that in their hearts they know what is right and wrong, the same as the law commands, and their consciences agree. Sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done wrong, and this makes them guilty. And sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done right, and this makes them not guilty.

Since most people know that they have done wrong. They do not fall under the definition of Invincible Ignorance any more.

"
Invincible ignorance, whether of the law or of the fact, is always a valid excuse and excludes sin. The evident reason is that neither this state nor the act resulting therefrom is voluntary. It is undeniable that a man cannot be invincibly ignorant of the natural law, so far as its first principles are concerned, and the inferences easily drawn therefrom. This, however, according to the teaching of St. Thomas, is not true of those remoter conclusions, which are deducible only by a process of laborious and sometimes intricate reasoning. Of these a person may be invincibly ignorant. Even when the invincible ignorance is concomitant, it prevents the act which it accompanies from being regarded as sinful. The perverse temper of soul, which in this case is supposed, retains, of course, such malice as it had. Vincible ignorance, being in some way voluntary, does not permit a man to escape responsibility for the moral deformity of his deeds; he is held to be guilty and in general the more guilty in proportion as his ignorance is more voluntary. Hence, the essential thing to remember is that the guilt of an act performed or omitted in vincible ignorance is not to be measured by the intrinsic malice of the thing done or omitted so much as by the degree of negligence discernible in the act.

It must not be forgotten that, although vincible ignorance leaves the culpability of a person intact, still it does make the act less voluntary than if it were done with full knowledge. "
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Ignorance

Ignorance -- Invincible and Vincible | Catholic Answers

Dictionary : VINCIBLE IGNORANCE



Catechism of the Catholic Church


IV. ERRONEOUS JUDGMENT

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one's passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church's authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.

1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.

1794 A good and pure conscience is enlightened by true faith, for charity proceeds at the same time "from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith."60
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 3 SECTION 1 CHAPTER 1 ARTICLE 6
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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Well technically they all are religions. Christianity is not a religion. Its a relationship with God. So in that case religions are just fake man (maybe devil inspired) made stuff.

As for the being good and going to heaven. Thats a catholic thing. Which would counter everything Jesus was about. I mean why would He need to come to earth and die for our sins if all we really needed was to be good people instead. See how much that counters the Word.
 
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No person, on earth, ever, excepting Christ, has lived a sinless life. Period...

What is sin, really? God said that we are born of sin no matter what. But just because we have a bad thought we're in danger of hell?
If God were really a loving God and wouldn't want us to hurt at all, why would God himself create a eternal hell fire for anyone who doesn't believe in him even if that person has lived as a good person? It makes no sense that everyone has to go to a torturing hell fire for ever for one small, fleeting thought or action. It's not like everyone kills if they don't have Jesus.
There's so many good people in the world in danger of the christian hell.
 
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Midnafan97

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Are there people who haven't sinned? Have you met one?

Yes, there are people who haven't sinned. I have met people who are broken, but not sinners. There's a confusion with the description of 'broken' and 'sin'. People who make mistakes, aren't sinners. They're Just broken.
Sinning is a willing act.

If you accuse a broken person of sinning, then you'll just break them even more. Which one is the sinner? The broken person or the accuser?
 
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horan

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When it comes to other religions, what is the bottom line?



So bottom line, if you are not with Christ you go to hell? Or in the case of those who don't believe in a literal hell, to eternal separation from God?

I once heard about the Pope saying that even atheists can be saved if they are genuinely good people.

What are your thoughts?

There is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved but that of Jesus Christ. Christianity really isn't a religion at all. Jesus Christ is simply the truth. Those who, by grace, are given to understand this simply understand it. And the promise of Jesus Christ is true, because He is. Popes throughout the centuries have said and done many things which have little to do with our salvation in Jesus Christ, which is to be made part of His body, and the part cannot deny the head. The marriage is used to symbolize our union with Christ, because it is the most intimate relationship. So, if you are not with Christ, you can't be saved. Hell is another matter altogether. It's a Roman doctrine and false. I'd encourage you to some research. There are a many statements in the Bible which indicate that all will ultimately be saved, so the matter is to understand those statements which seem to indicate otherwise. You want to understand the translation issues. What do the original Hebrew and Greek words mean which have been translated into our English hell, judgement, damnation and others. Many on these forums will take issue with this, that all will be ultimately saved, but it's only in understanding this that the whole Bible actually makes sense. Each is saved in his own order, some fairly soon when our Lord returns, some later and likely with more difficulty. It's well worth the effort to look into this. God bless.
 
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JacksBratt

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What's your point? I still don't think we can claim knowledge to where people will end up.
I think it's pretty safe to say that if someone denies the existence of God, they will not be given salvation. No matter how "good" they are, they will be a sinner and need to
" believe on the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ"

You cannot be saved and deny God even exists.
 
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JacksBratt

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What is sin, really? God said that we are born of sin no matter what. But just because we have a bad thought we're in danger of hell?
If God were really a loving God and wouldn't want us to hurt at all, why would God himself create a eternal hell fire for anyone who doesn't believe in him even if that person has lived as a good person? It makes no sense that everyone has to go to a torturing hell fire for ever for one small, fleeting thought or action. It's not like everyone kills if they don't have Jesus.
There's so many good people in the world in danger of the christian hell.

Just because we have a bad thought? There is nobody on this earth that has gone through life and there only sin is "a bad thought.

However, in God's eyes all sins are equal. Take one to many cookies than your mom told you to, put down that you were to work on time when you were late, fornicate, kill someone, kill a whole bunch....

In Gods eyes it means one thing and one thing only....you are a sinner and you are not sinless.

If you get one question wrong on a test you cannot say you were perfect.

Good news though, no matter what you have done, even the worst sinner ever, can have salvation.
 
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