When is it gonna be enough?

[Radagast]

You are correct that cars kill many more people.

And the death rate due to motor vehicles in the US is at least 50% more than it should be (at least, it's 50% more than Australia's).

The number of lives that could be saved by modest improvements to road safety are actually equal to the total number of gun deaths.

 

[Anguspure]

You know what? I just got finished looking at the RAW data of ways people die in the U.S. (I am talking minute by minute) (yes you can actually find that online. There are roughly TWENTY causes of death that are more common in this county than murder by gun.

Here is the link

2018 Real Time Death Statistics in America

Certainly puts the problem in perspective, I agree. Nevertheless of the intentional/non-accidental caused deaths (Notwithstanding the truly appalling abortion statistic) it is 3rd, and in terms of murder it is the 2nd most prevalent against all other causes (Homicide).

 

[mama2one]

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[Archivist]

Oh here's someone who doesn't understand the basics of creation and how genders differ. Shall I enroll you in a course of biology?

This is what people do what they can’t offer a valid argument—they resort to insult. Until the industrial revolution most families worked out of their homes and the parents shared responsibility for raising and educating the children.

 

[Archivist]

Earlier on this thread I offered a list of things that could be done to reduce mass shootings. What is it about gun advocates that makes them unwilling to allow reasonable limitations on gun ownership. What is wrong with banning bumpstocks? What is wrong with a mandatory one month waiting period for all gun purchases? What is wrong with banning gun sales to convicted felons with no exceptions? What is wrong with banning ownership of assault weapons or perhaps if all automatic and semiautomatic weapons? No one is talking about banning all gun ownership.

One poster on here said that there are causes of death that kill more people than shootings—cancer, diabetes, heart disease, etc. Well, we fight those diseases to try to save lives. Why not fight to save lives my limiting gun ownership?

 

[Steve Petersen]

Earlier on this thread I offered a list of things that could be done to reduce mass shootings. What is it about gun advocates that makes them unwilling to allow reasonable limitations on gun ownership. What is wrong with banning bumpstocks? What is wrong with a mandatory one month waiting period for all gun purchases? What is wrong with banning gun sales to convicted felons with no exceptions? What is wrong with banning ownership of assault weapons or perhaps if all automatic and semiautomatic weapons? No one is talking about banning all gun ownership.

One poster on here said that there are causes of death that kill more people than shootings—cancer, diabetes, heart disease, etc. Well, we fight those diseases to try to save lives. Why not fight to save lives my limiting gun ownership?

I personally have no problem with most of what you posted, but some things would be ineffective. Do you really think felons would be unable to obtain guns just because there was a law against it?

 

[Archivist]

I personally have no problem with most of what you posted, but some things would be ineffective. Do you really think felons would be unable to obtain guns just because there was a law against it?

As long as there are so many guns available they could probably get one. But it would make it more difficult.

 

[Steve Petersen]

As long as there are so many guns available they could probably get one. But it would make it more difficult.

How would you get illegally owned weapons today out of circulation to prevent them falling into the hands of people who don't care about the law?

 

[Archivist]

I had to use a gun yesterday because a large copperhead was outside the downstairs neighbor's front door. Now several of my neighbors feel a little safer - not more fearful.

There are legitimate uses for firearms.

If we, as a family of believers want to have an impact on reducing child mortality then we should demand that abortion should not be paid for with taxpayer money (At the very least).

I understand that President Trump is pushing such legislation. I have not heard any updates yet.

Just consider the number of deaths at school shooting as compared to the number of babies murdered in abortions. It's not even close.

I'll ask the question, where should our priority be?

If we want to make our kids safer at school then let's stop them from being "fish in a barrel". Use common sense and provide security there, armed security.

Ok you took out a copperhead with a gun. But did you need a semiautomatic for that or could you have used a .22?

Abortion is a different topic. We can deal with both, it doesn’t have to be either/or.

 

[Archivist]

How would you get illegally owned weapons today out of circulation to prevent them falling into the hands of people who don't care about the law?

If they aren’t being pumped into society legally, the supply will eventually decrease.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Ah yes, the old "you gotta die of something" argument. This argument carries weight only when those who proclaim it put thier money where thier mouth is and willingly suffer the death that they so glibbly wish upon others, in thier place.
The way forward may not be consistent at all times, improvement never is.
But when a problem is so starkly highlighted by frequent catastrophies such as this only the willfully uncaring resist change.
If I let my child use an angle grinder and she hurt herself so she had to be taken to hospital from using it I would be a blithering idiot to proclaim that the problem does not lie with the angle grinder and so leave it out ready for her to use again.
Such is the case with a society that is regressing to such a poor moral condition and so is no longer capable of safe and responsible fire arm ownership.

Plenty of people are. There are MANY more responsible gun owners than not and for those who are not by the way there are ALREADY criminal charges to file.
As for we are going to die of something while we ALL know this is true that was not really my point. My point was that there are other things that kill people and yet people do not ( in general) seem to be NEARLY as up in arms about that as they are about the so far LESS than 4,500 people that have been murdered by gun so far this year.

 

[dogs4thewin]

You are correct that cars kill many more people. It is well known that the petrol driven motor car would never have passed muster had its operation been assesed on the grounds of modern expectations of safety. The only reason we accept the risk is because our whole world is addicted to the method of transport, hardly a rational argument.
So will you also oppose measures to improve road safety on the grounds that you want to be free to do whatever you want?
Is the USA similalry addicted to owning and use fire arms that are produced expressly for the purpose of killing people?

Firearms VERY rarely kill people without some action by a person. Every once in a BLUE moon there will be a truly accidental discharge where it is something with THAT PARTICULAR gun that basically causes it to fire itself, but those are so rare that is nowhere NEAR an argument because for one thing an accidental discharge could happen to ANYONE from the person who has never shot before to the best trained sharp shooter.

 

[dogs4thewin]

​

Very difficult to tell what this man is thinking.

Yet and I will try to find the link, but the students at this particular school ACTUALLY said ( and the LT governor actually listened that it was time to arm teachers. This was AFTER their classmates had been gunned down.

 

[dogs4thewin]

The general Judeo Christian expectation has changed, the western world, clearly in the US at least, is loosing it's moral foundation.

Furthermore the guns that were given to your Dad were given in the context of protection of a nation against external aggressors. The people who had the guns were all on the same team looking to defend themselves against a common adversary.

Switzerland with it's high gun ownership falls within this category and they don't have school shootings for a similar reason.

In this world of relativism the enemy is defined differently and may well be our neighbour. There is little moral foundation to temper the thoughts of one who is loosing the plot and there is less community spirit to aid with helping the disaffected person and/or protecting the community against the issue.

So these things and perhaps a few more have changed and need to change back in order for the society to have a chance at being society in which free firearm use might be considered safe.

But this is a huge ask for a culture that has lost its way and not one that is going to happen overnight, if ever. Changing peoples hearts is difficult enough for God, what hope do mere humans have?

So the most obvious fix, if only temporarily, would seem to be lowering the catastrophic consequence of the hazard posed by free gun ownership to that which will result in a lower risk while society works out how to lower the likelihood of things going wrong in the first place.

or we could change our CULTURE ( which is actually probably easier than trying to change the second amendment that has been in place over 200 years. ONE amendment has been repealed and that one did not EVEN last TWENTY years, so that tells you how hard it is and again frankly there are MANY more good guys with guns than bad guns with guns.

 

[dogs4thewin]

and the point?

this thread was started because of yet another school shooting
everytime I see a thread about this topic on a forum, yes it's discussed on other forums, it's seems TOO many people are way more concerned about their precious guns than

PRECIOUS CHILDREN

when Newtown happened and the thought of those 6 yr old kids dying, cried and prayed at night for days for those parents and kids

it seems so many people really do not care about how people can drop off their kids at school and then during the day find out that when they kissed their kid in the morn, that was it

had one and only panic attack in my life and it was the day I brought our child to K for the first time
she was 6, the same age as the sandy hook kids and although wasn't thinking about that then, it was probably in my subconcious somewhere
we'd only been parents for 4 yrs since she was 2 when we adopted her and it still felt too soon to let her go

every night we do a group hug and

everyday I hug our child before I bring her to school and pray for her but never know if today will be the day I see her last

I explained my point in another post.

 

[mama2one]

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[Dig4truth]

Ok you took out a copperhead with a gun. But did you need a semiautomatic for that or could you have used a .22?

Abortion is a different topic. We can deal with both, it doesn’t have to be either/or.

It was a 22 rifle and yes, being a simiautomatic helped a lot. It took quite a few shots to kill it. Had that been a human that threatened my wellbeing I would want the same capacity to defend myself.

 

[dogs4thewin]

there are solutions already for the many other higher causes of death such as don't smoke, eat healthy, exercise, take your meds if you need them, etc

but the U.S. hasn't addressed the problem with guns as other countries like Australia which made changes after a mass shooting

we could make changes, too and people are fighting for changes such as Moms Demand Action but it certainly is an uphill battle

And those changes have only been so effective for a number of reasons one of which is actually is the cost of healthy food ALONG with culture and how easy unhealthy food is to prepare As it relates to cigarettes and booze there ARE punishment for adults who sell or buy them for minors anyway, and yet most new smokers are underage and all else being equal a person who begins drinking younger has a higher chance of having alcohol problems later in life.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Certainly puts the problem in perspective, I agree. Nevertheless of the intentional/non-accidental caused deaths (Notwithstanding the truly appalling abortion statistic) it is 3rd, and in terms of murder it is the 2nd most prevalent against all other causes (Homicide).

what is third counting abortion that title belongs to cancer, and I do not always count abortion because most of the time the baby would not live anyway ( at the time an abortion occurs).

 

[mama2one]

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