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When is it Ethical to kill?

Should homosexuals KILL "Christians"?

  • No, even though they would destroy me without hesitation it would be wrong.

  • Absolutely, they started this war now its on.

  • I don't have an opinion because I'm too indecisive to decide which pair of socks to wear.

  • turn the other cheek or some other stupid rot-gut


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Beanieboy

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Trev, you're either a troll or in serious need of a psychiatrist. Seriously, no person I've known, gay or straight, has come up with ideas as bizarre as the ones you're espousing on this thread without laughing.

My suspiciion is that Trev is a conservative Christian that is very anti-gay, who is posing as a crazy militant homosexual to prove how crazy and militant homosexuals are.

I don't have to pose as a Christian to show what already is, how murderous and outright hateful some Christians can be. I can direct you to another theological website and let you see it first hand, where they tell me how they should stone me according to Leviticus, and that the Freedom of Religion prevents them from carrying out God's justice. You can go to Phelps site and see the dancing head of Mathew Shephard and the count of days he has been burning in hell, or the way he has spoken out for God by protesting the funerals of those who are grieving the loss of a gay person that died. . You can read what Enyart says. You can read propaganda spread by numerous Christian sites, misinformation that has been disproven repeatedly, yet presented as "fact."

If this is true - that Trev is a Christian trying to portray a militant gay person, it is because what he is portraying - murderous gay people - don't really exist. He has to create his own monster, making him a monster himself.

If it is not true, it seems to be the current ammo of the Religious Right. While they rely on fear and ignorance (doesn't love cast out all fear?), one has to think from whom that kind of energy comes from. As more and more people meet gay and lesbian coworkers, relatives, classmates and neighbors, they find them not to be the predators they are accused of being, and rather, not much unlike themselves in the way they live their lives. When this is realized, their eyes will turn from the accused to the accuser, and the accuser will have to answer why they chose fearmongering, ignorance, discord, deceit, false accusation, and blaming the victim whom they oppress as their way of influencing others to follow them. They will have to answer to whom they truly serve, and if they are truly followers of Christ, or wolves in sheeps clothing.

A bizarre Christian used to say to me, quoting from Psalms, how she would bathe in my blood, the blood of the wicked, on Judgement Day.

I pray for her mercy, actually. She seems so in love with the Law, that she has forgotten Love. She lives so much in the anger and vengence of the Old Testament, that she does not allow for the Mercy of Christ himself.

So, while she imagines gleefully bathing in my blood in some strange, twisted cross between Carrie and Braveheart, I imagine only looking down in sorrow, as Christ says to her, "I was a stranger, and you treated me with hostility. I was innocent, and you accused me of being a child molester. You barely knew me, and yet, passed judgement without mercy, understanding, or compassion. You told me that I deserved to be killed. You told me that God detested me, and couldn't stand the very site of me. As you have done this to the least of these, so have you done so to me. Depart from me, evil doer." And even so, I will beg for Christ's mercy, because if I can forgive her and show her mercy, how much more is the forgiveness of God, whom none of us deserve, even at the time of Judgement?

I watched Godspell as a kid. A lot of the symbolism went over my head, but they acted out the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. Jesus divided the Sheep and Goats. The Sheep went into the Kingdom. The Goats, however, he sent away. With heads as low as their spirits, they trudged slowly away. Then, Jesus said, "Hey....Come here...." and invited them in.

And that rang very true to me.

That is why I am confused by those who not only condemn others to hell, but gloat about their salvation, and act as if they deserve it, while the other deserves eternal damnation. I am confused why they go as far as invent the torture, of flesh ripped from the body, to grow back and ripped off again, for eternity, and eternal punishment for a life the duration of the blinking of an eye in comparison. I am confused why they believe the nonbeliever to be their enemy, when that is for whom Christ came. I am puzzled how they can sing, "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me", then offer no grace to their fellow man, but condemnation, and call them a wretch, and as in the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, thank God that they are not like other people. I cannot understand the glee of others going to Hell, as if they can only enjoy Heaven if it is exclusive, and at the same time, read about the Shepard that leaves the 99 to find the 1 who is lost.

I have come to believe that we all, in one way or another, eventually return to God, that hell is a burning off of the things that hold us back, a purification by fire, so that we are prepared to be with God, to approach God in humility, as he will approach us as well, and to be One again. And yet, this idea seems to threaten some, anger them sometimes. There is a Parable where a man in the vineyard offers someone a job in the morning. He offers another to someone who comes at noon, and another who comes late in the day. They are all paid equally. The man in the morning says, "That is unfair. I worked longer!," but the owner explains that he was given exactly what he had agreed was a fair price. What bothered him was not his wage, but that was the others received the same wage as he had. He didn't get "more," and he was angry that they didn't receive lesss. It is the son who stays who complains about the Prodical Son's celebration , angry that he was not given such a party, rather than rejoicing at his brother's return, the reason for the celebration.

So, I will ask for God to have mercy on such people, as he has had mercy on me, and I have tried to show mercy in kind. And I think that is what God wishes - for us to plead for the mercy of others, and in so, having Mercy on Christ, and making us merciful, as God is merciful.

Namaste
 
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CreedIsChrist

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I think you're going to have to produce a link to this study in order to substantiate your claim. As it stands I was unable to find any information regarding a so-called "Swedish" study of gay couples to support your claim. I did however find a few which indicated promiscuity rates declining nationwide after the advent of civil partnerships

http://www.marriagedebate.com/pdf/SSdivorcerisk.pdf



The IMAPP report surveys the results of a study published by Gunnar Andersson, earlier this year entitled "Divorce-Risk Patterns In Same-Sex 'Marriages' In Norway And Sweden."
The IMAPP report notes that in Sweden, between 1995 and 2002, there were 1,526 gay partnerships contracted, compared to 280,000 for heterosexual couples. Five out of 1,000 new couples in Sweden are same-sex. Sixty-two percent of those are male same-sex unions.
The survey revealed a high rate of legal divorce among homosexual couples in Sweden. Gay male couples were 50% more likely to divorce within an eight-year period than were heterosexuals; and lesbian couples were 167% more likely to divorce than heterosexual couples. According to IMAPP: "Even among childless households, same-sex male partnerships experienced almost a 50% higher likelihood (1.49 times as likely) of divorce during the study period, while childless lesbian couples were three times as likely (200% higher likelihood) to break up as a married couple without children."



I believe you're thinking of the infamous "Dutch Study" which Fundamentalist "Christians" often misuse to portray homosexuals as HIV infected harlots. Curious thing about that study: it specifically excluded men over the age of 30 (more likely to be "settled down") AND men who described themselves as "Mongamously Coupled", in a civil partnership or same-sex marriage (Xirdou et al).

No it was sweden, read above


Sure there are homosexual killers, but the numbers are no where near proportional to the percent of the Heterosexual community who are killers. 97% of all prisoners are Heterosexuals. Clearly there is something wrong with the Heterosexual Lifestyle Choice.

Maybe because there outnumbered by a few billion? You need to look at the per-capita percentage(the percentage of killers or AIDS carriers by the percentage of population) to see the true colors show.


Good example of very few crimes committed by Homosexuals, and not at all generalizable to the entire Homosexual Community. Sorry

Yea but your OP is about killing people who are christians because they are a 'threat' to the gay community. Im showing you some of the worst serial killers in history and many incidents involve people who kill who are homosexuals. Add that on with AIDS carriers who still have promiscious sex and give others a death sentence and you have alot of killers on your part of the wagon too.


ALso if 97% of the prison population is straight why is homosexual rape so common in prison?(and don't give me the 'its power' speech, there are many other ways to get power other than doing that) Its obvious that alot of homosexual acts are accompanied by violence.


Oh NOEZ! Divorces and Separations declining immediately following Same-Sex Civil Unions! GASP Teh Bible can't be wrong though!

But it started increasing again after a couple years. Take a look at 1977. Ever wonder why the earlier we go the less divorce there is? Take a look at it before 1973, before Roe v Wade happened. You''ll be amazed. Roe v Wade is probably the greatest contributor to divorce probably, because after RvWade the whole country and alot of women changed their view on children and family, and if people think its ok for mothers to kill their own children how are they gonna even be good parents in the first place when they have such a low view on the life of children.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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My suspiciion is that Trev is a conservative Christian that is very anti-gay, who is posing as a crazy militant homosexual to prove how crazy and militant homosexuals are.

I don't have to pose as a Christian to show what already is, how murderous and outright hateful some Christians can be. I can direct you to another theological website and let you see it first hand, where they tell me how they should stone me according to Leviticus, and that the Freedom of Religion prevents them from carrying out God's justice. You can go to Phelps site and see the dancing head of Mathew Shephard and the count of days he has been burning in hell, or the way he has spoken out for God by protesting the funerals of those who are grieving the loss of a gay person that died. . You can read what Enyart says. You can read propaganda spread by numerous Christian sites, misinformation that has been disproven repeatedly, yet presented as "fact."

If this is true - that Trev is a Christian trying to portray a militant gay person, it is because what he is portraying - murderous gay people - don't really exist. He has to create his own monster, making him a monster himself.

If it is not true, it seems to be the current ammo of the Religious Right. While they rely on fear and ignorance (doesn't love cast out all fear?), one has to think from whom that kind of energy comes from. As more and more people meet gay and lesbian coworkers, relatives, classmates and neighbors, they find them not to be the predators they are accused of being, and rather, not much unlike themselves in the way they live their lives. When this is realized, their eyes will turn from the accused to the accuser, and the accuser will have to answer why they chose fearmongering, ignorance, discord, deceit, false accusation, and blaming the victim whom they oppress as their way of influencing others to follow them. They will have to answer to whom they truly serve, and if they are truly followers of Christ, or wolves in sheeps clothing.

A bizarre Christian used to say to me, quoting from Psalms, how she would bathe in my blood, the blood of the wicked, on Judgement Day.

I pray for her mercy, actually. She seems so in love with the Law, that she has forgotten Love. She lives so much in the anger and vengence of the Old Testament, that she does not allow for the Mercy of Christ himself.

So, while she imagines gleefully bathing in my blood in some strange, twisted cross between Carrie and Braveheart, I imagine only looking down in sorrow, as Christ says to her, "I was a stranger, and you treated me with hostility. I was innocent, and you accused me of being a child molester. You barely knew me, and yet, passed judgement without mercy, understanding, or compassion. You told me that I deserved to be killed. You told me that God detested me, and couldn't stand the very site of me. As you have done this to the least of these, so have you done so to me. Depart from me, evil doer." And even so, I will beg for Christ's mercy, because if I can forgive her and show her mercy, how much more is the forgiveness of God, whom none of us deserve, even at the time of Judgement?

I watched Godspell as a kid. A lot of the symbolism went over my head, but they acted out the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. Jesus divided the Sheep and Goats. The Sheep went into the Kingdom. The Goats, however, he sent away. With heads as low as their spirits, they trudged slowly away. Then, Jesus said, "Hey....Come here...." and invited them in.

And that rang very true to me.

That is why I am confused by those who not only condemn others to hell, but gloat about their salvation, and act as if they deserve it, while the other deserves eternal damnation. I am confused why they go as far as invent the torture, of flesh ripped from the body, to grow back and ripped off again, for eternity, and eternal punishment for a life the duration of the blinking of an eye in comparison. I am confused why they believe the nonbeliever to be their enemy, when that is for whom Christ came. I am puzzled how they can sing, "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me", then offer no grace to their fellow man, but condemnation, and call them a wretch, and as in the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, thank God that they are not like other people. I cannot understand the glee of others going to Hell, as if they can only enjoy Heaven if it is exclusive, and at the same time, read about the Shepard that leaves the 99 to find the 1 who is lost.

I have come to believe that we all, in one way or another, eventually return to God, that hell is a burning off of the things that hold us back, a purification by fire, so that we are prepared to be with God, to approach God in humility, as he will approach us as well, and to be One again. And yet, this idea seems to threaten some, anger them sometimes. There is a Parable where a man in the vineyard offers someone a job in the morning. He offers another to someone who comes at noon, and another who comes late in the day. They are all paid equally. The man in the morning says, "That is unfair. I worked longer!," but the owner explains that he was given exactly what he had agreed was a fair price. What bothered him was not his wage, but that was the others received the same wage as he had. He didn't get "more," and he was angry that they didn't receive lesss. It is the son who stays who complains about the Prodical Son's celebration , angry that he was not given such a party, rather than rejoicing at his brother's return, the reason for the celebration.

So, I will ask for God to have mercy on such people, as he has had mercy on me, and I have tried to show mercy in kind. And I think that is what God wishes - for us to plead for the mercy of others, and in so, having Mercy on Christ, and making us merciful, as God is merciful.

Namaste

Did you write that beanieboy?
 
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Trevorocity

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Yea but your OP is about killing people who are christians because they are a 'threat' to the gay community. Im showing you some of the worst serial killers in history and many incidents involve people who kill who are homosexuals.
Umm 6 people out of millions? You're a real smart feller.
Add that on with AIDS carriers who still have promiscious sex and give others a death sentence and you have alot of killers on your part of the wagon too.
First of all people carry HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, get your terminology straight you sound like a fool when you confuse the two. Second, most gay people do not carry HIV.
ALso if 97% of the prison population is straight why is homosexual rape so common in prison?(and don't give me the 'its power' speech, there are many other ways to get power other than doing that) Its obvious that alot of homosexual acts are accompanied by violence.
who else are horny male prisoners going to rape? Rape isn't comperable to consentual sex between born gay men...sorry.
CiC said:
But it started increasing again after a couple years.
and then back down again after formal same-sex marriage was legalized.
CiC said:
Take a look at 1977. Ever wonder why the earlier we go the less divorce there is? Take a look at it before 1973, before Roe v Wade happened. You''ll be amazed. Roe v Wade is probably the greatest contributor to divorce probably, because after RvWade the whole country and alot of women changed their view on children and family, and if people think its ok for mothers to kill their own children how are they gonna even be good parents in the first place when they have such a low view on the life of children.
Umm gays don't have abortions. That's usually a straight moral failing.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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Umm 6 people out of millions? You're a real smart feller. First of all people carry HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, get your terminology straight you sound like a fool when you confuse the two. Second, most gay people do not carry HIV. who else are horny male prisoners going to rape? Rape isn't comperable to consentual sex between born gay men...sorry. and then back down again after formal same-sex marriage was legalized. Umm gays don't have abortions. That's usually a straight moral failing.


I was using it as an example. Do you really think christians are at war with the gay community?

I know the difference between HIV and AIDS. HIV is the virus, AIDS is the infection of the body after its immune system is down.

And thats the thing, if they didn't have some sort of male-male attraction they wouldn't be horny enough to go and actually do that. You need to be aroused in order to have sex u know. Lastly I was talking about abortion because of its effect on family and thus divorce.

You sound like a really angry person.
 
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Trevorocity

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And thats the thing, if they didn't have some sort of male-male attraction they wouldn't be horny enough to go and actually do that. You need to be aroused in order to have sex u know. Lastly I was talking about abortion because of its effect on family and thus divorce.

You sound like a really angry person.

Oh gee whiz Creed who could possibly be angered by being accused of trying to destroy society and being disease infested, and being compared to prison rapists? The prisoners are heterosexual, the act of rape is a crime committed by heterosexuals in prison. Most people are sophisticated enough to understand the difference; at least those who are intellectually honest people. Lastly - Gay marriage does not effect rates of abortion. If you have a beef with abortion take it up with your fellow straiggots.
 
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Beanieboy

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I was using it as an example. Do you really think christians are at war with the gay community?

I don't think all are, but if you don't think that some clearly are, you are sticking your head in the sand. The 700 Club using the threat of gay people everytime it needs more money. We are pretty powerful people, according to Pat. We cause hurricanes in Florida with one gay day at Disney World. We are responsible for the thousands of Americans that died during 9/11, not the terrorists. God would have reached his protective hand down from the sky if only there were no gay people. He uses a minority as scapegoats, and does it shamelessly in the name of God. Is it any wonder that he looks more and more like the villian from Leprechaun?

Phelps began his career with the God hates F*gs tag, then it spawned spinoffs. On another website, people would tell me that the US should be run by God's Law, reinacting Leviticus, and I should be stoned to death. They basically say all the same things as Phelps, sans the vulgarity (sometimes, anyway), but when you ask them about Phelps, with his raw sense of righteous hatred, that makes him look like the Villian from Poltergiest II (God is innnnnn his holy temmmmmmple....), they claim that he is nuts, although they agree on the same principles.
[/quote]
You sound like a really angry person.

You sound like a person that is relatively intelligent, but the last sentence sounds like you are being obtuse. It's like hearing a black person complain about being stopped by police for committing a DWB - Driving While Black, being followed in a department store, assumed that he doesn't have good credit when he wants to buy a car even though he is a doctor, accused of being hired because of his skin color when his ability and talent speak for themselves, is accused of "playing the race card" and told that blacks have way more power than whites do today, when that is clearly untrue...

and then responding....Gee, you seem like an angry person.

A better, Christian answer would be to put yourself in his shoes. Would you like to be assumed that you molest children, because you are gay, despite the fact that pedophiles are attracted to the age of the child, and not the gender? Would you like hearing over and over that God hates you? That if only they could return this country to its "original" Christian, theological state, that Leviticus could be reinstated, and they could stone you to death? Would you like to be blamed for Katrina, for gas prices, for terrorist attacks that had nothing to do with you? Would you like to experience a disease that people knew little about, and said that it was God's Judgement? That while it exists in heterosesxuals more in the world, it is still, today, ingorantly said to be gay people's fault, and a threat to the straight community, when it is transmitted through sexual content, and blood? And all of it done in Christ's name by the "good" people of this country?

Then, would you like someone to looked at you, and said, "Gee. You seem angry...?"

Woody Allen said in one of his movies that if Jesus were walking around today, seeing all the things done in his name, he would never stop throwing up. I agree. Christianity is no longer a religion about hope, mercy, compassion, forgiveness, kindness, humility and peace. It is one of justified war, condemnation of others, haughtiness, vulgarity, holding a grudge, and then patting yourself on the back on Sunday that you are so happy you aren't like those other people. There are churches with have evolved. There are churches which allow gay members, realizing that man has no place telling another whom can and cannot come to God and worship. There are churches that have softened their hearts, and see people with AIDS in a compassionate light.

But Christians have a bad rep that they have brought upon themselves, and it is their responsibility to evaluate their log in their eye, and remove it, lest they be seen as fools who poke out the eyes of others trying to remove the speck. And it is the responsibility of Christians to stand up to the Modern Day Pharisees, and expose them as the children of hell that they are, and defend the honour of Christ which the Pharisees have tarnished so unjustly that one no longer sees Christ in their Christianity at all.

Do I sound angry? Try reading Mathew 12, an entire Chapter dedicated to Jesus disgust of the leaders in the Temple.
 
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Zeena

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Relatively superior to those who have embraced the heterosexual lifestyle choice is what that means.
So then, you are able to fulfill the command of God only by living a homosexual lifesyle?

Genesis 1:22
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.

:sorry: Not gonna happen!
Woman are the Lord's chosen vessel to bear children, not men..

straiggots
Do you always label people?

Are you a human BEing or a human DOing?
Are you now what you eat? :o

being compared to prison rapists?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

Sodamy is a sin, as stated by God in Scripture!
 
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Trevorocity

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So then, you are able to fulfill the command of God only by living a homosexual lifesyle?

Genesis 1:22
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.

Already done. No longer relevant.

:sorry: Not gonna happen!
Woman are the Lord's chosen vessel to bear children, not men..

You're also to be silent when a man is speaking and not interrupt. Get off the computer and tend to your husband. (bible) Ouch cuts both ways don't it? :D

Do you always label people?

Are you a human BEing or a human DOing?
Are you now what you eat? :o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

Sodamy is a sin, as stated by God in Scripture!

Always, they usually lend themselves to stereotypes so well, if they don't like it, don't play the part. Btw not that its any of your business but I don't commit "Sodamy".
 
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Miracle Storm

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Already done. No longer relevant.
Not only is it no longer relevant I cannot understand why I always hear that argument used against homosexuals, but not toward those who chose not to have children...I mean christians don't climb into the beds of heterosexual married couples who chose to use protection instead of multiplying..:scratch:
 
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Trevorocity

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Not only is it no longer relevant I cannot understand why I always hear that argument used against homosexuals, but not toward those who chose not to have children...I mean christians don't climb into the beds of heterosexual married couples who chose to use protection instead of multiplying..:scratch:

Really? You don't know why? Oh come on you actually know exactly why they don't kick up a fuss about birth-control. As I said to my boyfriend who acted amazed that Fundamentalist "Christians" aren't actually up-in-arms over the choice of Palin (a woman) in a clear violation of "God's" word: "You can't honestly tell me you've never encountered a hypocrite before..." ;)
 
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Axioma

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I cannot conceive of the stupidity required to first name an act after a city, then claiming that God says this act is evil because the act is named after an evil city.

Ezek. 16:49 "This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy."

Can anyone tell me if there is any mention of sexuality in the above listing of the misdeeds of Sodom? No? Could it be because your homophobia is not biblically supported after all?
 
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Trevorocity

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I cannot conceive of the stupidity required to first name an act after a city, then claiming that God says this act is evil because the act is named after an evil city.

Ezek. 16:49 "This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy."

Can anyone tell me if there is any mention of sexuality in the above listing of the misdeeds of Sodom? No? Could it be because your homophobia is not biblically supported after all?

can-o-worms.gif
 
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Beanieboy

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I cannot conceive of the stupidity required to first name an act after a city, then claiming that God says this act is evil because the act is named after an evil city.

Ezek. 16:49 "This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy."

Can anyone tell me if there is any mention of sexuality in the above listing of the misdeeds of Sodom? No? Could it be because your homophobia is not biblically supported after all?

You say that like people use the bible to seek God's guidance. A lot of people use it to hide their own darkness, and justify it. I can't imagine how that is going to go down on Judgement. I think a lot of people live with this idea of privledge and entitltement, the princes and princesses of God who can mistreat, pity and look down upon the hired help, with no recourse for their actions - all just wiped away.

But the bible DOESN'T say that. Jesus told the Parable about a good master who forgave a man a great debt, but the man refused to forgive his serant a minor debt, and the master's debt was reinstated. You are forgiven only as you forgive others. You are not condemned, but only as you do not condemn others.

Sodom and Gomorrah wasn't about homosexuality. There were problems before the gang rape incident. As you point out, they were hostile to visitors, they had plenty but ignored the poor, needy, the helpless. They were sexually immoral (was isn't specified, but demanding the guest to come out so that you can all take turns raping them should give you a clue that it isn't like a Ernie and Bert Romance.

So, you ask the person if they have ever actually read the story. They claim to. So you ask what happens when they leave. They tell you that Lot's wife looked back, and turned into a pillar of salt, and probably deserved it.

And that's all they know. They haven't read that Lot hides in a cave with his daughters. Thinking that the world has been destroyed, they want to give their father a son, so they get him drunk, and have sex with him. The next night, the other sister does, and the give their father son/grandsons.

And Lot was in serch of the moral people? Really?

So, they will stammer, they will try to explain how Lot was "too drunk to know what happened" or claimed that he somehow passed out first, but because i have a penis, I know that doesn't work. If anything, it will be impossible to wake it up.

But they will still try to justify how God killed the Sodomites because it was a big gay beach party, although everything else points away from it.

People will tell you that the speaks clearly about homosexuality, when what we understand about homosexuality - a gay sexual orientation - wasn't even understood 50 years ago, when it was seen as a mental illness that they were trying to treat like schizophrenia. Would you take anyone seriously if they said, "The bible clearly speaks about schizophrenia" or gravity or bacteria or any of the things that we understand much differently today? Even marriage was a man and his wife - property. No one thinks like that anymore, or at least, shouldn't. They will claim that God calls it an abomination in Leviticus, and ignore the abomination referrences to a woman menstrating and not allowed into her husband's bed, shellfish and pork. In fact, they will admit that the only Levitical verses they follow are the two that condemn you. The rest don't seem to apply, as they would have to admit that they are not prepared to cast any stones themselves, since they don't follow Leviticus.

The will quote Romans in Helenistic samesex rituals and temple prostitution, which talks of worshipping the creature, and not the creator, being lying, murderous, deceitful - and then claim that they are talking about Adam and Steve living in the Upper West Side that does the Sunday Crossword together.

And why? Because it serves God? Because that is what God wants?

No. It's because they misuse the bible, as even Satan did to tempt Christ, to hide the darkness of the heart, which is their refusal to admit that a gay person is their neighbor, too, and that they don't love them.

If they did, if they genuinely cared about homosexuality, they would look to the bible and know about Ezekial, they would know about the split in theologian opinion over what it is talking about specifically, they would read books like Whhat the Bible Really Says about Homosexuality, and they would pray about it ceaselessly, as I am sure many of my gay brothers did was we lay in bed in our teens, asking God what was wrong with us, why he made us like this, and begging him to somehow change it, because we felt like a Jew in Germany, always scared of holding our books wrong, not knowing the score of the game last night, to bring us into suspicion, being austicized, or beaten up, and who would offer sympathy? Some in the church would even claim that God doesn't love you if you are gay - that you are disgusting in his eyes.

But that isn't God. You are disgusting in man's eyes. You are beautiful in God's. They don't want to know that God loves you. They don't want to know that they are to love you, and humble themselves in front of you, because it's easier to be haughty, and think yourself better than others.

They don't care what God thinks, what God wants, and their ignorance displays it.

A very mean Christian used to post her condemnation of how I was going to burn in hell, and how she was going to celebrate. I said, "I won't be answering to you, so I don't think I would start the party so soon. In fact, i'm not sure that you are invited to any celebration of God's if you are celebrating the loss of souls into hell. In fact, I would argue that you will probably realize that the God that you serve doesn't live above."

So, remember that. People that don't know, often don't want to. They want to hate gay people, they want to think that they are morally superior, they want to claim they have some power over the oppressor, that God finds them disgusting, but that is because they want to preserve that belief in their heart.

And God is the only one you have to answer to.
And he loves you just the way you are.
 
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Zeena

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So then, not only have you left your first love, but you've gone on to commit sodamy with another man?

You're also to be silent when a man is speaking and not interrupt. Get off the computer and tend to your husband. (bible)Ouch cuts both ways don't it? :D
No ouch here! :)

1 Tim 2
[12] But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]quote:[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]This statement is part of a series of present commands in this chapter (“I urge,” or “I am urging,” 2:1; “I want,” or “I am wanting,” 2:8 and unspoken in 2:9; and “I do not permit,” or “I am not permitting”). Unfortunately, the translation reads as if Paul actually wrote, “I never permit a woman to teach.” Also, the grammatical order in Greek for this phrase carries less force than the English one (“To teach, a woman I am not allowing”) and completes the thought about attentive learning in verse 11. The women in the Ephesian church were allowed to learn, but not to teach. Given the tension between the influx and recognition of women as fellow heirs of Christ within the church on the one hand, and the serious problems being caused by the false teachers on the other, Paul was affirming one right (to learn) while withholding another right (to teach) because of the condition of the church at the time. They did not need more teachers; rather, they all needed to return to the foundational truths of the gospel (2:3-7).[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some interpret this passage to mean that women should never teach in the assembled church; however, other passages point out that Paul allowed women to teach. Paul’s commended coworker, Priscilla, taught Apollos, the great preacher (Acts 18:24-26). In addition, Paul frequently mentioned other women who held positions of responsibility in the church. Phoebe worked in the church (Romans 16:1). Mary, Tryphena, and Tryphosa were the Lord’s workers (Romans 16:6, 12), as were Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2).[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]More likely, Paul restrained the Ephesian women from teaching because they didn’t yet have enough knowledge or experience. The Ephesian church had a particular problem with false teachers. Both Timothy’s presence and Paul’s letters were efforts to correct the problem. Evidently the women were especially susceptible to the false teachings (2 Timothy 3:1-9) because they did not yet have enough biblical knowledge to discern the truth. Paul may have been countering the false teachers’ urging that women should claim a place of equality for prominence in the church. Because these women were new converts, they did not yet have the necessary experience, knowledge, or Christian maturity to teach those who already had extensive scriptural education. In addition, some of the women were apparently flaunting their newfound Christian freedom by wearing inappropriate clothing (see 2:9). Paul was telling Timothy not to put anyone (in this case, women) into a position of leadership who was not yet mature in the faith (see 5:22). This deeper principle applies to churches today (3:6).[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif](Life Application Bible Commentary: 1 & 2 Timothy & Titus)[/FONT]
Always, they usually lend themselves to stereotypes so well, if they don't like it, don't play the part. Btw not that its any of your business but I don't commit "Sodamy".
Yes you do, the Scripture is clear on this.
 
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