When does the resurrection of the dead take place?

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[YSam44]

Indeed, but the author of these words is almost certainly not intending the readers to take this literally.

How do I know this? Because, at the risk of appearing immodest, I have done my homework. To wit:

1. I know that Daniel 7, which contains an extended metaphor of a Son of Man character moving up "on the clouds" to be enthroned in Heaven.

2. I know from knowledge of history that Daniel 7 was well-known to the Jews of Jesus' day;

3. I know that Jesus identified Himself as the Son of Man character from Daniel 7 in his interaction with Caiaphus ("you will see the son of man coming on the clouds").

4. Therefore, the modern image of a Jesus coming down on the clouds to gather the "raptured" is decidedly at odds with Biblical precedent - Biblical precedent has the son of man going up "on the clouds", not down;

5. I know from knowledge of history that it was common practice for people greeting an emperor to leave the city walls and meet that emperor "in the open air" outside the city gates. So when Paul writes of meeting the Lord "in the air", he does not mean that we will literally be in the air - he is drawing on a well-known image of the day that involves no one getting airborne!

There are many other reasons why the concept of the rapture is very weakly supported, if supported at all, in the Bible.

I confess to certain degree of mystification at the unwillingness of many Christians to understand that much Biblical language is metaphorical - not to be taken literally. Somehow the frankly absurd notion that the entire sprawling text of the Bible was written by simpletons who were not able to use literary device to good purpose has taken hold in much of western evangelicalism. I suggest this is clearly a major blunder.

While you would be very correct in the fact that the rapture as folks talk about it is not supported no where in the bible...the fact is that Christ will return on the clouds and the whole world will know it... Paul very much knew what he was saying in 1 Cor 15... meeting Christ in the air...

You make the statement "almost certainly not".... that in itself makes no sense... "almost no" ?

 

[YSam44]

never heard that one before.

Never? I think you would be right.... Never!!!

 

[ewq1938]

While you would be very correct in the fact that the rapture as folks talk about it is not supported no where in the bible...the fact is that Christ will return on the clouds and the whole world will know it... Paul very much knew what he was saying in 1 Cor 15... meeting Christ in the air...

You make the statement "almost certainly not".... that in itself makes no sense... "almost no" ?

You keep speaking against "the rapture" but what you really appear to be against is the pre-trib rapture which is completely different. The rapture is fully biblical but often misunderstood. Paul even uses the Greek word that would become the English word Rapture so he literally spoke about the rapture.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[All4Christ]

You keep speaking against "the rapture" but what you really appear to be against is the pre-trib rapture which is completely different. The rapture is fully biblical but often misunderstood. Paul even uses the Greek word that would become the English word Rapture so he literally spoke about the rapture.

True. Unfortunately the modern definition of "the rapture" as an event typically refers the pre-trib version.

 

[ewq1938]

True. Unfortunately the modern definition of "the rapture" as an event typically refers the pre-trib version.

Only when used incompletely. The rapture should always be identified as pre, post or mid trib.

 

[All4Christ]

Only when used incompletely. The rapture should always be identified as pre, post or mid trib.

I agree that it should be identified more clearly. Often, however, it is not specified, and most I know in person are referring to the pre-trib if the do not say otherwise.

 

[Noxot]

when they die

 

[YSam44]

You keep speaking against "the rapture" but what you really appear to be against is the pre-trib rapture which is completely different. The rapture is fully biblical but often misunderstood. Paul even uses the Greek word that would become the English word Rapture so he literally spoke about the rapture.

No, I am pretty certain I mean just what I said... People can put any spin on the rapture they want... They can go with it in its original form in other words John Derbys original in the 1800's ... or they can say that now its just a rapture after tribulation...or whatever...its sorta like one celebrating Saturnalia or maybe they dont quite agree, then change the name to Christmas and waaaala... poof you have it...

You see, the bible calls it a resurrection... or being born into the Kingdom of God... A time when mortality will put on immortality, corruption will put on incorruption...So Paul called it a resurrection of the dead v 42

 

[YSam44]

I agree that it should be identified more clearly. Often, however, it is not specified, and most I know in person are referring to the pre-trib if the do not say otherwise.

Clearly stated the rapture should not be taught...it has no biblical truth to it

 

[YSam44]

We will be caught up = raptured.

caught up to meet

choose or take, gathered up, caught up... all mean the same, but not in the context that most here think of the rapture... it is more like gathered up... take a look at

Matt 24.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13.27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

So here we see the event taking place at the return of Christ...this would be before the marriage supper... the corrupt must sow on incorruption... Read 1 cor 15

 

[YSam44]

We will be caught up = raptured.

caught up to meet

God calls it a resurrection!

 

[YSam44]

when they die

not sure what this means...

but all will die! Heb 9.27 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

all die... some will be alive at the coming of Christ... they will have laid up for themselves a crown of righteousness just as Paul spoke of for himself...the will die and sow on immortality or incorruption... they will sow on a new glory...the will die and sow this on in a twinkling of an eye...

 

[YSam44]

Fair enough. I have a response to this that will have to wait, but I certainly concede that this is a clear reference to a descent. So I agree that my arguments to this point have a problem. I am still convinced that rapture theology is wrong, though, and I believe I can "fix" my argument so that is solid.

watching

 

[Noxot]

not sure what this means...

but all will die! Heb 9.27 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

all die... some will be alive at the coming of Christ... they will have laid up for themselves a crown of righteousness just as Paul spoke of for himself...the will die and sow on immortality or incorruption... they will sow on a new glory...the will die and sow this on in a twinkling of an eye...

it means that God is the God of the living.

Matt 22:31-32 (YLT)
`And concerning the rising again of the dead, did ye not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not a God of dead men, but of living.'

 

[YSam44]

it means that God is the God of the living.

Matt 22:31-32 (YLT)
`And concerning the rising again of the dead, did ye not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not a God of dead men, but of living.'

Rom 4.17 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Rom 4.22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Abraham will rule with christ when he returns (after his resurrection of course)

Just like David who will rule the house of Israel when Christ returns (after his resurrection of course)
Jer 30.9 Instead, they will serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.

I guess this is where you were going... well I can agree with that!!!!

 

[vinsight4u]

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[Noxot]

Rom 4.17 17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Rom 4.22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

Abraham will rule with christ when he returns (after his resurrection of course)

Just like David who will rule the house of Israel when Christ returns (after his resurrection of course)
Jer 30.9 Instead, they will serve the LORD their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.

I guess this is where you were going... well I can agree with that!!!!

i'm saying this:

Matt 22:23-32 (YLT)
In that day there came near to him Sadducees, who are saying there is not a rising again, and they questioned him, saying, `Teacher, Moses said, If any one may die not having children, his brother shall marry his wife, and shall raise up seed to his brother. `And there were with us seven brothers, and the first having married did die, and not having seed, he left his wife to his brother; in like manner also the second, and the third, unto the seventh, and last of all died also the woman; therefore in the rising again, of which of the seven shall she be wife--for all had her?' And Jesus answering said to them, `Ye go astray, not knowing the Writings, nor the power of God; for in the rising again they do not marry, nor are they given in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven. `And concerning the rising again of the dead, did ye not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not a God of dead men, but of living.'

how can someone not see that Jesus plainly said that they are already alive? what, is Jesus just standing there all alone or something?