When does NO mean No?

[Ledifni]

Perhaps. Can someone tell me about a condition a woman can suffer from where the only way she could know that she was suffering from it was after penetration has happened and intercourse has officially begun? My wife has had the occasional bladder or yeast infection and she was pretty aware that intercourse was going to be a no no. WHen she was younger she may not have realised that it would hurt until after penetration, but I don't remember that happening.

A woman with any character would, if this all were the case, have alternative methods of release up her sleeve in any case. I know if the suituation were reversed I would step up to the plate. Call it sexual courtesy.

I once had a girlfriend who had problems with going dry while we were having sex. Granted, it was because she was so frigid that she would do anything to avoid actually feeling pleasure, and granted, she wouldn't let me use any kind of lubricant, but she definitely wasn't lying about it -- not when it felt like sandpaper every time I moved. And her "sexual courtesy" was limited by the fact that she didn't have any to begin with. Yeah, I see your point.

Ok, I'll grant you that in the vast majority of situations, there isn't really a good excuse for starting to have sex and then saying, "Oh, I'm sorry, this just isn't doing it for me -- the bathroom's down the hall if you'd like to touch." But I'm not prepared to say there's never an excuse, because I don't know that.

 

[Spinrad]

I once had a girlfriend who had problems with going dry while we were having sex. Granted, it was because she was so frigid that she would do anything to avoid actually feeling pleasure, and granted, she wouldn't let me use any kind of lubricant, but she definitely wasn't lying about it -- not when it felt like sandpaper every time I moved. And her "sexual courtesy" was limited by the fact that she didn't have any to begin with. Yeah, I see your point.

Ok, I'll grant you that in the vast majority of situations, there isn't really a good excuse for starting to have sex and then saying, "Oh, I'm sorry, this just isn't doing it for me -- the bathroom's down the hall if you'd like to touch." But I'm not prepared to say there's never an excuse, because I don't know that.

I think we have to distinguish between a moral obligation and simple courtesy. We ALL have a moral obligation to not impose on another person's body. If I as a man want to stop intercourse right in the middle, the woman must stop, too.

But if I did do this I would expect the woman to see me as a complete...uncourteous...jerk and never want to see me again. At least not without a great deal of explanation and contrition on my part. And therapy.

 

[chipmunk]

Perhaps. Can someone tell me about a condition a woman can suffer from where the only way she could know that she was suffering from it was after penetration has happened and intercourse has officially begun? My wife has had the occasional bladder or yeast infection and she was pretty aware that intercourse was going to be a no no. WHen she was younger she may not have realised that it would hurt until after penetration, but I don't remember that happening.

A woman with any character would, if this all were the case, have alternative methods of release up her sleeve in any case. I know if the suituation were reversed I would step up to the plate. Call it sexual courtesy.

A woman who is naive about sex may be missing a few things like the fact that virginal women can have problems with their introduction to intercourse. It can be extremely painful. My roommate tells me her first time she was in tears from the pain and bleeding was involved. It can also be painful if there was a prolonged absence of intercourse. Sizes can be an issue of pain---too small of a tunnel with a too large train. Anyone who doesn't know, just in case it's always best to not be too excited with your train if the girl is a virgin, it may lead to the scenario at the beginning.

However, I do agree, that under normal situations a woman knows if things aren't going to work out like you said yeast infections and what not. And I agree about the curtesy thing too, most definitely.

 

[Spinrad]

A woman who is naive about sex may be missing a few things like the fact that virginal women can have problems with their introduction to intercourse. It can be extremely painful. My roommate tells me her first time she was in tears from the pain and bleeding was involved. It can also be painful if there was a prolonged absence of intercourse. Sizes can be an issue of pain---too small of a tunnel with a too large train. Anyone who doesn't know, just in case it's always best to not be too excited with your train if the girl is a virgin, it may lead to the scenario at the beginning.

However, I do agree, that under normal situations a woman knows if things aren't going to work out like you said yeast infections and what not. And I agree about the curtesy thing too, most definitely.

What a marvellous point. And of course the man in that situation has the obligation to reccognise the situation and be in complete control of himself. If she says stop you better be OUT.

Ladies and gentlemen, let's get some sexual education for our young - and old - people.

 

[Chajara]

Well, don't men have a "point of no return" thing with [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]? Like, once they get to a certain point they are going to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] if a freight train comes crashing through the wall? But then, I'd say if you haven't made your mind up by that point then you really have no justification for complaining when the guy keeps going for a few seconds after you cry foul, and then has no clue what you're talking about when you yell at him for raping you because he was so close to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] he didn't even hear you.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

A woman who is naive about sex may be missing a few things like the fact that virginal women can have problems with their introduction to intercourse.

Yet another reason not to wait for marriage...

 

[praying]

Perhaps. Can someone tell me about a condition a woman can suffer from where the only way she could know that she was suffering from it was after penetration has happened and intercourse has officially begun? My wife has had the occasional bladder or yeast infection and she was pretty aware that intercourse was going to be a no no. WHen she was younger she may not have realised that it would hurt until after penetration, but I don't remember that happening.

A woman with any character would, if this all were the case, have alternative methods of release up her sleeve in any case. I know if the suituation were reversed I would step up to the plate. Call it sexual courtesy.

Ran across this. Not sure it qualifies as a "condition a woman can suffer from where the only way she could know that she was suffering from it was after penetration" but here is the news report.

There is an unusual problem shared by a surprising number of women who are embarrassed to discuss it with their doctors -- or even their husbands.

Experts think as many as two out of every thousand women avoid sexual relations because it's extremely painful.

Terri Glaeser had a secret a secret she kept from her doctor and her husband.

"I thought experiencing pain was a normal process during intercourse. It was intense pain like pressing on something that had been irritated, very painful. I just could not enjoy sex!"

Terri had seen a number of doctors who could find nothing wrong.

"Basically, they were telling me I was crazy, there was nothing wrong with me," said Terri.

Then she was referred to one local surgeon who knew her symptoms were a syndrome called POPSS.

"It essentially means pain over pubis and surrounding structures (POPSS) -- essentially a tendonitis. You get tendonitis in the shoulders, elbows, knees. The abdominal muscles that are attached to the pubic bone, or the pelvic bone can get tendonitis," said Dr. Wasudev.

http://www.wsmv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4085562

 

[Spinrad]

Well, don't men have a "point of no return" thing with [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]? Like, once they get to a certain point they are going to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] if a freight train comes crashing through the wall? But then, I'd say if you haven't made your mind up by that point then you really have no justification for complaining when the guy keeps going for a few seconds after you cry foul, and then has no clue what you're talking about when you yell at him for raping you because he was so close to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] he didn't even hear you.

When you are very young I think this is true. As an older gentleman I am confident that I could cease and desist at the drop of a hat. And obviously if [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] has begun there isn't much to do to stop it. The law has "good faith" clauses which protect people from unreasonable violation of crimes. I would think that, once the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] has begun, if the man is at least attempting to pull out or whatever he would meet the critieria. But for a woman to get the timing that dead on and say no just as the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] has begun...the odds are witheringly small.

 

[Spinrad]

Ran across this. Not sure it qualifies as a "condition a woman can suffer from where the only way she could know that she was suffering from it was after penetration" but here is the news report.

Well I certainly hope a woman with this condition is aware of it before starting. I will go ahead and retract my earlier statement and say instead that a woman who allows me to begin intercourse adn does not stop me before it gets too far if she is in pain is sexually discourteous. If something horrible happens during intercourse and causes pain, that is a different matter as well. Sometimes I forget how meaningless absolutes really are.

 

[justcallmejamie]

Well I certainly hope a woman with this condition is aware of it before starting. I will go ahead and retract my earlier statement and say instead that a woman who allows me to begin intercourse adn does not stop me before it gets too far if she is in pain is sexually discourteous. If something horrible happens during intercourse and causes pain, that is a different matter as well. Sometimes I forget how meaningless absolutes really are.

yea but no sense in throwing cold water on the moment cuz she is hurt, there are plenty of other erotic things that can take place that will make both people satisfied, sex is not always intercourse.

 

[meebs]

Most men can't think straight when they are in the middle of the act anyway

i think if a woman can think straight during the "act" then they are bored and not enjoying it.

 

[meebs]

She would certainly have a lot of explaining to do. She is trading her pain for mine. Anyone can negotiate based on physical necessity, obviously, but if it was simply a case of changing her mind I would consider her juvenile and selfish. Let her find someone more her speed.

Sooo, youre pride is hurt huh? i hope i dont meet a guy like you - no offense really (i dont think your bad but it would hurt me if a guy ditched me because i had a problem that could be fixed over time)

 

[justcallmejamie]

Sooo, youre pride is hurt huh? i hope i dont meet a guy like you - no offense really (i dont think your bad but it would hurt me if a guy ditched me because i had a problem that could be fixed over time)

i dont think thats what he said, i think he said that if the girl just arbitrarily changed her mind, just cuz she could...he said that physical pain was not the issue but her backing out the middle of intercourse, i agree with him, i think thats crappy to do. If she is just being wishy washy in her choice to share something as special as her sex with someone she is obviously not ready for a real relationship. then again i dont believe in sex before marriage...but i wasnt always saved.

 

[flicka]

I didn't read all this but in response to the OP:

I may be in the minority but in this case 'no' isn't necessarily gunna happen. It would be nice if the man would stop if the woman was having some issue or another but no woman I know would have my support if trying to prosecute the man in a case like this. Sorry but I have to give women more credit and responsibility for their actions. Once sex has been started sex has occured, you can't reverse the process by stopping.

 

[Rae]

Depends on context. I'd need to know more about their relationship to tell.

 

[Ryal Kane]

I voted 'No means no' but I think it merges a little with the seocnd and a little bit of the third.

If for example sex continues for a few seconds after her request then it shouldn't be an issue, maybe something they need to discuss. As time increases it tends more towards rape. Obviously if sex continues for several minutes, with her continued resistance, this is very much rape.

As to the 'point of no return', while the man may not be thinking too clearly, the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is going to occur regardless of penetration or not.

But yes, if either party wishes to change their mind and stop, their partner has a moral obligation to do so.

 

[Ave Maria]

No means no! He should stop if he is told not to go on. Of course this also applies to women who are raping men.... And yes, it is rape if the person is told to stop and they do not stop.

 

[meebs]

i dont think thats what he said, i think he said that if the girl just arbitrarily changed her mind, just cuz she could...he said that physical pain was not the issue but her backing out the middle of intercourse, i agree with him, i think thats crappy to do. If she is just being wishy washy in her choice to share something as special as her sex with someone she is obviously not ready for a real relationship. then again i dont believe in sex before marriage...but i wasnt always saved.

oh i agree there. i just meant when she was in actual pain - should she carry on because it hurts her too much?

 

[Spinrad]

Sooo, youre pride is hurt huh? i hope i dont meet a guy like you - no offense really (i dont think your bad but it would hurt me if a guy ditched me because i had a problem that could be fixed over time)

See my later post above. I caveated a bit. You still wouldn't like me, but at least I realised that my blanket statement was harsher than necessary. And no, not my pride. I don't want to get banned again, but let's just say once the process has begun stopping for a man is physically uncomfortable and even painful.

 

[Spinrad]

yea but no sense in throwing cold water on the moment cuz she is hurt, there are plenty of other erotic things that can take place that will make both people satisfied, sex is not always intercourse.

I thought I made that point earlier?