When does NO mean No?

[MERCY@GRACE]

This poll was asked on another board and it went something like this!

If a man and woman are about 5minutes into having sex, and the woman tells the man to stop, is it considered rape?

The choices were something like:

He should stop, no means no!

Morally it's wrong but don't think it is illegal

DEpends on her reason for telling him to stop

You can't stop a freight train once it's started.

The answers were vastly different between men and women. So what do you think and why? I will share my thoughts later!

 

[Spinrad]

No means no. I am uninterested in the legality.

 

[Silent Bob]

No is no and should be illegal...

 

[levi501]

it depends entirely on how long it takes for him to remove himself.

 

[Lycaenidae]

No means no at any point along the way. Even if he's just about to come, he has to pull out immediately.

 

[Solomon Kane]

I have to go with no means no.

Although, I would wonder at the type of person who decides to stop after penetration has occured.

 

[TeddyKGB]

I have to go with no means no.

Although, I would wonder at the type of person who decides to stop after penetration has occured.

I can certainly imagine situations in which intercourse would be uncomfortable or painful for the woman.

 

[Spinrad]

Now, for my part as the man, if I was forced to pull away in mid...progress... the woman would be keeping her liberty and the sanctity of her person. But she sould not be near me again. Good bye, good luck, stay away.

 

[chipmunk]

No, means no. Even in your hypothetical.

There are a few ways to look at the hypothetical:
1. The woman sounds like an idiot. She should probably think things through a bit more before even thinking about having sex.
2. Perhaps she did talk things through and the man was trying to push the boundaries of their previously settled arrangement.
3. He screwed something up and she got hurt?
4. She had a sudden attack of conscience?
5. Sudden sickness?
6. Etc.

 

[The-Doctor]

If she asks him to stop and he does then its not rape, if he carries on after she has withdrawn her consent then it becomes rape if I understand the law correctly.

That also applies if he believes at any time she has not given consent to sex or she is incapable of giving consent through incapacitation such as being drugged or through being below the legal age of consent. (16 in this country)

 

[Kroger99]

I voted.....
No means no, he should stop

But if she has just changed her mind and nothing is wrong.....He should leave and never get near her again because (at least from what I get from the OP) she seems to be just looking for trouble and someone to pin something on.

RUN......DON'T WALK!!!

 

[MERCY@GRACE]

O.k, since most of us are on the same page, and I noticed that the two that voted different haven't replied (it's anon so i can't see anyway) I will play devils advocate.

So we've acknowleged that he is wrong, wrong, wrong, for not stopping..but should he be jailed? Should he be lumped in w/ other 'predators' if this was his first time? Is there an understanding of sorts that it's not easy for a man to stop, once he gets to a certain point? What if he gets caught up in the moment,and doesn't realize what he did till after the fact? Does this person stand any chance of not being labeled a rapist for the rest of his life?

 

[knightlight72]

If someone doesn't stop when they have been told it is no longer consensual, then the person is a rapist, first time or not.

No means no. When does no ever mean yes?

 

[levi501]

No means no at any point along the way. Even if he's just about to come, he has to pull out immediately.

So the girls says stop in mid [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and the guy gives one extra motion(1-2seconds) he should be convicted of rape and sent to jail?

 

[knightlight72]

Legality of 1 or 2 seconds likely won't make you a rapist. (it still makes you a jerk)

I do not think someone's spouse would press charges for one or two seconds.

 

[Spinrad]

Look, no attorney in the world is going to be able to get a conviction based on the woman's testimony that once intercourse began with consent it later became unconsentual. It may be illegal, but you will not be very succesful trying to prosecute that case.

But morally the woman can end it whenver she chooses. The guy must stop when she says. If she says stop at the moment of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] the guy has to make a goodwill effort to pull out.

In a pefect world the community would then take the woman to the border and bannish her. But it's not a perfect world.

 

[chipmunk]

O.k, since most of us are on the same page, and I noticed that the two that voted different haven't replied (it's anon so i can't see anyway) I will play devils advocate.

So we've acknowleged that he is wrong, wrong, wrong, for not stopping..but should he be jailed? Should he be lumped in w/ other 'predators' if this was his first time? Is there an understanding of sorts that it's not easy for a man to stop, once he gets to a certain point? What if he gets caught up in the moment,and doesn't realize what he did till after the fact? Does this person stand any chance of not being labeled a rapist for the rest of his life?

It really, really, really depends. Is he serially preying on woman who have issues and think they need to feel close to someone even for a moment and then freak when they realize it's too much? How far along into sex are we talking? Foreplay? He's about to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]? I mean, when did the chick realize it was too much? It matters because I think it is entirely possible for him to be caught up in the moment if he's about to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], but he can't really use the same excuse if they'd not gotten past 1st base when she makes her revelation.

Yes, he does stand a chance of not being labeled a rapist. In fact, if the woman agreed to any part of their sexual exchange he'll most likely get off lighter than your average rapist and he should, unless this is a serial thing.

If she didn't have a really good excuse then any man in his right mind should run VERY far from a girl who acts that way. I'm not sure what a good excuse is, but I don't want to rule out that there might be one....

 

[levi501]

Look, no attorney in the world is going to be able to get a conviction based on the woman's testimony that once intercourse began with consent it later became unconsentual. It may be illegal, but you will not be very succesful trying to prosecute that case.

But morally the woman can end it whenver she chooses. The guy must stop when she says. If she says stop at the moment of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] the guy has to make a goodwill effort to pull out.

In a pefect world the community would then take the woman to the border and bannish her. But it's not a perfect world.

Well hypothetically lets says both participants are extremely honest and the guy says before a jury, "yes she told me to stop, but I pulled out after making one extra motion because it felt so good. It probably took 4 seconds total."

In this scenario should he be convicted of rape and sent to jail?


I'm pressing this point, because this whole "no means no" mantra is nauseatingly self-evident. Everyone knows rape is bad. But think of situations where consent is blurred and it isn't obvious. For instance, two people rolling around naked and the guy puts himself inside a woman and she realizes after a matter of seconds whats going on and tells him to stop and he immediately does. The woman in this situation might feel violated or even raped, but was she? Or how about a guy deceiving a woman into sex... or how about a woman under the influence of some chemical substance? To what degree can a lie or chemical alter some ones judgement and make them do something they wouldn't do and how much responsibility does each partner have?

 

[levi501]

O.k, since most of us are on the same page, and I noticed that the two that voted different haven't replied (it's anon so i can't see anyway) I will play devils advocate.

I took the second option and I've replied.
It depends on how long it takes for him to stop.

 

[justcallmejamie]

You can't stop a freight train once it's started.

i swear you just ripped off a line from one of my poems

it actually went


like a freight train halting because of a one syllable word