When does it become "treason"?

[Der Alte]

The charges were abuse of power and obstruction of Congress, both of which were clearly established.

Once again my request. Can you provide me with credible, verifiable evidence? I goggled and all I could find was "an unidentified informant" and a "senior official."

 

[atpollard]

The charges were abuse of power and obstruction of Congress, both of which were clearly established.

Not "clearly established" as Impeachable.
I do not say that as a Republican, but because Bill Clinton clearly and unequivocally perjuring himself by lying in a sworn Court Testimony NOT RISING TO THE LEVEL OF A HIGH CRIME AND MISDEMEANOR has historically raised the bar on what crime a President must commit to be unfit for office.

 

[Petros2015]

I do not say that as a Republican, but because Bill Clinton clearly and unequivocally perjuring himself by lying in a sworn Court Testimony NOT RISING TO THE LEVEL OF A HIGH CRIME AND MISDEMEANOR has historically raised the bar on what crime a President must commit to be unfit for office.

hahahaha. I would say trying to coup' the election puts DT in the Olympic category as far as raised bars are concerned!

 

[Speedwell]

Once again my request. Can you provide me with credible, verifiable evidence? I goggled and all I could find was "an unidentified informant" and a "senior official."

I presume you have at least read the official White House transcript of Trump's telephone conversation with Zelenskyy. That transcript was the basis of the impeachment inquiiry.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

 

[Der Alte]

I presume you have at least read the official White House transcript of Trump's telephone conversation with Zelenskyy. That transcript was the basis of the impeachment inquiiry.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

Thank you for linking this. I think it is terrible.

"The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people.. The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you’re surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney Genera1 call you or your people and I would 1ike you to get to the bottom of it As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you do it if that’s possible.
...
The other thing, There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, _that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it. It sounds horrible to me."​

Incriminating statements

#1 "I would like you to find out..."
#2 Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you do it if that’s possible.
#3 I would like to have the Attorney Genera1 call you or your people and I would 1ike you to get to the bottom of it
# 4 a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can #4 do with the Attorney General would be great.​

What is terrible is people detesting Trump so much that they would think these statements are illegal, improper etc.
The president of the USA asking, NOT demanding or bribing, the president of Ukraine to look into something. How is that improper, illegal etc?

 

[Der Alte]

hahahaha. I would say trying to coup' the election puts DT in the Olympic category as far as raised bars are concerned!

Isn't that exactly what the Democratic Party spent four years doing?

 

[Petros2015]

Isn't that exactly what the Democratic Party spent four years doing?

Apparently not; I don't recall letters like this being filed...

Extraordinary warning to Trump by 10 former Pentagon chiefs

 

[Michael]

Apparently not; I don't recall letters like this being filed...

Extraordinary warning to Trump by 10 former Pentagon chiefs

Or this:

Carl Bernstein Slams Trump Over Brad Raffensperger Call

 

[Michael]

Well, the same applies to this election.

No it doesn't!

Trump lost the popular vote (again) by more than 7 million votes. It wasn't even close.

Trump also lost the electoral college by 74 votes, not by a *single* state and only by 500 votes as was the case with Gore. Furthermore, once the process went through the legal system, Gore conceded the election *graciously*.

Trump also lost the various battleground states by *a much larger margin* than he won them in the previous election, and the margin of victory in the electoral college is exactly the same as Trump won in the last election when he called it a 'massive landslide victory'. Trump lost *badly* in both the popular vote *and* the electoral college.

In a pure democracy, since Trump lost the popular vote *both* times, he wouldn't have ever even become the President to begin with. Even *with* the help of the electoral college, Trump *lost again* by a *significant* amount, and by far more than a single state.

Trump is acting like a third world petty dictator who's intent on *ignoring* the 'will of the people", and trying hold onto power by *threat of violence* and personal intimidation.

Trump has essentially destroyed the Republican party and he's intent on destroying our constitution and our nation only to serve himself.

I guess we will find out tomorrow if Trump and the Republican party are only guilty of sedition, or if his supporters are willing to commit violence to keep him in office and willing to commit full on treason.

 

[Albion]

No it doesn't!

Trump lost the popular vote (again) by more than 7 million votes. It wasn't even close.

But we do not elect by popular vote. This election was indeed very close, not a lot different from the Gore vs. Bush election.

A change in the outcome of only a couple of states where the vote was close would put this year's election into the House of Representatives to decide.

 

[durangodawood]

But we do not elect by popular vote. This election was indeed very close, not a lot different from the Gore vs. Bush election.

A change in the outcome of only a couple of states where the vote was close would put this year's election into the House of Representatives to decide.

Multiple states all with vastly more differential than FL 2000. By this time in 2001 Gore's final concession was well in the rear view mirror. This is over, and justly so.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Multiple states all with vastly more differential than FL 2000. By this time in 2001 Gore's final concession was well in the rear view mirror. This is over, and justly so.

I won't breathe easy until at least tomorrow night ... perhaps not till Jan. 21.

 

[durangodawood]

I won't breathe easy until at least tomorrow night ... perhaps not till Jan. 21.

Even after 1/21 we still have a country where loyalists, maybe 30% of the country, remain sequestered in their poison-gas info bubbles.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Even after 1/21 we still have a country where loyalists, maybe 30% of the country, remain sequestered in their poison-gas info bubbles.

Yeah. Well, if Trump gets on that helicopter and flies away, it should deflate most of them.

 

[NxNW]

A change in the outcome of only a couple of states where the vote was close would put this year's election into the House of Representatives to decide.

This is false.

 

[Albion]

Multiple states all with vastly more differential than FL 2000.

Multiple? Yes, there are a number of states that could be questioned, but it's not as though all of them would have to be turned--or just left out of the count--for the election to be thrown into the House.

 

[Albion]

This is false.

Go ahead and explain why you think so. I'll wait.

 

[NxNW]

Go ahead and explain why you think so. I'll wait.

Because math.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

But we do not elect by popular vote. This election was indeed very close, not a lot different from the Gore vs. Bush election.

A change in the outcome of only a couple of states where the vote was close would put this year's election into the House of Representatives to decide.

Biden won this election with a very similar result to Trump’s win in 2016 which Trump called “a landslide.”

 

[Belk]

Isn't that exactly what the Democratic Party spent four years doing?

You mean the when the republican congress called for a republican lead DOJ to appoint a republican special prosecutor? That Democratic party?