When does it become "treason"?

[FreeinChrist]

It's a little bit off the subject of the Senate challenging the Electoral College results, but in 2016, three state-wide recounts were financed by the Democrats and the losing candidate of that Party maintained, throughout the term of the winner, that he was an "illegitimate" president.

Gore won the national vote and only lost the electoral vote by 500 votes in Florida. It was worth contesting because it was VERY close. However, Gore accepted the SCOTUS decision and did not call him illegitimate during his term. Here is his concession speech:

this is the text:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/elections/goretext121300.htm

.....I offered to meet with him as soon as possible so that we can start to heal the divisions of the campaign and the contest through which we just passed......

Well, in that same spirit, I say to President-elect Bush that what remains of partisan rancor must now be put aside, and may God bless his stewardship of this country.



Neither he nor I anticipated this long and difficult road. Certainly neither of us wanted it to happen. Yet it came, and now it has ended, resolved, as it must be resolved, through the honored institutions of our democracy.



Over the library of one of our great law schools is inscribed the motto, "Not under man but under God and law." That's the ruling principle of American freedom, the source of our democratic liberties. I've tried to make it my guide throughout this contest as it has guided America's deliberations of all the complex issues of the past five weeks.



Now the U.S. Supreme Court has spoken. Let there be no doubt, while I strongly disagree with the court's decision, I accept it. I accept the finality of this outcome which will be ratified next Monday in the Electoral College. And tonight, for the sake of our unity of the people and the strength of our democracy, I offer my concession.


​

What a contrast to Trump and his classless response to losing this election by millions of votes, specifically:

Biden - 81,283,485
Trump - 74,223,744

The difference: 7,059,741

 

[Albion]

Gore won the national vote and only lost the electoral vote by 500 votes in Florida. It was worth contesting because it was VERY close.

Well, the same applies to this election.

 

[jayem]

I was pointing out that if it is wrong of the Republicans to do what probably will happen next week, then it was wrong of the Democrats to start it a few elections back.

Granted. And my point is why would Republicans repeat the Democrat’s error? Why not show the country they’re better than that?

 

[FreeinChrist]

Well, the same applies to this election.

No, it doesn't.

Trump never conceded. He is, in fact, inflaming violence in regards to Biden's win, and also inspired and supported 60 losing lawsuits, and is showing no grace or class in his response.

Gohmert is inspiring sedition.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Because the claim was first made here against the Republicans as if the action was unprecedented or unthinkable, the facts are the opposite of what you are saying (above).

I was pointing out that if it is wrong of the Republicans to do what probably will happen next week, then it was wrong of the Democrats to start it a few elections back.

It is questionable who started what.

What Bob Dole Hath Wrought

This may have all started with Bob Dole. Although people tend to think of the former Senate majority leader, now 97 years old, as an old-school Republican of the pre-scorched-earth era, he was as early as 1993 a chief source of chaos and destabilization. When Bill Clinton routed the incumbent George H. W. Bush in the 1992 presidential election—bringing the Democrats to the White House for the first time in 12 years—the ornery Dole was having none of it. Many Republicans were touting the threadbare claim that Clinton had won the presidency only because the third-party candidacy of the Texas billionaire Ross Perot siphoned votes away from Bush; in fact, Perot’s voters’ second choices broke almost evenly between the two candidates.

But Dole went even further than many of his party mates (including the defeated Bush). He trumpeted the specious notion that because Clinton netted only 43 percent of the popular vote in the three-way race, he—Dole, the ranking Republican in the federal government—was the rightful representative of the other 57 percent. Other Republicans followed his lead, treating Clinton as a usurper. And when Dole tried to unseat Clinton in 1996, the Republican asserted that the news media were trying to “steal” the election from him.
​

The is the earliest that I remember the losing party claiming that the other was trying to "steal" the election.

Fact is, current Republicans are carrying this way farther that in any election since the Civil War. Losing 60 court cases wasn't enough.

 

[Albion]

Granted. And my point is why would Republicans repeat the Democrat’s error? Why not show the country they’re better than that?

Well, why is it that when Democrats do something that's shaky, it is supposed to be no big deal, but when Republicans do the same thing or something even less significant, it's the end of democracy, it's "treason," or etc.!!??

 

[Petros2015]

And my point is why would Republicans repeat the Democrat’s error? Why not show the country they’re better than that?

I think the majority of them are (better than that); the question remains how much of a minority isn't, and how much civil unrest that minority is willing to encourage and amplify as it refuses to yield. If 5 people in your country go into open revolt, its usually not much of a problem(?) Though it can be, if one of them is Timothy McVeigh or someone similar. One person with their mind dead-set on something can do some pretty amazing things, for better or for worse.

If 10% of a country goes into open revolt, that country has a HUGE problem.
America is a country of 335,000,000 citizens.
What do you think happens if 1% of it (3.35 million) goes into full open revolt because it believes claims that the election was stolen and they are 'defending democracy'?

As I do not in the slightest believe any claims that election was illegitimate, I would call anyone calling for open revolt against the results, once certified on the 6th, certainly guilty of sedition and, if in office, of treason.

 

[Albion]

I think the majority of them are (better than that); the question remains how much of a minority isn't, and how much civil unrest that minority is willing to encourage and amplify as it refuses to yield. If 5 people in your country go into open revolt, its usually not much of a problem(?) Though it can be, if one of them is Timothy McVeigh or someone similar.

If 10% of a country goes into open revolt, that country has a HUGE problem.
America is a country of 335,000,000 citizens.
What do you think happens if 1% of it (3.5 million) goes into full open revolt?

Why don't you just claim 10% or 15%, since there is not the remotest possibility of what you are predicting actually coming to pass?

 

[jayem]

Well, why is it that when Democrats do something that's shaky, it is supposed to be no big deal, but when Republicans do the same thing or something even less significant, it's the end of democracy, it's "treason," or etc.!!??

Not to belabor it, but that doesn’t answer my question. Why would Republicans engage in the same bad behavior as Democrats?

 

[Albion]

Not to belabor it, but that doesn’t answer my question. Why would Republicans engage in the same bad behavior as Democrats?

The circumstances are different, for one thing.

 

[Petros2015]

Why would Republicans engage in the same bad behavior as Democrats?

The ones that are either

1) believe that the election was stolen
or 2) believe that there is an advantage to having people believe the election was stolen
or 3) believe that there is an advantage to having people believe that they believe that the election was stolen
or 4) don't believe the election was stolen but believe the country (as they define it) or perhaps just themselves, will be better if they steal it themselves and have no qualms about doing so

2, 3 and 4 aren't necessarily mutually exclusive

 

[hedrick]

From what I understand, officials in Pennsylvania found a discrepancy of over 100,000 votes between what the state's automated counting system logged and what the manual counters logged.

Given the amount of disinformation being spread, it's hard to know what you're referring to.

 

[atpollard]

Granted. And my point is why would Republicans repeat the Democrat’s error? Why not show the country they’re better than that?

I think that 4 years of attempting to impeach a sitting President over charges that were invented and paid for by the opposing party as part of the election campaign and were completely without merit (the investigation found ZERO evidence of the mythical Russian connection to Trump) poisoned the well of any possibility of “good will”. Democratic members of Congress were publicly calling for lists of Trump supporters to be made to pay after the election. How does one offer an olive branch of peace in that sort of environment of mutual hate.

 

[Speedwell]

I think that 4 years of attempting to impeach a sitting President over charges that were invented and paid for by the opposing party as part of the election campaign and were completely without merit (the investigation found ZERO evidence of the mythical Russian connection to Trump) poisoned the well of any possibility of “good will”. Democratic members of Congress were publicly calling for lists of Trump supporters to be made to pay after the election. How does one offer an olive branch of peace in that sort of environment of mutual hate.

The impeachment had nothing to do with Russia or the Mueller investigation. It was a separate matter entirely.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

I think that 4 years of attempting to impeach a sitting President over charges that were invented and paid for by the opposing party as part of the election campaign and were completely without merit (the investigation found ZERO evidence of the mythical Russian connection to Trump) poisoned the well of any possibility of “good will”. Democratic members of Congress were publicly calling for lists of Trump supporters to be made to pay after the election. How does one offer an olive branch of peace in that sort of environment of mutual hate.

Truth.

 

[jayem]

I think that 4 years of attempting to impeach a sitting President over charges that were invented and paid for by the opposing party as part of the election campaign and were completely without merit (the investigation found ZERO evidence of the mythical Russian connection to Trump) poisoned the well of any possibility of “good will”. Democratic members of Congress were publicly calling for lists of Trump supporters to be made to pay after the election. How does one offer an olive branch of peace in that sort of environment of mutual hate.

Have I in any way tried to justify what Democrats have done? But here’s is my point in general terms: Just because some jerk treated you badly, doesn’t mean you should act like a jerk, too. This is the thinking of a vengeful child: You did it to me. So I’ll do it to you. When our politicians act this way, who benefits? Definitely not we, the people. Elected officials keep grievances alive only to keep their voters angry and motivated. As someone said, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. We deserve much better from our political leaders.

 

[Der Alte]

Aside from your blatantly one sided view of the last four years, this kind of political attack nonsense has being going on for a long time including a Republican lead 'Whitewater" real estate land deal investigation that politically morphed itself into a Republican witch hunt requiring them to analyze fluids found on dress. Please! The Republican's have pulled their own share of political stunts, including impeachment. Trump was the one caught calling for political favors from foreign governments in exchange for military and financial aid....

Does not every Democrat have a one sided view?
Since this is all true why the outrage from the DP?
Show me where any, of this happened, "Trump was the one caught calling for political favors from foreign governments in exchange for military and financial aid."

 

[Der Alte]

The impeachment had nothing to do with Russia or the Mueller investigation. It was a separate matter entirely.

Please tell us what the impeachment charges were and what evidence they had other than "an unidentified investigator" and "a senior official?"

 

[hedrick]

Please tell us what the impeachment charges were and what evidence they had other than "an unidentified investigator" and "a senior official?"

The charges were abuse of power and obstruction of Congress, both of which were clearly established.

 

[disciple Clint]

No, it's not their 'duty' to call for violent protests and to try to overturn the results of the electoral college. Biden won the battleground states by a *much* wider margin than Trump won them in 2016, yet you didn't see the Democrats try to overturn the results of that election when the results were presented to congress.

Rep. Gohmert Calls for Street Violence as MAGA World Spirals

Let us just say that you are uninformed. House Democrats to challenge Trump's Electoral College win
"A Democratic congresswoman from Texas confirmed late Thursday that she and as many as 10 colleagues will contest the validity of Donald Trump's election Friday, when lawmakers meet at the Capitol to certify Trump's Electoral College victory.

Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee said in a phone interview that she and her allies plan to challenge the validity of electoral votes in multiple states, where she argued voter suppression tactics may have tainted the outcome. She said a separate batch of challenges will focus on disqualifying electors who may have been ineligible to serve at all."
Also per your article "Gohmert then seemed to encourage violence as a means to this end. “But bottom line is, the court is saying, ‘We’re not going to touch this. You have no remedy’—basically, in effect, the ruling would be that you gotta go the streets and be as violent as Antifa and BLM.” That is far from a call to violence.