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Featured When did the 10 Commandments Begin

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by PROPHECYKID, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    Hebrews 13:8
    Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    He does not change and neither does his law.
     
  2. Greengardener

    Greengardener for love is of God Supporter

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    It might be that Carl was saying that the 10 commandments were a specific mention of what God imparted to every person, as in, "Here, let me make sure that you know that I, God, am behind this sense of right and wrong activities that you innately know." When you consider the point in time that the 10 Commandments were carved into stone with God's own finger (and who knows how much power God had to hold back to make that happen!) those tablets were given to His people who had been indoctrinated into the Egyptian culture for several hundred years. They had the oral traditions, I would think, which included the system of right versus wrong handed down but they also had what they lived seeing every day in the pagan culture around them. Obviously God was setting them up for success by making sure they had a good foundation, and obviously they were tempted to fall back on pagan practices at every stressing moment in spite of strong help like tablets of stone, water from the Rock, a Cloud by day and a pillar by night, and manna except on Sabbaths.
     
  3. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    Probably just as soon as they (sins) were identified...


    *I think they were identified before Sinai.
     
  4. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    Well that's sort of back into front. How can the sins be identified if there was no law?
     
  5. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    I would say that there was law.
     
  6. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Did you agree with my quote in Romans 1?
     
  7. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    I don't think it's an all-or-nothing situation.

    The Torah is specifically the set of instructions which God gave to the Jewish people. The Torah includes universal commandments such as "don't murder", but also the very specific instructions for the Jews as the covenant nation, such as the which foods are clean and unclean or the various rites and functions of the priesthood and Tabernacle/Temple.

    So murder is always wrong. But not resting on the Sabbath is only wrong if one is a Jew and under the covenant God established through Moses.

    Understanding the distinction between the Torah specifically and God's moral Law broadly is important.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  8. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    I think the answer you're looking for is in Romans 5
     
  9. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    The law started when God placed it on the Hebrews. Before that, faith was the law.
     
  10. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Romans 5
    12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
    13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
    15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
    16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
     
  11. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    Lets talk about verse 13 because its interested. I looked it up in different version just as a comparison.

    Romans 5:13
    (ASV) for until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    (BBE) Because, till the law came, sin was in existence, but sin is not put to the account of anyone when there is no law to be broken.
    (CEV) Sin was in the world before the Law came. But no record of sin was kept, because there was no Law.
    (ERV) Sin was in the world before the Law of Moses. But God does not consider people guilty of sin if there is no law.
    (ESV) for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
    (ESV+) for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but R24sin is not counted where there is no law.
    (ISV) Certainly sin was in the world before the Law was given, but no record of sin is kept when there is no Law.

    Also verse 20 is important too.

    Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

    At face value it seems like Paul is saying here that in the beginning there was no law but there was sin and so in order for God to be able to hold man accountable he had to give the law. But the problem I have with that is, how can there be sin if there is not some kind of law that is being violated? Could it be that Paul just meant that God had to give the law in a written form because God did hold Cain accountable for killing his brother. He destroyed the people in the days of Noah so he held them accountable too. He destroyed the nations of Sodom and Gomorrah. So before Moses was given the law and wrote the law we do see God holding people accountable. So what do you believe Paul to be saying because I can't see how there is sin without any type of law in existence.
     
  12. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    So, before the law...was the law?
     
  13. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    Well yes but I just don't really agree that the ten commandments would have been an addition to the knowledge of right and wrong that God naturally imparts to man based on this scripture.

    Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
     
  14. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    Maybe it was a universal contract of some sort between the Creator and the angels, which did not apply to humans until later.


    *Like laws within laws...wheels within wheels...
     
  15. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Are we going to ignore this clear reference to Law before the ten commandments?

    "Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”

    Gen 26:5
     
  16. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Which proves there was a time before the law existed.
     
  17. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    Well Cain killed Abel and he knew it was wrong. God punished Cain as a result. So Cain had to be in violation of something and he knew he was.
     
  18. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    Well the problem is that you cannot say that the ten commandments were not included in the commandments that God told Abraham and why won't they be included? Why would God not want Abraham to keep the 10 commandments?
     
  19. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Abraham paid tithe to Melchizedek. This is considered to be a greater Priesthood then the Leviticus priesthood. Adam and Abraham had a covenant with God but the Law was not given until Moses.
     
  20. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Sin basically means to miss the mark.

    Sin was missing the mark in God's eyes.

    There was no basis to judge sin before the law since God didn't say anything regarding it.

    Since the law was nailed to the cross with Jesus, we are now back to the previous standard with more understanding. The standard being missing the mark with God.
     
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