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Featured When did the 10 Commandments Begin

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by PROPHECYKID, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    You realized Satan never tempted Eve to murder her husband?

    It make sense why Paul stated that the strength of sin is the law.
     
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  2. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    That doesnt sit well with Romans 1 as I quoted earlier. Sin is sin and has always had consequences, law or not... Do you expect to meet Cain in Heaven?
     
  3. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

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    Interesting question there, Scripture was silent on whether Adam, Eve, Cain, or Esau were saved at the end.

    Hebrews 11 started with Abel, so was Adam, Eve or Cain saved? No one can be 100% sure. If you are not sure whether Adam was in heaven or not, I do believe he is, how can anyone be sure about Cain's eventual fate?
     
  4. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    OT folk were saved by having faith in a saving God.

    Cain will be there or not depending on if he repented. David will be there, Paul will be there - both were accomplices to murder. Both repented.
     
  5. D.A. Wright

    D.A. Wright Once For All-ist Supporter

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    A commandment is not the same as a covenant, not even in Hebrew.

    And they took their journey from Elim, and all the congregation of the children of Israel came to the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after their departing out of the land of Egypt. (Exodus 16:1)

    Then said the LORD to Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no. (Exodus 16:4)

    And the LORD said to Moses, How long refuse you to keep my commandments and my laws? (Exodus 16:28)

    In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai. (Exodus 19:1)
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They called it "the Ark of the Covenant" because the Ten Commandments therein were the Covenant.
     
  7. D.A. Wright

    D.A. Wright Once For All-ist Supporter

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    Are you sure you don't want to give that a little thought before everyone wakes up and sees it?

    What exactly was "the old covenant" (as modern Christendom likes to call it)?
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant

    “And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.” Exodus 34:28

    “And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.” Deuteronomy 4:13:

    “When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.” Deuteronomy 9:9:

    “So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.” Deuteronomy 9:15:

    “There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt,” I Kings 8:9

    “And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.” I Kings 8:21

    The second of these two texts is repeated in II Chronicles 6:11.

    Consider “The ark of the covenant” that held the Ten Commandments (Numbers 10:33; Jeremiah 3:16, and other places)

    Also; “It contained the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered entirely with gold. In this ark were the golden urn containing the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant.” (Hebrews 9:4) (NET)
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They had laws but not the Ten Commandments. All know how they want to be treated so they have the Two Great Commandments in their heart from birth.
     
  10. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As I understand the Two Great Commandments of love for God and people are written in the heart of all. That is, we know how we want to be treated, but we do not treat others as our own-selves = sin. But in those born again, these laws become a driving force in all of our thoughts and actions. So we naturally live in harmony with the Ten through them. As Paul says, love fulfills the law.

    But the Ten Commandments were a street level version of the Two Great Commandments designed for the wicked. Jesus says they hung from the Two Great Commandments. Forcing the wicked to act good or suffer loss. Or promising success if they obeyed.

    “realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,” 1 Timothy 1:9–10 (NASB95)


    God removed the wicked and the Ten Commandments from Israel under the New Covenant leaving only believers as Israel. To whom he grafted believing gentiles into. Believers as always, walk in the light of the Two Great Commandments.
     
  11. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are confusing the Two Great Commandments written in every heart from birth. With the Ten Commandments written to wicked unbelievers at Sinai.
     
  12. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    Look, Everybody who walked with God in the OT had faith. Law was never ever meant to be a replacement for faith. That is a pharisee narrative and nobody is a pharisee here.

    So Abraham kept God's commandments, his statutes, etc and still had faith which proves that obedience and faith go hand in hand but do not conflict. Abraham was justified because of his faith, not because of his works but because of his faith he was obedient. How is that different to today's situation.
     
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Two Great Commandments of love for God and people are written in the heart of all. That is, we know how we want to be treated, but we do not treat others as our own-selves = sin. But in those born again, these laws become a driving force in all of our thoughts and actions. So we naturally live in harmony with the Ten through them. As Paul says, love fulfills the law.

    But the Ten Commandments were a street level version of the Two Great Commandments designed for the wicked. Jesus says they hung from the Two Great Commandments. Forcing the wicked to act good or suffer loss. Or promising success if they obeyed.

    God removed the wicked and the Ten Commandments from Israel under the New Covenant leaving only believers as Israel. To whom he grafted believing gentiles into. Believers as always, walk in the light of the Two Great Commandments.
     
  14. Yarddog

    Yarddog Senior Contributor Supporter

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    Because his obedience wasn't tied to a list written down. It was tied to what God told him. Abraham walked in God's Spirit. There was no law other than that.
     
  15. D.A. Wright

    D.A. Wright Once For All-ist Supporter

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    You know, I've struggled with this "old covenent" subject for a long time. I've been under the impression that it was nearly pointless because the promises were conditional upon the behavior of presumptuous sinful men. And since I believed (and still do) that the commandments existed from the earth's creation, it just didn't seem to be very substantial. The fact that God promised prosperity with their keeping seems not to have impressed me as I now believe it perhaps should have. I've always believed that their keeping would bless us today, but because I judged the Israelites as being insincere, I don't think it occured to me that many of them were struggling to understand and please God, nevertheless. It's actually kind of embarrassing to admit that. And that reminds me that I was arrogant and condescending toward you and owe you a heartfelt apology. I hope you will consider it to be sincere. I think I have some praying and studying to do. Thank you for opening my eyes to this.
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Keep in mind, the Ten Commandments forced wicked people to act as though they loved God and others. This was under threat of death, sickness, exile, and loss of the promises. And when they obeyed, they thought they were good because they didn't steal when they wanted to. But those among them with the New Birth didn't want to steal. They had the Two Great Commandments of love for God and people fully activated in their heart by the Holy Spirit.
     
  17. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    The first of the "two new commandments" are direct relationship to the first four of the ten commandments, how to love GOD,

    Jesus said

    John 14:15
    If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Which the nation of Israel did not do.

    The second of the "two new commandments" are direct relationship to the last six of the ten commandments, how to love your neighbor

    The reason they were new because the Israel nation were not keeping the law according to GOD so to the Israel nation they were "NEW"

    Jeremiah 31:32-34 King James Version (KJV)
    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    (this says "after those days" not at birth so Adam and Eve did not have it written on their hearts at birth)

    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Hebrews 13:8 [Full Chapter]
    Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
     
  18. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus said the Ten Commandments HUNG from the Two Great Commandments = they did not exist until Sinai.
    “And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Matthew 22:39–40 (KJV 1900)
     
  19. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    So did David not also walk in God's spirit? Does the law remove God's spirit?
     
  20. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    Well then they obviously did exist, not in written form but in principle based on the Two Great Commandments. Because the great 2 commandments accomplishes the 10 and many more.
     
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