What's your philosophy for Hell? Hell only?

[Gottservant]

Please cite your sources, how do you know hell exists, and that people there can't have whatever?

Hell exists because it would not be possible to have a Philosophy of Hell, if it did not, and the Devil does (exist, flee Hell, torment sinners).

This is in the vein of "I think, therefore I am" which I am sure you recognize to be Descartes.

The reason people in Hell can't have whatever, is simply that they destroy whatever (yes, even "whatever").

I suppose the problem for you is that Hell is not a function of knowledge, yet you think you need to know ("first"). No one can "know" there is a Hell, unless he has sinned, in the Devil. I thought of a reasoned argument that elaborates this, but I am frequently accused of not coming full circle quick enough (so I ask if we may please think about what I have said first).

 

[Gracchus]

In my view, whether you are in heaven or hell, is strictly a matter of differing personal reactions to the same conditions. "Truth is the light of heaven and the fire of hell." If you can't bear the truth, if you can't live with everyone knowing you, seeing you morally naked, you are in hell.

 

[Gottservant]

In my view, whether you are in heaven or hell, is strictly a matter of differing personal reactions to the same conditions. "Truth is the light of heaven and the fire of hell." If you can't bear the truth, if you can't live with everyone knowing you, seeing you morally naked, you are in hell.

Actually, I can expand on that, by the Grace of God.

Truth that shines is the light of Heaven, and Meaning that burns is the fire of Hell.

You were close.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Hell exists because it would not be possible to have a Philosophy of Hell, if it did not, and the Devil does (exist, flee Hell, torment sinners).

This is in the vein of "I think, therefore I am" which I am sure you recognize to be Descartes.

The reason people in Hell can't have whatever, is simply that they destroy whatever (yes, even "whatever").

I suppose the problem for you is that Hell is not a function of knowledge, yet you think you need to know ("first"). No one can "know" there is a Hell, unless he has sinned, in the Devil. I thought of a reasoned argument that elaborates this, but I am frequently accused of not coming full circle quick enough (so I ask if we may please think about what I have said first).

This makes no sense at all.... Just because someone created a concept of Hell, hell must exist?

What about Wonderland, or Mordor?

Fictional places exist. Just because someone built a philosophy around a fictional place, doesn't make it any more real.

 

[pamsight]

This makes no sense at all.... Just because someone created a concept of Hell, hell must exist?

What about Wonderland, or Mordor?

Fictional places exist. Just because someone built a philosophy around a fictional place, doesn't make it any more real.

Hell is eternal separation from God. God is the only source of good. Also it is a place created for the devil and his fallen angels, not created for people. However, people who reject God, will go to hell. Which if you really think about it is only fair, if a person wants nothing to do with God in life, why would he want to spend his afterlife, or eternity, with God. He won't force Himself on you here, why would He force you in eternity ? I love you people who reason that because you don't believe in it, it's not real. You can't see it, so it doesn't exist. Ever think about other things you can't see, or touch in that way ? Or is it only this subject? Do you debate air for example, you can see it, did somebody just make it up?

 

[Gadarene]

Hell is eternal separation from God. God is the only source of good. Also it is a place created for the devil and his fallen angels, not created for people. However, people who reject God, will go to hell.

You may want to consider why - or even how - an omnipotent, omniscient being can end up using something in a way other than its intended purpose.

Which if you really think about it is only fair, if a person wants nothing to do with God in life, why would he want to spend his afterlife, or eternity, with God. He won't force Himself on you here, why would He force you in eternity ?

There's the tiniest difference between leaving people be and lighting them on fire for all eternity over a difference of opinion.

I love you people who reason that because you don't believe in it, it's not real.

Did Dave say that? You may wish to read his post a bit more carefully.

I love "you people" who think they know what nonbelief is and then pratfall over their own ignorance.

You can't see it, so it doesn't exist. Ever think about other things you can't see, or touch in that way ? Or is it only this subject? Do you debate air for example, you can see it, did somebody just make it up?

Please, keep the entertainment up

 

[Freodin]

Hell is eternal separation from God. God is the only source of good. Also it is a place created for the devil and his fallen angels, not created for people. However, people who reject God, will go to hell. Which if you really think about it is only fair, if a person wants nothing to do with God in life, why would he want to spend his afterlife, or eternity, with God. He won't force Himself on you here, why would He force you in eternity ?

The logical consequence of that would be: Hell is just like Earth. If you add the assumed immortality to that, it would even be better. Main problem might be boredom, but that could be a problem in Heaven as well.

 

[pamsight]

I'm glad I've been able to entertain you, that makes my day . And the name calling, very mature, you are a real sweetheart !
Bottom line in this is simple though, even an ignorant person such as you describe me, can understand it. God is God and you aren't . You didn't create this world, or the people in it, He did. So He gets to make the rules, you don't . The clay doesn't have the right to scold the Potter.

 

[Gadarene]

I'm glad I've been able to entertain you, that makes my day . And the name calling, very mature, you are a real sweetheart !

Right, because you weren't being rude at all.

Re-read the bits where Jesus condemns hypocrisy, perhaps.

Bottom line in this is simple though, even an ignorant person such as you describe me, can understand it. God is God and you aren't . You didn't create this world, or the people in it, He did. So He gets to make the rules, you don't . The clay doesn't have the right to scold the Potter.

Some of us have integrity about these things - evidently, some people do not.

 

[pamsight]

Right, because you weren't being rude at all.

Re-read the bits where Jesus condemns hypocrisy, perhaps.

Some of us have integrity about these things - evidently, some people do not.

So sorry if you were offended, but I still haven't called you any names, so far you've called be ignorant, rude, hypocrite, and implied I lack integrity . So, it's ok for you to judge me, right ? I can assure you
I believe in God and His word. Do you ? Nevermind, your beliefs are none of my business, I was just commenting on a thread in an open forum.

 

[Gadarene]

So sorry if you were offended, but I still haven't called you any names, so far you've called be ignorant, rude, hypocrite, and implied I lack integrity . So, it's ok for you to judge me, right ?

No, you just misrepresented a vast swathe of people.

It's not like false testimony is wrong or anything like that.

I can assure you
I believe in God and His word. Do you ?

Believe but not follow, apparently.

Nevermind, your beliefs are none of my business, I was just commenting on a thread in an open forum.

As we all are. Have a gold star.

 

[Rajni]

Hell is eternal separation from God.

How can one be separated from an Omnipresent deity? Even the Christian bible expounds on the impossibility of being anywhere God isn't.

Also it is a place created for the devil and his fallen angels, not created for people. However, people who reject God, will go to hell.

Since God is Omniscient, and knows the end from the beginning, He would have known what hell would've ultimately been used for upon creating it. So the "intended purpose" argument doesn't work if one also wants to maintain the idea of God's Omniscience.

Which if you really think about it is only fair, if a person wants nothing to do with God in life, why would he want to spend his afterlife, or eternity, with God.

Well, if the purpose of hell is to punish someone with eternal misery, why wouldn't he be made to spend his afterlife with a God he didn't believe in or like?

He won't force Himself on you here, why would He force you in eternity ?

Using that same approach, why would He "force" anyone to choose between heaven or hell?

I love you people who reason that because you don't believe in it, it's not real. You can't see it, so it doesn't exist. Ever think about other things you can't see, or touch in that way ? Or is it only this subject? Do you debate air for example, you can see it, did somebody just make it up?

The problem with your hell concept is that it cannot be maintained while at the same time maintaining God's Omnisicence, Omnipotence, and Omnipresence. In order for the hell thing to work, God must be demoted to some lesser entity. Just speaking for myself, I love Him too much to do that -- it would feel like I'm committing blasphemy.

 

[pamsight]

It sounds like that's what you are doing right now. My beliefs are from the Bible, Jesus spoke of hell and demons often.
Jesus took the punishment that we all deserve, on Himself, so that we don't have to be separated from Him. We were also given free will, and a mind of our own, to do as we want to. Don't you see, God isn't sending anyone anywhere, He lets each one decide that for himself.
I'm not trying be be difficult , I'm just not seeing what is causing the conflict with this subject. May I ask what your beliefs are and how you came to them ?

 

[Gottservant]

This makes no sense at all.... Just because someone created a concept of Hell, hell must exist?

What about Wonderland, or Mordor?

Fictional places exist. Just because someone built a philosophy around a fictional place, doesn't make it any more real.

Are fictional places in Hell? May be they are?

 

[Gottservant]

There's the tiniest difference between leaving people be and lighting them on fire for all eternity over a difference of opinion.

The difference is one destroys the flesh, the other destroys the spirit.

Discerning that difference is the difference between life and death.

If I say to you, "drink, ignore poison"... do you end up dead?

The Fear of God protect you.

 

[Gottservant]

The clay doesn't have the right to scold the Potter.

Only what looks like the Potter, apparently?

Great defence of the faith!

 

[dlamberth]

The difference is one destroys the flesh, the other destroys the spirit.

Being an activity of God, I don't think that the soul can be destroyed any more than God can be destroyed.

.

 

[Gottservant]

For the purposes of staying on thread.

I remind you that the point is supposed to be that you come up with a Philosophy of Hell.

Key concepts to Philosophy are "Toleration" and "Concept", a key concept to Hell is "Torment".

 

[Rajni]

It sounds like that's what you are doing right now. My beliefs are from the Bible, Jesus spoke of hell and demons often.
Jesus took the punishment that we all deserve, on Himself, so that we don't have to be separated from Him. We were also given free will, and a mind of our own, to do as we want to. Don't you see, God isn't sending anyone anywhere, He lets each one decide that for himself.

If Jesus already took the punishment we all deserve, then why would God send anyone to this 'hell'? The punishment has already been dealt, and the case should therefore be closed, no?

I'm not trying be be difficult , I'm just not seeing what is causing the conflict with this subject.

I can't speak for everyone, but the conflict for me is as I mentioned earlier; in order to maintain the concept of hell, God would have to be demoted to a lesser being that either didn't know what he was getting himself into when he created mankind or didn't know everything that hell would be used for when he created it. It doesn't gel with God being Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent. Since I believe He's the latter, I can't also accept the hell concept without some serious cognitive dissonance.

May I ask what your beliefs are and how you came to them?

So as to not derail the thread, you can check out my profile and the more recent posts in my blog here on CF to get the details on all that.

 

[Gottservant]

If Jesus already took the punishment we all deserve, then why would God send anyone to this 'hell'?

BECAUSE to be able to avoid Hell, you have to be able to call Hell "Hell" and everyone at some point, refuses to (call Hell Hell)

If you need God to do it for you, and you get there

TOO LATE