What's the point? Evolution...

[djgreene]

and futher more The tops of all the high mountains under the entire heavens were at least 20 feet beneath the waters surface (Genesis 7:19-20). It would be absurd to think that a flood covering the highest mountains of the Middle East would not affect the rest of the world. In addition, the waters remained at this awesome, mountain-covering height for five months! (Genesis 7:18-24, 8:1-5).

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Ok when this thread was started, everyone said I needed evidence to back up what I was saying, so Im giving you evidence to show my case, by a scientific view. And now your complaining about it. I gave you evidence what more do you want?
I"ve giving my opinion, and I've gave you evidence.

You gave us somebody else's opinion without even commenting on it. Several people posted rebuttals (see the "Noah's Ark found" posts) and you didn't even bother to reply. Instead, you posted even more random snippets copied from various creationist websites.

Pick a topic and start a new thread, please. I promise I'll participate.

 

[djgreene]

You gave us somebody else's opinion without even commenting on it. Several people posted rebuttals (see the "Noah's Ark found" posts) and you didn't even bother to reply. Instead, you posted even more random snippets copied from various creationist websites.

Pick a topic and start a new thread, please. I promise I'll participate.

Im just covering all views, of discussing in this thread. and presenting evidence on all cases.

 

[djgreene]

Im not giving other opinions Im giving scientific fact that has been found.

 

[Vene]

The Second Law of Thermodynamics Confirms Psalm 102:26 First, let us consider the science of thermodynamics: In Psalm 102:25,26, we read, "Of old hast Thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of Thy hands. They shall perish, but Thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt Thou change them, and they shall be changed."

Has nothing to do with transfer of heat. The rest of the conclusions about the second law are irrelevant as it starts with faulty understanding.

In verse 25, we find, restated, the fact that God is the Creator of all that exists. Verse 26 then tells us something highly significant, not about the initial, created state of the universe, but about the present state of the universe. According to this Scripture, written three thousand years before the dawn of modern science, we learn that the universe is like a suit of clothes that is wearing out. In other words, the universe is running down, deteriorating, constantly becoming less and less orderly.

That is an oversimplification of the second law. It states that overall entropy increases in closed systems (which the earth is no). Entropy is a measure of the ability of heat to do work. Your source misunderstands what entropy and the second law actually state.

The Universe Must Have Had a Beginning

Furthermore, the fact that the universe is deteriorating establishes beyond doubt that it hasn't been here forever, because if it had, it would have run down a long time ago! This confirms another scientifically testable statement found in the very first verse of the Bible: "In the beginning God created...." This verse of Scripture states that the universe has not been here forever; that it had a beginning sometime in the past. Again, let us remember that this is not what most people believed when the Bible was written. They believed that the universe had been here forever, and would continue to be here forever. The Bible says, not so! The universe had a beginning - when God created it - and it is now running down. Thus, modern science has established the fact that what most people believed about the universe being eternal was wrong, and that the Biblical statements on the subject were precisely correct.

The Greeks also thought the universe had a beginning. Big deal. They predate both Judaism and Christianity.

The Finished Creation Confirmed by the First Law of Thermodynamics

If there is a second law of thermodynamics, there must be a first law, of course. Indeed there is, and this natural law confirms another scientifically testable statement found in the Bible. The First Law of Thermodynamics states that the total quantity of energy and matter in the universe is a constant. One form of energy may be converted into another, energy may be converted into matter, and matter may be converted into energy, but the total quantity always remains the same. You can't get something from nothing, and you can't take something and make nothing out of it.
The First Law of Thermodynamics, the most firmly established natural law in science, confirms the Biblical statement concerning a finished creation, as found in Genesis 2:1,2: "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made."

So God is a physical being that ripped energy away form himself to form the universe and then broke the first law by regenerating the energy he lost? That's what this sounds like to me. If he's physical, where is he now? If not, energy is being created, which is a violation of the first law.

 

[necroforest]

Im not giving other opinions Im giving scientific fact that has been found.

And then when someone debunks them, you don't bother replying, instead posting a wall of unrelated text you got from somewhere else.

And on the idea of "the universe had to have a beginning": Either the universe had a beginning or it didn't. You can just guess and you still have 50/50 odds of being right.

 

[Vene]

Im not giving other opinions Im giving scientific fact that has been found.

No, you're not. The text you are pasting shows a misunderstanding of simple scientific theories and principles.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Im just covering all views, of discussing in this thread. and presenting evidence on all cases.

Fine. Post 140 tells us that the expedition that supposedly found Noah's Ark never even happened because the Turkish government refused to issue a visa.

Post 143 shows that there isn't nearly enough water on this planet to make global flood possible.

I await your replies.

 

[djgreene]

No, you're not. The text you are pasting shows a misunderstanding of simple scientific theories and principles.

well please if everyone is so much smarter than I, please explaine everything to me. I can also debunk what you say, just as you can I, cause there are views on both sides of the Story.

 

[djgreene]

Comment 161 explanes that

 

[atomweaver]

I am giving you scientific quotes, that scientist have found truth in the bible.

Then why do you need to use religious sources for your links, and why aren't the names of these scientists posted prominently? Most of the quotes of scientific sources in your "wall of quotes" deliberately obfuscate their authors... is your quoted author ,whoever s/he is, afraid of the repercussions, if he made their source more clear?

You would like to have the authoritative validity of a scientific evidenciary postion for your religious assertions, and on their face, your 'wall of quotes' gives you that. Scratch the surface, and its painfully clear that these sources are lacking in evidence to back up their claims...

Sadly, it is only because you don't know the methods of science well enough to differentiate good science from bad, that these quotes look 'scientific enough' for you to post them here, and then assert that your views have a scientific basis.
But, science is not just about saying things with a clear, authoritative voice. Anybody can do that. Its the evidence behind a claim, that makes the claim either scientifically valid, or pseudo-scientific junk.

 

[Baggins]

Satellite pictures taken last summer of Mount Ararat in Turkey may reveal the final resting place of Noah's ark, according to Daniel McGivern, the businessman and Christian activist behind a planned summer 2004 expedition to investigate the site.
"We're telling people we're 98 percent sure," said McGivern, a member of the Hawaii Christian Coalition. "In one image we saw the beams, saw the wood. I'm convinced that the excavation of the object and the results of tests run on any collected samples will prove that it is Noah's ark. "

It turned out to be a rock formation eroded by a mud flow.

http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/notark.html

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/wyatt.html

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/ronwyatt.htm

even answersingenesis say it is baloney

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v14/i4/report.asp

Another christian site saying it isn't true:

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:...'s+ark+ararat+basalt&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=uk

This is the scientific paper that explains the many boat shaped structures on Mt Ararat:

http://noahsarksearch.com/AvciMurat/TelcekerEarthFlow.pdf

I hate to burst your bubble but this one even makes creationist organisations cringe because it has been so thoroughly refuted.

 

[Baggins]

Ok then lets start with the flood questions. about the water being higher than the mountains.

Noah's flood did not cover the entire Earth nor all the mountains of the day. Further, they claim that Noah and the animals floated on a shallow, temporary inland sea caused by the flood, somehow covering only the Mesopotamian region. Thus, they must claim that the Earth's entire human population was limited to this area, or that not all humans were killed in the flood.[/QUOTE]

Bingo!

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Comment 161 explanes that

Post 161 explains nothing. It merely reaffirms that the Flood was indeed global and covered the highest mountains on earth under 20 feet of water.

There is not enough water on this planet to do that. It's impossible.

 

[Loudmouth]

"Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." —Albert Einstein



Yet scientists may be just as likely to believe in God as other people, according to surveys. Some of history's greatest scientific minds, including Albert Einstein, were convinced there is intelligent life behind the universe.

Why must creationists always lie about Einstein's religious beliefs? Einstein believed in Spinoza's God, the Nature God. For Einstein, Nature is God. They are one in the same, not separate entities..

 

[atomweaver]

well please if everyone is so much smarter than I, please explaine everything to me. I can also debunk what you say, just as you can I, cause there are views on both sides of the Story.

Journalism will tell you there are two sides to every story. Science tells you that not all explanations for a phenomenon have the same amount of validity. Scientific validity is proportionate to the evidence which supports a theory...

 

[Loudmouth]

I am giving you scientific quotes, that scientist have found truth in the bible.

You are giving us stuff that is non-scientific and false.

It would be much better if you could pick a single topic and discuss things in your own words. Spamming the board with cut&pasted material is considered to be bad form.

 

[TheBear]

Good grief!!! This thread has become a frenzied quote-mine fest!

 

[djgreene]

"Post 143 shows that there isn't nearly enough water on this planet to make global flood possible."


Here is What I found

Geophysically, we begin with a pre-Flood earth differentiated into core, mantle, and crust, with the crust horizontally differentiated into sialic craton and mafic ocean floor. The Flood was initiated as slabs of oceanic floor broke loose and subducted along thousands of kilometers of pre-Flood continental margins. Deformation of the mantle by these slabs raised the temperature and lowered the viscosity of the mantle in the vicinity of the slabs. A resulting thermal runaway of the slabs through the mantle led to meters-per-second mantle convection. Cool oceanic crust which descended to the core/mantle boundary induced rapid reversals of the earth's magnetic field. Large plumes originating near the core/mantle boundary expressed themselves at the surface as fissure eruptions and flood basalts. Flow induced in the mantle also produced rapid extension along linear belts throughout the sea floor and rapid horizontal displacement of continents. Upwelling magma jettisoned steam into the atmosphere causing intense global rain. Rapid emplacement of isostatically lighter mantle material raised the level of the ocean floor, displacing ocean water onto the continents. When virtually all the pre-Flood oceanic floor had been replaced with new, less-dense, less-subductable, oceanic crust, catastrophic plate motion stopped. Subsequent cooling increased the density of the new ocean floor, producing deeper ocean basins and a reservoir for post-Flood oceans.

 

[Tomk80]

Journalism will tell you there are two sides to every story. Science tells you that not all explanations for a phenomenon have the same amount of validity. Scientific validity is proportionate to the evidence which supports a theory...

I continue to be amazed by the willingness of creationists to adopt a post-modernist viewpoint.