What's the point? Evolution...

stevendrake

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Evolution...? Huh, I watch the educational channels constantly. Ever notice how they generally speak as though evolution is "Fact" and it is (in actuality) a theory. In my reading I have little in my library. One I have thoroughly enjoyed has been "The case for faith". Just the incomprehesable numbers of the odds against evolution is just awesome. Just the whole argument "If there is no God, how do you explain..." is (in my opinion) a great tool. I don't need the book for my faith but it makes great points pertaining to likelihoods. You know, my favorite book is the bible but from the science perspective I am so proud and in awe of how great our God truly is. The sheer omniciance and creativity of our God is so, mmm, inspiring. To say the least. Any suggestion for literature along the same lines? I am not a degree holder. Just a musician gone Christian with an interest in learning more about how awesome God really is in his creative side.


God Bless
 
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Nathan45

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Welcome to the crevo forum.

If you expected to find much agreement on this board you probably came to the wrong place, something like 90% of the people here believe evolution. Also it's a debate forum.

But welcome anyway :wave:

As for your post, Evolution is treated as a fact by the scienfic and educational community because it is a fact.

It is also a theory. And it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Also, when you see long odds from creationist sources about the probability of evolution, do you ever wonder where they get these statistics from?

Because people often find the theory of evolution offensive, there is a very large market for psuedoscientifc books which attempt to discredit evolution. These books are not based on fact, they're simply someone lying to you to make a buck.

It is also not true that evolution implies atheism, the majority of people in america who believe in evolution are christians.
 
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flatworm

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Ever notice how they generally speak as though evolution is "Fact" and it is (in actuality) a theory.

It is a theory on par with the germ theory of disease, the atomic theory, and the theory of gravity. In fact, it is probably the most evidentially supported theory in the history of science.

Just the incomprehesable numbers of the odds against evolution is just awesome.

Given a population of imperfect replicators in an environment with limited resources, the probability of evolution is exactly unity.

Just the whole argument "If there is no God, how do you explain..." is (in my opinion) a great tool.

It's actually a fallacy known as "The God of the Gaps", a special case of the Argument from Ignorance. It turns your God into a synonym for ignorance, and turns the advancement of human knowledge into an enemy of your faith. This is the same argument that used to be used regarding the origin of lightning, recovery from injury and disease, earthquakes, embryonic development, etc. It was invalid then and it remains invalid today.
 
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trivista

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Evolution...? Huh, I watch the educational channels constantly. Ever notice how they generally speak as though evolution is "Fact" and it is (in actuality) a theory. In my reading I have little in my library. One I have thoroughly enjoyed has been "The case for faith". Just the incomprehesable numbers of the odds against evolution is just awesome. Just the whole argument "If there is no God, how do you explain..." is (in my opinion) a great tool. I don't need the book for my faith but it makes great points pertaining to likelihoods. You know, my favorite book is the bible but from the science perspective I am so proud and in awe of how great our God truly is. The sheer omniciance and creativity of our God is so, mmm, inspiring. To say the least. Any suggestion for literature along the same lines? I am not a degree holder. Just a musician gone Christian with an interest in learning more about how awesome God really is in his creative side.


God Bless
"
In scientific usage, a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it can in everyday speech. A theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of natural or social phenomena. It originates from or is supported by experimental evidence (see scientific method). In this sense, a theory is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations, and is predictive, logical, and testable. In principle, scientific theories are always tentative, and subject to corrections or inclusion in a yet wider theory. Commonly, a large number of more specific hypotheses may be logically bound together by just one or two theories. As a rule for use of the term, theories tend to deal with much broader sets of universals than do hypotheses, which ordinarily deal with much more specific sets of phenomena or specific applications of a theory. In Mohr, 2008, the author argues that theory is espoused in a construct without pragmatic relevance when utilized through various sociological or philosophical schools of thought. Truth, in theory, then becomes relativistic depending on its framework. Mohr further argues that as a result of the dilution of what constitutes truth and emerging relativism in the field, that framework evaluation for the creation of theory is now obsolete.
Thus, as framed by Mohr (2008), it is commonly misunderstood that there are known truths that are superior to theories. If this is actually the case, then the seemingly "known truth" is actually a theory itself. One theory may be superior to another in terms of its approximation of truth, but both statements are theories. Scientific tests of the quality of a theory include its conformity to known facts and its ability to generate hypotheses with outcomes that would predict further testable facts."


From wikipedia.
 
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stevendrake

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Ok, theory is unproven. You prove that life created itself then. As I have stated, I have faith. Creation is theory. But... the numbers I read were by scientist who became Christian because the numbers were to great for evolution. We may adapt but I see no reason to believe that we just appeared.

By the way... Though I am Christian... I will say "Don't act like a punk". And I mean it in the nicest way possible. God Bless
 
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stevendrake

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It's actually a fallacy known as "The God of the Gaps", a special case of the Argument from Ignorance. It turns your God into a synonym for ignorance, and turns the advancement of human knowledge into an enemy of your faith. This is the same argument that used to be used regarding the origin of lightning, recovery from injury and disease, earthquakes, embryonic development, etc. It was invalid then and it remains invalid today.



How about the gaps in your faith then? Are you not working on the same priciple?
 
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stevendrake

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"turns the advancement of human knowledge into an enemy of your faith"

No, because I know I didn't come from poop throwing monkeys. LOL I was created in the image of God. With all the potential which that intails. You know more about theory and such. So what? I could probably smoke you on guitar. Hardly makes me any better or worse. Anyway, we got more knowledgeable. Not neccesarily smarter, friend.
 
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flatworm

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"turns the advancement of human knowledge into an enemy of your faith"


No, because I know I didn't come from poop throwing monkeys. LOL I was created in the image of God.


And thus, you contradict yourself before you even get started. Where is this hostility coming from? Why do you come in here spouting this but show no apparent problem with the Theory of Gravity or the Germ Theory of Disease? Obviously because you think the Theory of Evolution is filling in one of the holes in your knowledge where you've stashed your god.

What does it mean to be created in the image of God? Does God have an internal tail like you do? Does He have omnivorous dentition? Does He lack the ability to synthesize vitamin C? Is God, in other words, a bipedal ape?

With all the potential which that intails. You know more about theory and such. So what? I could probably smoke you on guitar.

The difference here, my friend, is that I don't go waltzing into groups of musicians and tell them there is no such thing as a guitar.
 
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stevendrake

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Also, there are many holes in evolution. On Discovery I happened on a documentary about this. To the effect of no basis for evolution. Like organs going from nonexistance to appearing and fully functional. How does a heart or brain sustain itself by itself? Given that evolution "evolves" and doesn't just appear?
 
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stevendrake

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I'm not hostil. I am having a conversation with you. Not a college debate so treat it as such. You may have more knowledge in areas but that matters little to me. Don't make yourself look snotty and childish looking down your nose. I'm not impressed. But I do want to be friendly. Lets keep it that way.
 
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stevendrake

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Tail... I doubt it. lol We are not as we were. Germs? Can we not see them? Can we not feel gravity? Where is the example of a plant with the begginings of a heart. All this time and suddenly no more evolution? I am in shock... haha
 
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flatworm

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Also, there are many holes in evolution. On Discovery I happened on a documentary about this. To the effect of no basis for evolution. Like organs going from nonexistance to appearing and fully functional. How does a heart or brain sustain itself by itself? Given that evolution "evolves" and doesn't just appear?

Really, what documentary was that?

I have no idea what you mean by hearts and brains sustaining themselves by themselves. Evolution does not pretend that organisms are assembled randomly from independently existing parts. We have examples in the animal kingdom showing hearts and brains at virtually every conceivable level of sophistication. I don't understand where you see the problem here.

Far from being without basis, evolution is accepted by virtually all biologists and the overwhelming majority of scientists. In fact, the only people who seem to object to it do so on religious grounds.
 
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InTheCloud

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I'm a Nat Geo/Discorvery/Animal Planet jiunkie myself.
Evolution might have some explaining to do, as any other SCIENTIFIC THEORY but the fact is that we have evolved, we are evolving and we will be evolving. Is a fact.
And there is nothing wrong with that. Evolution is the only way to explain the biological phenomena. So is here to stay.
 
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