CACTUSJACKmankin
Scientist
who found noah's ark? and who says there was a flood? cite your sources.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
What's the point? Evolution...
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CACTUSJACKmankin
Scientist
Why dont you cite scientific sources rather than meaningless religious stuff.
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atomweaver
Senior Member
Non-Christians are here, djgreene, because they were invited... From the C&E Forum guidelines at the top of this section;
You might also peruse the first item from that list...
LINK
True. It is the outright falsehoods stated about the theory of evolution which prove the OP's ignorance. Nitpicking spelling errors is counter-productive towards correcting that mistaken view...
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The Second Law of Thermodynamics Confirms Psalm 102:26 First, let us consider the science of thermodynamics: In Psalm 102:25,26, we read, "Of old hast Thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of Thy hands. They shall perish, but Thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt Thou change them, and they shall be changed."
In verse 25, we find, restated, the fact that God is the Creator of all that exists. Verse 26 then tells us something highly significant, not about the initial, created state of the universe, but about the present state of the universe. According to this Scripture, written three thousand years before the dawn of modern science, we learn that the universe is like a suit of clothes that is wearing out. In other words, the universe is running down, deteriorating, constantly becoming less and less orderly.
That is not what most people believed when this Scripture was recorded. According to human observations, the universe was unchangeable. The statement that the universe is constantly becoming more random, less orderly, is a scientifically testable statement. The fact that the universe, in its present state is deteriorating, has been fully verified by modern science. Everywhere we look, from the scale of the galaxies down to the scale of the atom, we find a universal, natural tendency of all systems to go from order to disorder; from complexity to simplicity. Thus, clusters of galaxies are dispersing as the galaxies move away from one another.
The rotation of the earth is slowing; the magnetic field of the earth is decaying. Erosion constantly wears down the features of the earth. Our bodies wear out; we die and decay to a pile of dust. Our houses, our machines wear out and are finally abandoned and replaced. Many atoms decay to simpler products, and it is even being postulated that sub-atomic particles, such as the proton, decay, though ever so slowly, into energy.
Each star, including our own sun, is constantly burning up billions of tons of fuel every second. Eventually, every star in the universe, unless God intervenes (which we are certain He will), will exhaust its fuel and become dark and cold. The universe would then be cold and dead, and, of course, all life would have ceased long before the last death throes of the universe. Even now, every so often a nova or supernova occurs, and a star very rapidly becomes less orderly, in a gigantic explosion.
This natural tendency towards disorder is so all-pervasive and unfailing that it has been formalized as a natural law - the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Isaac Asimov has stated it this way (Smithsonian Institute Journal, June 1970, p.6): "Another way of stating the second law then is: `The universe is constantly getting more disorderly!' Viewed that way, we can see the Second Law all about us. We have to work hard to straighten a room, but left to itself, it becomes a mess again very quickly and very easily. Even if we never enter it, it becomes dusty and musty. How difficult to maintain houses, and machinery, and our own bodies in perfect working order; how easy to let them deteriorate. In fact, all we have to do is nothing, and everything deteriorates, collapses, breaks down, wears out - all by itself - and that is what the Second Law is all about."
There is certainly no doubt, then, that modern scientific research has verified the truths expressed in Psalm 102:26. Many years of careful measurements by scientists, repeated many thousands of times, established beyond doubt the scientific truths expressed in that verse of Scripture.
The Universe Must Have Had a Beginning Furthermore, the fact that the universe is deteriorating establishes beyond doubt that it hasn't been here forever, because if it had, it would have run down a long time ago! This confirms another scientifically testable statement found in the very first verse of the Bible: "In the beginning God created...." This verse of Scripture states that the universe has not been here forever; that it had a beginning sometime in the past. Again, let us remember that this is not what most people believed when the Bible was written. They believed that the universe had been here forever, and would continue to be here forever. The Bible says, not so! The universe had a beginning - when God created it - and it is now running down. Thus, modern science has established the fact that what most people believed about the universe being eternal was wrong, and that the Biblical statements on the subject were precisely correct.
The Finished Creation Confirmed by the First Law of Thermodynamics If there is a second law of thermodynamics, there must be a first law, of course. Indeed there is, and this natural law confirms another scientifically testable statement found in the Bible. The First Law of Thermodynamics states that the total quantity of energy and matter in the universe is a constant. One form of energy may be converted into another, energy may be converted into matter, and matter may be converted into energy, but the total quantity always remains the same. You can't get something from nothing, and you can't take something and make nothing out of it.
The First Law of Thermodynamics, the most firmly established natural law in science, confirms the Biblical statement concerning a finished creation, as found in Genesis 2:1,2: "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made."
If it could be shown that somewhere in this universe matter or energy was coming into being from nothing, then this Biblical statement of a finished creation would be falsified. The opposite is true. It has been precisely verified. Once again, a Biblical statement has withstood scientific test.
In verse 25, we find, restated, the fact that God is the Creator of all that exists. Verse 26 then tells us something highly significant, not about the initial, created state of the universe, but about the present state of the universe. According to this Scripture, written three thousand years before the dawn of modern science, we learn that the universe is like a suit of clothes that is wearing out. In other words, the universe is running down, deteriorating, constantly becoming less and less orderly.
That is not what most people believed when this Scripture was recorded. According to human observations, the universe was unchangeable. The statement that the universe is constantly becoming more random, less orderly, is a scientifically testable statement. The fact that the universe, in its present state is deteriorating, has been fully verified by modern science. Everywhere we look, from the scale of the galaxies down to the scale of the atom, we find a universal, natural tendency of all systems to go from order to disorder; from complexity to simplicity. Thus, clusters of galaxies are dispersing as the galaxies move away from one another.
The rotation of the earth is slowing; the magnetic field of the earth is decaying. Erosion constantly wears down the features of the earth. Our bodies wear out; we die and decay to a pile of dust. Our houses, our machines wear out and are finally abandoned and replaced. Many atoms decay to simpler products, and it is even being postulated that sub-atomic particles, such as the proton, decay, though ever so slowly, into energy.
Each star, including our own sun, is constantly burning up billions of tons of fuel every second. Eventually, every star in the universe, unless God intervenes (which we are certain He will), will exhaust its fuel and become dark and cold. The universe would then be cold and dead, and, of course, all life would have ceased long before the last death throes of the universe. Even now, every so often a nova or supernova occurs, and a star very rapidly becomes less orderly, in a gigantic explosion.
This natural tendency towards disorder is so all-pervasive and unfailing that it has been formalized as a natural law - the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Isaac Asimov has stated it this way (Smithsonian Institute Journal, June 1970, p.6): "Another way of stating the second law then is: `The universe is constantly getting more disorderly!' Viewed that way, we can see the Second Law all about us. We have to work hard to straighten a room, but left to itself, it becomes a mess again very quickly and very easily. Even if we never enter it, it becomes dusty and musty. How difficult to maintain houses, and machinery, and our own bodies in perfect working order; how easy to let them deteriorate. In fact, all we have to do is nothing, and everything deteriorates, collapses, breaks down, wears out - all by itself - and that is what the Second Law is all about."
There is certainly no doubt, then, that modern scientific research has verified the truths expressed in Psalm 102:26. Many years of careful measurements by scientists, repeated many thousands of times, established beyond doubt the scientific truths expressed in that verse of Scripture.
The Universe Must Have Had a Beginning Furthermore, the fact that the universe is deteriorating establishes beyond doubt that it hasn't been here forever, because if it had, it would have run down a long time ago! This confirms another scientifically testable statement found in the very first verse of the Bible: "In the beginning God created...." This verse of Scripture states that the universe has not been here forever; that it had a beginning sometime in the past. Again, let us remember that this is not what most people believed when the Bible was written. They believed that the universe had been here forever, and would continue to be here forever. The Bible says, not so! The universe had a beginning - when God created it - and it is now running down. Thus, modern science has established the fact that what most people believed about the universe being eternal was wrong, and that the Biblical statements on the subject were precisely correct.
The Finished Creation Confirmed by the First Law of Thermodynamics If there is a second law of thermodynamics, there must be a first law, of course. Indeed there is, and this natural law confirms another scientifically testable statement found in the Bible. The First Law of Thermodynamics states that the total quantity of energy and matter in the universe is a constant. One form of energy may be converted into another, energy may be converted into matter, and matter may be converted into energy, but the total quantity always remains the same. You can't get something from nothing, and you can't take something and make nothing out of it.
The First Law of Thermodynamics, the most firmly established natural law in science, confirms the Biblical statement concerning a finished creation, as found in Genesis 2:1,2: "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made."
If it could be shown that somewhere in this universe matter or energy was coming into being from nothing, then this Biblical statement of a finished creation would be falsified. The opposite is true. It has been precisely verified. Once again, a Biblical statement has withstood scientific test.
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plindboe
Senior Member
djgreene, do you lack the ability to think for yourself? Can't you make some points of your own instead of copying and pasting from various sites that say stuff you like to hear? Why do you ignore people who actually take the time to respond to your copy/paste-job? Do you believe without question everything you find on the internet that says what you like to hear?
Peter
Peter
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Plant defies laws of genetic inheritance
Plant scientists at Purdue University have made a surprising discovery—a plant containing a template, or a master genetic blueprint, that can correct defective genes inherited from its parents.
What is shocking is that the discovery violates traditional laws of genetic inheritance by somehow acquiring not just the chance arrangement of DNA through the standard combination of parental genes but also a copy of earlier uncombined DNA sequences from its ancestors—something deemed impossible by biologists. Equally surprising is the fact that the correcting template or agent, whatever it is, is hidden and not represented in the plant's current DNA pattern.
"The finding implies that some organisms may contain a cryptic backup copy of their genome that bypasses the usual mechanisms of heredity," says New York Times science reporter Nicholas Wade. ". . . The discovery also raises interesting biological questions—including whether it gets in the way of evolution, which depends on mutations changing an organism rather than being put right by a backup system."He continues: "The finding poses a puzzle for evolutionary theory because it corrects mutations, which evolution depends on as generators of novelty [new features]" ("Startling Scientists, Plant Fixes Its Flawed Genes," March 23).
"If you take this mutant [plant] Arabidopsis, which has two copies of the altered gene," says Robert Pruitt, the discoverer of the phenomenon, "let it seed and then plant the seeds, 90 percent of the offspring will look like the parent, but 10 percent will look like the normal grandparents. Our genetic training tells us that's just not possible. This challenges everything we believe . . .
"It seems that these [mutant gene]-containing plants keep a cryptic copy of everything that was in the previous generation, even though it doesn't show up in the DNA, it's not in the chromosome. Some other type of gene sequence information that we don't really understand yet is modifying the inherited traits" (as quoted by Susan Steeves, "Plants Defy Mendel's Inheritance Laws, May Prompt Textbook Changes," Purdue News Services).
Scientists do not yet know how many living organisms contain this master backup copy, but the search is now on. Evolutionists will be hard pressed to explain how such a mechanism could have been created in a Darwinian step-by-step fashion and inherited not from parents, but from grandparents or distant ancestors
Plant scientists at Purdue University have made a surprising discovery—a plant containing a template, or a master genetic blueprint, that can correct defective genes inherited from its parents.
What is shocking is that the discovery violates traditional laws of genetic inheritance by somehow acquiring not just the chance arrangement of DNA through the standard combination of parental genes but also a copy of earlier uncombined DNA sequences from its ancestors—something deemed impossible by biologists. Equally surprising is the fact that the correcting template or agent, whatever it is, is hidden and not represented in the plant's current DNA pattern.
"The finding implies that some organisms may contain a cryptic backup copy of their genome that bypasses the usual mechanisms of heredity," says New York Times science reporter Nicholas Wade. ". . . The discovery also raises interesting biological questions—including whether it gets in the way of evolution, which depends on mutations changing an organism rather than being put right by a backup system."He continues: "The finding poses a puzzle for evolutionary theory because it corrects mutations, which evolution depends on as generators of novelty [new features]" ("Startling Scientists, Plant Fixes Its Flawed Genes," March 23).
"If you take this mutant [plant] Arabidopsis, which has two copies of the altered gene," says Robert Pruitt, the discoverer of the phenomenon, "let it seed and then plant the seeds, 90 percent of the offspring will look like the parent, but 10 percent will look like the normal grandparents. Our genetic training tells us that's just not possible. This challenges everything we believe . . .
"It seems that these [mutant gene]-containing plants keep a cryptic copy of everything that was in the previous generation, even though it doesn't show up in the DNA, it's not in the chromosome. Some other type of gene sequence information that we don't really understand yet is modifying the inherited traits" (as quoted by Susan Steeves, "Plants Defy Mendel's Inheritance Laws, May Prompt Textbook Changes," Purdue News Services).
Scientists do not yet know how many living organisms contain this master backup copy, but the search is now on. Evolutionists will be hard pressed to explain how such a mechanism could have been created in a Darwinian step-by-step fashion and inherited not from parents, but from grandparents or distant ancestors
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If I would take one of your posts and comment on it, would you actually respond to the points I raised. I mean, actually respond in your own words, giving the impression that you thought through the answer I gave and the stuff you typed yourself?
Or am I just going to get more incoherent and unrelated cut-and-paste jobs?
If you promise the former, I might be persuaded to actually respond. Otherwise, what's the point?
Or am I just going to get more incoherent and unrelated cut-and-paste jobs?
If you promise the former, I might be persuaded to actually respond. Otherwise, what's the point?
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MrGoodBytes
Seeker for life, probably
djgreene, why don't you pick one of the topics from the sites you pasted and start a new thread?
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Ok when this thread was started, everyone said I needed evidence to back up what I was saying, so Im giving you evidence to show my case, by a scientific view. And now your complaining about it. I gave you evidence what more do you want?
I"ve giving my opinion, and I've gave you evidence.
I"ve giving my opinion, and I've gave you evidence.
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Ok then lets start with the flood questions. about the water being higher than the mountains.
Noah's flood did not cover the entire Earth nor all the mountains of the day. Further, they claim that Noah and the animals floated on a shallow, temporary inland sea caused by the flood, somehow covering only the Mesopotamian region. Thus, they must claim that the Earth's entire human population was limited to this area, or that not all humans were killed in the flood.
Noah's flood did not cover the entire Earth nor all the mountains of the day. Further, they claim that Noah and the animals floated on a shallow, temporary inland sea caused by the flood, somehow covering only the Mesopotamian region. Thus, they must claim that the Earth's entire human population was limited to this area, or that not all humans were killed in the flood.
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