What's so bad about the Book of Mormon?

[A New Dawn]

So what you're saying is that if something very spiritual in nature happens and that happens with lots witnesses, having only a few writings decades later makes that event suspecious?

Very interesting.

Yes, especially when it supposedly happens to thousands of people. Considering that when it happened earlier in the LDS church history, there were numerous accounts about it, some recorded almost instantly. For a church that prided itself on it's spiritualness and visions, that there was no record of the event leads to great suspiciousness.

 

[mmksparbud]

"In accord with the revelations given to the Prophet Joseph Smith, we teach that the Garden of Eden was on the American continent located where the city of Zion, or the New Jerusalem will be built. When Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden, they eventually dwelt at a place called Adam-ondi-Ahman, situated in what is now Daviess County, Missouri" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 3:74).

This is for real?!!! Garden of Eden and Noah's ark--here, on this continent--Atlantic coast--Well, there are people here who believe in a flat earth. We are free to believe whatever we want. And we are free to color our hair purple with pink and blue streaks, and pierce our ears for 8 earrings, pierce noses and other body parts, people have total body tattoos, and have even split their tongues like a serpents, now---I certainly hope that whomsoever does these things expects to get stared at, even laughed at. It may not be nice to laugh, however, I would think no one would expect to blend in. I've had my share of people laughing at me for my believes, we are considered strange. When I came back to God my friends were shocked--"You don't REALLY believe there was a real flood do you???!!"--snicker, snicker--yes, I do!--heads would drop and slowly shake in disbelieve--if you're going to believe in something that those around you do not, you'd best be prepared for a little derision without getting offended------I give up---my stepdaughter and I will not be seeing eye to eye on much. Maybe I should stop finding out any more----I was blissfully ignorant and maybe should have stayed that way!!

 

[Kristin E]

I just don't get it. I can show you point for point that the doctrine of the Book of Mormon is the same as in the Bible. It is very clear that salvation comes throught the work of Jesus Christ. The BoM says there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved. It also makes it clear that Jesus is God, even that it was through the power of Jesus that all things were created, meaning that Jesus was not a created being. I know the arguments against the BoM, but they all seem to be contrived and/or straw men. I love the Lord Jesus Christ, and I love the Book of Mormon. I am saved through the atoning work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Everything I believe outside of that are non-salvation issues. Unless you are saying that a wrong belief can negate salvation I don't understand how you can say that a belief in the BoM can negate salvation.

I've read some of the BoM, so I can't be fooled to believe that it is the same, sorry...
Do they believe in Jesus? Yes and NO. Mormons are polytheistic plain and simple, they believe their "god" is a man who had a father, and that man had a father and so forth.
In fact I will go as far as to say this which is the truth, mormons also believe that if they are good enough, when they die they too can become a god.
Mormonism is nothing but a cult, a cult I would never ever join, they are essentially in the same league as muslims in the fact that their paradise is popping out "spirit babies" on the star KOBA, KOLOB whatever...

How is any of that even remotely the same doctrine that the Bible teaches? It's not. We Christians accept the Holy Trinity, we do NOT accept false doctrine that god is parading around having true sexual relations with a goddesses who pops out spirit babies.
Also Mormons believe that Jesus had three wives, Mary umm eww his mom? , Mary Magdelene, and Martha... so not true. Mormons also teach that Jesus had kids with these wives... blasphemy.

Joseph Smith is THEIR god! The dude was literally a 33rd degree mason, he wanted to be god so he made up a fake religion and told a bunch of folks that "god" gave him two golden tablets that contained the BoM or whatever... Has anyone ever seen these alleged "gold tablets"? Nope, and they never will. Why? Because it's fakery.

I hate to say this, but Mormons do NOT look to Jesus for salvation period... They essentially believe the flesh god had two sons, Jesus and Lucifer, yes they literally believe Jesus is Lucifers brother EWW! Anyway Jesus and Lucifer had this feud over who would be sent to "redeem" the world and Jesus won.
Ultimately Jesus did die, but Mormons say His death was not enough that they still have to do good works to ascend the ranks of the 3 heavenly tiers "degrees of glory" which are - celestial, terrestrial, and telestial... Celestial being the highest.

They believe that their "god" had sexual relations with Mary on earth to birth this Jesus, ummm that's not what our Bible says...

I could go on and on with more proof why Mormonism is false and why it does not match the Bible.

 

[Ironhold]

None who were there, including the people writing the accounts of the conference, at the time, said anything of that nature took place.

I literally said just a few pages back that one of my ancestors was there at the time and was one of the witnesses.

 

[Kristin E]

Everyone is a spirit child of God.

This includes Jesus, Satan, and all of us.

Most critics of the church make it a point to deliberately skew this concept by removing the middle for the sake of shock value.

No the Bible teaches differently... God created the devil, but the devil is not His spirit baby... ALSO may I add God said in the Bible that those who choose Him do belong to Him, but those who choose the devil belong to the devil and are the devils children. - John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

What you call a "skew" is not a skew of the truth, but to be honest the LDS try their best to hide the truth... Nobody has to add shock value, the cultism is shocking enough.

 

[Kristin E]

Same as the bible, read 1 and 2do chapters of book of Job.

That's not what that verse means, then again the devil knows the bible hes quoted it many times even to Jesus.

 

[Ironhold]

In fact I will go as far as to say this which is the truth, mormons also believe that if they are good enough, when they die they too can become a god.

Not in the sense you seem to be thinking.

Mormonism is nothing but a cult, a cult I would never ever join, they are essentially in the same league as muslims in the fact that their paradise is popping out "spirit babies" on the star KOBA, KOLOB whatever...

If you can't even get the name right, then why should anyone believe that you've actually done your research on any other point?

And the whole "spirit children" thing is something that critics of the church place more prominence on then actual members. Most members don't even think about it.

I hate to say this, but Mormons do NOT look to Jesus for salvation period... They essentially believe the flesh god had two sons, Jesus and Lucifer, yes they literally believe Jesus is Lucifers brother EWW! Anyway Jesus and Lucifer had this feud over who would be sent to "redeem" the world and Jesus won.

This is yet another place in which you've failed to do adequate research.

The actual theology is that everyone who has ever existed is the spirit child of God, with Jesus and Satan being our older brothers.

Most critics deliberately distort this for the sake of shock value.

Ultimately Jesus did die, but Mormons say His death was not enough that they still have to do good works to ascend the ranks of the 3 heavenly tiers "degrees of glory" which are - celestial, terrestrial, and telestial... Celestial being the highest.

No, the church believes what James wrote in his epistle about faith and works needing to go hand-in-hand.

They believe that their "god" had sexual relations with Mary on earth to birth this Jesus,

Brigham Young only said that what took place happened via "natural means".

It's the critics of the church who argue that sex took place.

 

[Kristin E]

Not in the sense you seem to be thinking.



If you can't even get the name right, then why should anyone believe that you've actually done your research on any other point?

And the whole "spirit children" thing is something that critics of the church place more prominence on then actual members. Most members don't even think about it.



This is yet another place in which you've failed to do adequate research.

The actual theology is that everyone who has ever existed is the spirit child of God, with Jesus and Satan being our older brothers.

Most critics deliberately distort this for the sake of shock value.



No, the church believes what James wrote in his epistle about faith and works needing to go hand-in-hand.



Brigham Young only said that what took place happened via "natural means".

It's the critics of the church who argue that sex took place.

Because I was joking?? Koba is from planet of the apes, so it was a joke?... Again what you just replied does not NOR will it ever match up with the Word of God, nice try though.

 

[Ironhold]

Because I was joking?? Koba is from planet of the apes, so it was a joke?... Again what you just replied does not NOR will it ever match up with the Word of God, nice try though.

If that was a joke, then so is virtually all of the Christian counter-cult material dealing with the church I've seen over the past 15 years.

Both are that poorly researched.

 

[Kristin E]

If that was a joke, then so is virtually all of the Christian counter-cult material dealing with the church I've seen over the past 15 years.

Both are that poorly researched.

Ever heard of Kent Hovind? He's heard a lot about mormonism, and hes blowed their doctrine out of the water.

 

[Ironhold]

Ever heard of Kent Hovind? He's heard a lot about mormonism, and hes blowed their doctrine out of the water.

Hovind?

I can't think of anyone outside of a narrow sliver of Evangelical Christianity who takes him seriously.

You'll seriously need a better source than him, but you're welcome to try and post some of his material anyway.

 

[TasteForTruth]

Nobody that was there wrote anything. That is the point. The earliest "remembrances" were 20 years later, and were all sparked by a comment of one person. And that one person's comments magically sparked remembrances by people who weren't even there. How do you separate the ones who were there from the ones who weren't?

I separate the two as carefully as I can, admitting up front that the best I can do many times is an educated guess, and that I depend heavily on others' research, and that others' research is thorough and as objective as possible. All that said, it is clear to me that persons who were there witnessed something that they felt was a divine manifestation for their benefit. Whether or not thousands of persons witnessed it is immaterial to the fact that some did. When they wrote or spoke about it is also not material, so long as they did not merely adopt the idea, as you pointed out. Suffice it to say that I read the blog post you linked, which really said nothing—just passed along an actual researcher's conclusions. And I read the lengthy PDF linked in the blog post, which did a poor job of drawing conclusions on the basis of its own presented facts. Things its author concluded were clear were, in fact, interpolations. Some of them were so bad they were humorous.

At any rate, we needn't beat this horse. I'm pretty certain that you will not be persuaded that a single soul there witnessed anything close to a transfiguration, and without additional testimony or research that gives me cause, I will not be persuaded to dismiss those testimonies that I have thus far, judged to be trustworthy. I'm willing to agree to disagree if you are.

 

[smaneck]

Ever heard of Kent Hovind? He's heard a lot about mormonism, and hes blowed their doctrine out of the water.

Yeah, he's a criminal who doesn't think Jesus meant what he said when he said, "Render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasars." He is also a Young Earth Creationists into all of these weird conspiracy theories. The guys a crackpot.

 

[Niblo]

[QUOTE="Kristin E, they are essentially in the same league as muslims in the fact that their paradise is popping out "spirit babies" on the star KOBA, KOLOB [/QUOTE]

A point of clarification:

Muslims do not believe that paradise is on some distant star (or planet for that matter).......with or without the popping babies.

Have a great day.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

So what you're saying is that if something very spiritual in nature happens and that happens with lots witnesses, having only a few writings decades later makes that event suspecious?

Very interesting.

I’m guessing that you just got the evidence that disproves the whole thing then, huh? Good job LoAmmi…

 

[Aryeh Jay]

That's not what that verse means, then again the devil knows the bible hes quoted it many times even to Jesus.

There seems to be a lot of Bible quoting going here as well.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

[QUOTE="Kristin E, they are essentially in the same league as muslims in the fact that their paradise is popping out "spirit babies" on the star KOBA, KOLOB

A point of clarification:

Muslims do not believe that paradise is on some distant star (or planet for that matter).......with or without the popping babies.

Have a great day.[/QUOTE]

Apparently you haven’t risen to the level that revels that information yet.

 

[Kristin E]

A point of clarification:

Muslims do not believe that paradise is on some distant star (or planet for that matter).......with or without the popping babies.

Have a great day.

Apparently you haven’t risen to the level that revels that information yet.

BUT they believe god is some pervert who had sex with Mary, AND they teach convert or die...

 

[Aryeh Jay]

BUT they believe god is some pervert who had sex with Mary, AND they teach convert or die...

Who exactly is the Father of Jesus?

 

[Kristin E]

Yeah, he's a criminal who doesn't think Jesus meant what he said when he said, "Render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasars." He is also a Young Earth Creationists into all of these weird conspiracy theories. The guys a crackpot.

He's far from the criminal the government made him out to be...

There is FAR more evidence for a young heart than an old earth, so sorry pal.

So and your point is??