What Would YOU Do If . . .?

[Polycarp_fan]

I was a Christian. Had no doubt in my mind up until the day the cracks started to form. I'm pretty sure I understand it fully, I just don't believe it anymore.

I was an Atheist. Had no care about anything other people believed in until the cracks in the world and its ways started getting to big to ignore.

I believe it fully. Both things now.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

I would rather think that participating in sexual behavior puts your health at risk. Condoms aren't 100%.

Mental health is more fragile and easier to destroy, sex can be a health risk regardless of orientation so that is not a logical response.

 

[WatersMoon110]

The interpretations that it is okay to have gay sex are biased on behalf of gay people. I have no reason to have a bias when I read the verses and when I read them, I see clearly that it is wrong.

Umm...I didn't know of any interpretations that go that far. I know that there are people, like myself, who don't agree that Paul is condemning homosexuality as we understand it today. But I certainly wouldn't claim that the Bible condones gay sex. Rather I feel that there is no valid ethical theory that condemns gay sex - so consenting adults should be free to do so if they want to.

Yes, 100%.

You said when it conflicts with your view (opinion) of reality that you assume the Bible is wrong. I assume that I am wrong and it is right.

Huh.

I don't mean when it conflicts with my opinions. I mean when I see a certain thing in reality - like that rabbits do not chew cud - and see that the Bible is incorrect, I go with reality. Or like people who believe that the (second) story of creation told in Genesis is literally what happened - I go with what Science has figured out (so far), because it comes from viewing reality directly.

Of course, I can only observe reality through my senses, and it filters through my brain - which means that everyone lives in their own personal reality, with no real clue if what other people view matches up exactly or not. So I can't speak about reality objectively - since it is always subjective - I can only talk about reality as I personally experience it.

I see the Bible mainly as a book of parables. Useful stories, probably based on actual accounts originally - passed down through oral tradition, and then eventually written down (then translated and reinterpreted multiple times) - which can teach important lessons. Mainly I focus on the Gospels, particularly the words attributed to Jesus, the Christ. I think that His teachings are some of the most influential words I have ever read, personally. And I am trying very hard to learn to love others for who they are - more difficult at some times than at others.

 

[b&wpac4]

I was an Atheist. Had no care about anything other people believed in until the cracks in the world and its ways started getting to big to ignore.

I believe it fully. Both things now.

The cracks in the world are called tectonic plates.

 

[corvus_corax]

I'm not as sweet as she is.

Apparently not.
And not as loving either

I realize that dealing with reprobate minds gets a little dirty. And I'm not afraid of any anti Christian on an internet debate site. Their positions are based squarely on hysterical emotionalism in just about every case.

You mean cases such as morality, evolution, cosmology, etc?

It's all about spreading licentiousness, hedonism and "do as thou wilteth . . ." through and through.

Bull ____
Not all of us are in favor of "do as thou wilt" as and end point.
Therefore your generalizations fail.

The last thing you want is my opinion of what you think, how and why. And the value attached to your views is even darker.

Actually, considereing the fact that this is a debate forum, that's exactly what I want.
Don't let your hubris of supremacy make you think I'm to weak to take it.

Posting links is the softer approach to proving your positions for what they are.

Posting links with no argument on your part is the softer approach....
It's the weak approach
Have fun with that

JUST an opinion. And little else.

If you are still rambling on about your lies regarding evolution, I have to respect what the Mod said.
Otherwise we can address YOUR opinion as well.

I'm a Christian pal, you anti's get hysterical when you have to here a perspective that opposes yours. It is not my fault your mind is conditioned to accept what it does, and I certainly don't have to submit to your positions.

I'm a non-Christian theist pal, and you Christians get hysterical when you have to hear a perspective the opposes yours. It is not my fault your mind is conditioned to accept what it doesw, and I certainly don't have to submit to your positions.

See, it works both ways.
You want to be condescending?
Really?
I can be JUST as condescending.
The only difference is, you should NOT be.
Witness how Jesus acted towards the tax payers, the harlots.
Yes, he corrected them, but he was NOT condescending to them, he PROTECTED them (from the religious "right" of the time) and was compassionate to them.
On these forums, you do not "protect", you are not "compassionate".
You accuse, accuse, accuse and attack.
WWJD ?

 

[Aeris]

Exactly! Thank you!

I'm not sure how I made it through my life without offing myself. My father would literally do it for me if I came around to his house these days. He's one of those loving Christian parents...

It always makes me sad to hear that someone has been kicked out for being gay. I just cant understand what would make a parent do something so extreme for something that has no more negative effects on others than heterosexuality. It always reminds me of the quote that goes something like: good people do good things, evil people do evil things, but for good people to do evil things, that takes religion (not sure on exact wording)

 

[roflcopter101]

You said when it conflicts with your view (opinion) of reality that you assume the Bible is wrong. I assume that I am wrong and it is right.

Well, let me explain to you my view of Buddhism.
I am a Buddhist because it's so loose.
I take Buddhism as kind of a set of suggestions as to what I should do. It says "Don't kill, be nice to your neighbors," etc. and I go "OK, that sounds logical." But when it says "CUT OFF ALL WORLDLY TIES" or "GIVE UP MONEY", I don't follow it.
And I think that's a good way to view the bible. It has some good advice, such as "Don't kill your neighbor" or "Treat others as you would yourself" but when it starts going "Don't eat shrimp or lobsters" and "Genocide is kewl" then a filter should be applied.

 

[angellica]

Umm...I didn't know of any interpretations that go that far. I know that there are people, like myself, who don't agree that Paul is condemning homosexuality as we understand it today. But I certainly wouldn't claim that the Bible condones gay sex. Rather I feel that there is no valid ethical theory that condemns gay sex - so consenting adults should be free to do so if they want to.

Huh.

I don't mean when it conflicts with my opinions. I mean when I see a certain thing in reality - like that rabbits do not chew cud - and see that the Bible is incorrect, I go with reality. Or like people who believe that the (second) story of creation told in Genesis is literally what happened - I go with what Science has figured out (so far), because it comes from viewing reality directly.

Of course, I can only observe reality through my senses, and it filters through my brain - which means that everyone lives in their own personal reality, with no real clue if what other people view matches up exactly or not. So I can't speak about reality objectively - since it is always subjective - I can only talk about reality as I personally experience it.

I see the Bible mainly as a book of parables. Useful stories, probably based on actual accounts originally - passed down through oral tradition, and then eventually written down (then translated and reinterpreted multiple times) - which can teach important lessons. Mainly I focus on the Gospels, particularly the words attributed to Jesus, the Christ. I think that His teachings are some of the most influential words I have ever read, personally. And I am trying very hard to learn to love others for who they are - more difficult at some times than at others.

The Bible doesn't condone homosexual sex, it condemns it and it gives plenty of advice for heterosexual sex (married, with one of the opposite sex, being faithful, etc.) but none on homosexual sex? I am only left to deduce that it was not mentioned because it was, in fact, condemned by God and would give no guidelines because it is wrong to do any type of homosexual activity (such as marriage). If homosexual marriage was okay, there would be guidelines for it as well as hetero marriage in the Bible.

Some of the scientific stuff I am a bit muddy about, I admit, because I have not studied it for quite some time. But I thought you meant reality as in social situations and things like that, in which I go with the Bible.

 

[angellica]

Well, let me explain to you my view of Buddhism.
I am a Buddhist because it's so loose.
I take Buddhism as kind of a set of suggestions as to what I should do. It says "Don't kill, be nice to your neighbors," etc. and I go "OK, that sounds logical." But when it says "CUT OFF ALL WORLDLY TIES" or "GIVE UP MONEY", I don't follow it.
And I think that's a good way to view the bible. It has some good advice, such as "Don't kill your neighbor" or "Treat others as you would yourself" but when it starts going "Don't eat shrimp or lobsters" and "Genocide is kewl" then a filter should be applied.

It does not say cut off all worldly ties, it says to abstain from the practices of the world that are evil, but to interact with and witness to the sinners. It does not say give up money. He could ask us to give 65% of our earnings to the church, but He does not. He asks for 10%. I have no problem with that. And choosing Buddhism because it's loose, does that mean because it's comfortable? Being a Christian isn't always easy, but the struggle makes it worth that much more.

 

[angellica]

Watch the comments to this.

The world and its ways. You can see why Peter and the other Disciples had to write what they did.

Yes I am seeing that apparently the dangers of sex are small in comparison with the dangers of Christian counseling.

 

[b&wpac4]

It does not say cut off all worldly ties, it says to abstain from the practices of the world that are evil, but to interact with and witness to the sinners. It does not say give up money. He could ask us to give 65% of our earnings to the church, but He does not. He asks for 10%. I have no problem with that. And choosing Buddhism because it's loose, does that mean because it's comfortable? Being a Christian isn't always easy, but the struggle makes it worth that much more.

Tithing was for the Jews, as far as I've ever been able to tell. Jesus never asked for any percentage of your money.

 

[roflcopter101]

It does not say cut off all worldly ties, it says to abstain from the practices of the world that are evil, but to interact with and witness to the sinners. It does not say give up money.

Nah, but the original Buddha's example implies it.
And I think you fail to see the point:
I am arguing that some facets of the bible should be ignored to fit practicality (Again, the shellfish) and that the bible is not the awesomest infallible book for everything.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Apparently not.
And not as loving either

I consider being truthful as great love.

You mean cases such as morality, evolution, cosmology, etc?

Absolute hysteria. Oppose the relativism of the progressive worldview and yes, without doubt you guys get emotionally hysterical.

Bull ____
Not all of us are in favor of "do as thou wilt" as and end point.
Therefore your generalizations fail.

cause and effect. Just applying science and labeling things correctly.

Actually, considereing the fact that this is a debate forum, that's exactly what I want.
Don't let your hubris of supremacy make you think I'm to weak to take it.

What a joke. "Hubris of supremacy?" You anti's say your right, that's it. You Christians aree idiots that won't think. Even though all of your worldview has its origins from nothing causing everything. It's not hubris, I possess, it's contempt for those that destroy lives and think up excuses to get out of culpability.

Posting links with no argument on your part is the softer approach....
It's the weak approach
Have fun with that

Blah, blah, blah.

If you are still rambling on about your lies regarding evolution, I have to respect what the Mod said.
Otherwise we can address YOUR opinion as well.

The anger, vitriol and insults, the Mods deal with comes from your side pal.

I'm a non-Christian theist pal, and you Christians get hysterical when you have to hear a perspective the opposes yours.

That's an urban legend. It's time has come and gone. The horrors of society can be laid squarely at your feet and on your hands.

It is not my fault your mind is conditioned to accept what it doesw, and I certainly don't have to submit to your positions.

Then quit taxing me to pay for the consequences of your celebration of immorality.

See, it works both ways.

Obviously it doesn't. You guys want Christians to take the bashing you mete out. Those days are long gone too.

You want to be condescending?

I truly enjoy it.

Really?
I can be JUST as condescending.

The rote you offer is so common it is laughable more than anything else.

The only difference is, you should NOT be.
Witness how Jesus acted towards the tax payers, the harlots.

Yes. He said to treat liars and the immoral unrepnatant person like you would pagans and tax collectors.

Yes, he corrected them, but he was NOT condescending to them, he PROTECTED them (from the religious "right" of the time) and was compassionate to them.

Political appointees are more akin to Liberal political organizations than "right-wing" religious positions.

On these forums, you do not "protect", you are not "compassionate".
You accuse, accuse, accuse and attack.
WWJD ?

I show what He did. With no altering of scripture. You guys don't like that either.

And "me" attack?

No matter if I say I love you or not, bottom line is you have to give up the sinful life you celebrate and repent. I'm not here trying to convert those that attack my brothers and sisters in Christ. I am here to show your positions for what they are.

Bullies don't like take a punch. I've seen that proven many, many, many times. Notice I don't run away and hide from them?

 

[WatersMoon110]

The Bible doesn't condone homosexual sex, it condemns it and it gives plenty of advice for heterosexual sex (married, with one of the opposite sex, being faithful, etc.) but none on homosexual sex? I am only left to deduce that it was not mentioned because it was, in fact, condemned by God and would give no guidelines because it is wrong to do any type of homosexual activity (such as marriage). If homosexual marriage was okay, there would be guidelines for it as well as hetero marriage in the Bible.

I still disagree that the Bible condemns homosexuality as we know it today. But, then, I also think that OT marriage law in whole doesn't apply to use either. I do agree with Jesus (in Mark) when He says that people shouldn't divorce and remarry - but I really only apply that to myself, and don't personally hold others to my standard. I don't see it as my place to judge - I see it as my place to try and learn to love others for who they are, not who I might want them to be.

Some of the scientific stuff I am a bit muddy about, I admit, because I have not studied it for quite some time. But I thought you meant reality as in social situations and things like that, in which I go with the Bible.

Sorry, I should have been more clear to begin with. In social situations I also try (and sometimes fail) to go with Biblical teachings as well: like not judging others and trying to love everyone as they are.

 

[corvus_corax]

TIf homosexual marriage was okay, there would be guidelines for it as well as hetero marriage in the Bible.

There ARE guidelines regarding sex during female menstruation. It's a big bad no-no.
My wife and I have had sex (several times over the past 14 years) while she is mestruating.
Are we living a sinful lifestyle?
I mean really the "guidelines" are right there in the bible, yes?
I also wear cotton/poly fabrics.
That's a bad thing.
That is in fact spelled out in the bible.

Guess my dad shoulda kicked me out for wearing cotton/poly blends.
Or for fantasizing about having sex with girls my age.
Or for masturbating on a fairly regular basis (based on heterosexual male fantasies)
Or for any other "sinful lifestyle"



Would you do that angellica? Would you kick out a teenage son of yours for the above listed "sinful lifestyles?

Would you?
Seriously?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Yes I am seeing that apparently the dangers of sex are small in comparison with the dangers of Christian counseling.

Christian counseling does not garner the listener an STD or death by abortion or a gang shooting.

Secular counseling on the other hand has been proven as deadly as the plague. Actually millions of times more.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Yes I am seeing that apparently the dangers of sex are small in comparison with the dangers of Christian counseling.

I'm going to start out by saying that I'm sure there are plenty of good counselors who are Christian, and many good minsters who counsel people, and probably many Christian counseling centers that are very good.

But I have a very low opinion of Christian counseling because of an experience that happened to one of my friends. She was sexually abused by her uncle, from as young as she can remember to 8, when she told her parents. Her mother accused her of lying, and took her to a Christian counselor (though my friend was and is not a Christian, and her mother wasn't very religious) who told her to stop lying and honor her parents. So I have a very negative view of Christian counseling - even though I am sure it has benefited some others.

 

[b&wpac4]

Christian counseling does not garner the listener an STD or death by abortion or a gang shooting.

Secular counseling on the other hand has been proven as deadly as the plague. Actually millions of times more.

Proven? PROVEN? Where do you get this stuff? You just come up with random stuff to say, don't you?

Fine, fine, show me where it's been PROVEN to be MORE DEADLY than the Plague (I assume you mean the black death, which killed a huge percentage of the population)

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Proven? PROVEN? Where do you get this stuff? You just come up with random stuff to say, don't you?

Fine, fine, show me where it's been PROVEN to be MORE DEADLY than the Plague (I assume you mean the black death, which killed a huge percentage of the population)

Pro abortion, pro promiscuity, pro anything goes except applying the word guilt to the patient/client.

My proof is in the juvenile halls, the prisons, the mental health facilities and the morgue. The hundreds of millions of dead unborn children don't have a place where they can be observed, but they are there none the less.

I'll call it the White Plague.

I'd go with rainbow plague, but that would garner typical hysteria from the usual suspects.

 

[b&wpac4]

Pro abortion, pro promiscuity, pro anything goes except applying the word guilt to the patient/client.

My proof is in the juvenile halls, the prisons, the mental health facilities and the morgue. The hundreds of millions of dead unborn children don't have a place where they can be observed, but they are there none the less.

I'll call it the White Plague.

I'd go with rainbow plague, but that would garner typical hysteria from the usual suspects.

Let me summarize:

"I DON'T HAVE PROOF BUT I WILL JUST SAY IT AND YOU ALL SHOULD BELIEVE ME BECAUSE I AM POLYCARP_FAN"

Sorry... don't believe you just because you said it.

How about a link?