What was reformed?

[Albion]

it is not a democracy! It is a kingdom!
Read Is 22 mt 16:18 Lk 1 jn 20 eph 2:20

P.S. Matthew 16:18 doesn't say anything about either a kingdom or a democracy.

 

[b4jesustoday]

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

 

[b4jesustoday]

Leave the Morman’s and jw’s out they are cult, the church does not revolve around truth, it is the truth! I am the way the truth and the life, Jesus and His church are one, He continues His ministry thru the church thru the apostles and their successors with the same mission power and authority!
It is His church!

John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be onefold, and one shepherd

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[Aussie Pete]

it is not a democracy! It is a kingdom!
Read Is 22 mt 16:18 Lk 1 jn 20 eph 2:20

Yes, it is the Kingdom of God and NOT of this world. Roman Catholicism is the world in religious garb. It has nothing to do with the Kingdom of God.

 

[Aussie Pete]

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Falsehood #1. Peter was not the first pope.

 

[Aussie Pete]

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Yes, ALL believers are priests. The clergy/laity divide is a man made construct. Error #2

 

[mlepfitjw]

Hebrews 4:
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[b4jesustoday]

All those who are members of Christ by faith and baptism are of the royal priesthood. Yes
But the priesthood of Jesus high priest and His ordained low priests are of the order of Melchizedek.
It is not a matter of equality? For in Christ all are one. But that of roles, just as husband and wife are equals but their roles are different husband the head of the household the wife is the heart, he provided with security, while the family gets its identity from Her and revolves around her, even Jesus and Joseph (mt 1:16) get their identity from Mary! Roles are different between the high priest, His apostles, their ordained priests and the laity!

 

[b4jesustoday]

The clergy/laity divide is a man made construct. Error #2

Really

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, (laity) but few are chosen. (priesthood)

 

[thecolorsblend]

You know of course ... but ... ok ... the reformation happened because after the people actually gained access to His word it was determined the catholic church was in error in some of their teachings ... one could say it was the authority of truths contained in His Word

Your post assumes vernacular Bible translations didn't exist before Luther's era. That's not true. But even if it was, yours would still be kind of an incomprehensible chain of logic.

Our Lord did not compile a book; He founded a Church.

 

[b4jesustoday]

No one has the right to read the Bible and decide on doctrine for himself or to start a church! matt 16:18 only Jesus founded the church on Peter and the apostles eph 2:20
Doctrine dogma or truth must be revealed by God!

 

[thecolorsblend]

.

 

[Aussie Pete]

No one has the right to read the Bible and decide on doctrine for himself or to start a church! matt 16:18 only Jesus founded the church on Peter and the apostles eph 2:20
Doctrine dogma or truth must be revealed by God!

Jesus is Head of the Church, not the pope, Peter or anyone else. Every born again Christian is a member of Christ's body. God appoints apostles, prophets, evangelists pastors and teachers. Every church is independent. Denominationalism is an abomination, but that's a result of human interpretation and egotistical leaders who can't bear the thought that they might be wrong. Lord Jesus is the Rock on which the church is built, not any man. Peter was a sinner. Peter was guilty of hypocrisy. Not much of a start for an infallible pope. He was married. Enforced celibacy is contrary to God's word and a mark of false teaching. (1 Timothy 4:3). Martin Luther found 95 reasons to condemn Roman Catholicism. Protestant churches still have a long way to go before they line up with God's word. But at least they are on track.

 

[b4jesustoday]

Until the 20th century most people were illiterate and books Bible were rare and expensive before the printing press a monk spent his whole life copying a Bible
Only in modern times are people able to read inexpensive scriptures. And make their own doctrines, I’m surprised anyone would still be Catholic!

 

[Aussie Pete]

The clergy/laity divide is a man made construct. Error #2

Really

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, (laity) but few are chosen. (priesthood)

False interpretation.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I'm the perfect person to answer this question. The reformers reformed from the Catholic church in the 16th century because of the practices of the pope and the general church at the time. Martin Luther and Calvin thought that the practices of the Catholic church at the time weren't biblical in origin so they "reformed" the church to be back to what it used to be before and back to what the church should have been. They were looking for unity in the Church and also for the church as a whole r to believe what they believed.

It's because of the actions of the Reformers that the church is back to "normal" today in fundamentalist christianity. Even Catholics have changed their core beliefs and doctrines to become the core of Christianity that Paul and the apostles started all those years ago.

A lot of Catholics today claim that we are not saved by our works but that we are saved by our faith + the sacraments. That's a drastic change to the 16th century church who at the time were advocating works salvation, were sleeping with their wives, and executed loads of people for treason. Yes the reformers did that too not down playing it. But in the fundamentalist church today we have freedom of Christian religion. No longer are Christians who believe something else than you put under fear of execution and coerced into believing what you believe. People across all denominations are generally accepted by the church. That's a massive step in the right direction and it was the actions of the Reformers that got things swinging.

Still not right. Sacraments do not save.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Until the 20th century most people were illiterate and books Bible were rare and expensive before the printing press a monk spent his whole life copying a Bible
Only in modern times are people able to read inexpensive scriptures. And make their own doctrines, I’m surprised anyone would still be Catholic!

A lot of people are religious by inclination. Catholicism appeals to them.

 

[Philip_B]

What was reformed?
What was the authority for the reformation? Or
Where does the Bible say to have a reformation?

What was sought to be reformed where things that contributed to what might be called errors and excesses of the medieval church.

The difficulty that seemed to have transpired in an evolutionary sense was and understanding of the Church as a Political entity. Things like the Papal authorisation of the Norman conquest of England, and the political intrigues of the early 16th century. I has been said before that if Popes had acted less like Princes, then Princes may have acted less like Popes.

There were a number of theological concerns that fed into the mix, including the sale of indulgences as fund raising for the new basilica in Rome, which seemed at least superficially a little like folk buying their way into heaven.

The leaders of the reformation looked for authority in the canon of the New and Old Testaments. There was a concern that a number of medieval doctrines and practices had appended themselves to the purity of the ancient and primitive church. The mandated use of Latin, and the withholding of the chalice from the laity where two clear examples of this.

The Bible calls each one of us to change, repent, to reform our own gaze and walk that we might be more like Jesus. Repent and believe the Gospel

Now of course we find ourselves in a new reality, and since Vatican II much has changed in the outward expression of the Catholic Church. It does pose the question, however, as to how Luther and the other reformers would have felt about the catholic church as we see it today. Would he have left (or perhaps how many of the 95 theses would have been nailed to the door).

We have all come a long way from the 16th Century, and I lament that many still want to paint others in ancient positions. We all need more grace, me included.

 

[Dave L]

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The reformers prefer Jesus over those who claim his authority without biblical warrant.

 

[Dave L]

Is our entire understanding based in this way that if history turns out to be wrong then all the beliefs associated with it may be wrong?

But you haven't proven it wrong.