What value is Homosexuality to society?

[marksman007]

Yet the bible was used to condemn them all

Evidence please

 

[marksman007]

None of which have anything to do with gays and lesbians

In addition, studies report that homosexual couples have significantly higher incidences of violent behavior which will be covered shortly. These studies are not surprising at all given what pathologists have stated regarding the commonness and brutality of homosexual murders.

Regarding studies regarding homosexual couples and violence, a recent study by the Canadian government regarding homosexual couples states that "violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples".[1]

According to the American College of Pediatricians who cite several studies violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples.[2]

The Journal of the Family Research Institute using data from the U.S. Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics and the Center for Disease Control concluded that "married men who are not separated are at least 25 times less apt to be domestically attacked than a homosexual male in an 'on-going relationship.' Even if we include all married and separated husbands, the risk of domestic violence in a male-male homosexual relationship is still at least 18 times greater." [5] Another study indicated that 83% of homosexuals report they have been emotionally abused by homosexual partners. [6]

 

[marksman007]

You go on about sin but you don’t seem to think lying about homosexuals is a sin at all…rather you seem to think presenting false and misleading information is somehow admirable?

Yes your majesty, but please realise I have no interest in anything you say...ever.

 

[marksman007]

None of which have anything to do with gays and lesbians

At a conference I ATTENDED, I sat in one of the seminars about homosexuals having sex with children. and the first person to SPEAK ( which meant that I heard what he said) was William Allen (a homosexual) who said that he had sex with over 2,000 boys.

Obviously someone was not too impressed as he was reported to the police and taken into custody. A few weeks later he hanged himself.

 

[marksman007]

You can also say that none of them are behavioral,

Can I? Thankyou for giving me permission.

 

[marksman007]

You really should check the context of what you quote before you quote it. Since when is homosexuality a violent crime?

Vernon J. Geberth, M.S., M.P.S. who is a former commander of Bronx homicide for the New York City Police Department stated in 1995 regarding homosexual murders that homosexual murders are relatively common and these murders may involve male victims murdered by other males or may involve female victims who are in some type of lesbian relationship and they are murdered by another female.[1] In 2005, Dr. Harnam Singh, Dr. Luv Sharma, and Dr. Dhattarwal reported in the Journal of Indian Academy of Forensic Medicine in regards to homosexuality and murders that homosexual murders are quite common and that these murders may involve both sexes either as victims or as assailants.[2]

According to the New York Times, Dr. William Eckert was a world-renowned authority in the field of pathology and he worked on major murder cases including the assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy and the Charles Manson murders.[3] Dr. Eckert founded the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology.[3] [4] According to Time magazine, Dr. Eckert was a pioneer who encouraged collaborative effort between law-enforcement and forensics teams.[4]

Dr. Eckert wrote regarding homosexual murders the following:
“ Equally high is the number of homicides, many probably related to transient attachments, which often lead to suspicion, jealousy, and murder. When murder does occur it is exceptionally brutal with an overkill appearance... Overkill, as it is seen in homosexual and lesbian murders, is certainly a form of sadistic crime. In these instances multiple stabbing and other brutal injuries...are common findings...[5]

Bernard Knight CBE, MD, BCh, MRCP, FRCPath, FHKCPath, DMJ (Path) was a Professor of Forensic Pathology in the University of Wales until he retired in 1996.[6] In 1993 he was made a Commander of the British Empire (CBE) for his services to forensic medicine.[6][7] Dr. Bernard Knight has been involved in many notorious murder cases, including Fred West and Rosemary West, Roberto Calvi (the Vatican banker), the child killer Mary Bell, and the Truscott case in Canada.[6] Dr. Pekka Saukko is Professor and Head of the Department of Forensic Medicine at the University of Turku in Finland.[7] Dr. Saukko is also the editor of Forensic Science International.[8] Doctors Knight and Saukko coauthored a pathology textbook entitled Knight's Forensic Pathology in 2004 which stated the following:

“ As with heterosexual offenses, the cause of death in fatal cases is almost always some form of general trauma, such as strangulation or head injuries. Homosexual activity, however, may be a parallel event; it is a fact that some of the most violent homicides seen by pathologists are among male homosexuals.[9]

The Encyclopedia of Serial Killers by Michael Newton reports the following regarding the issue of homosexuality and murders:
“ Homosexual slayers clearly have no monopoly on violence, but it is true that their crimes often display extremes of "overkill" and mutilation... On balance, it seems fair to say that while homosexuals sometimes fall prey to "gay bashing" violence by bigoted "straights," they are far more likely to be murdered by another homosexual than in a random hate crime.[10]

 

[marksman007]

3. Nearly every study looking into children raised by homosexual parents shows that there is no quantatative difference between them and those children raised by heterosexuals.

In his exhaustive examination of human history, Giovanni Battista Vico (1668-1744), Professor of Rhetoric at the University of Naples, concluded that marriage between a man and a woman is an essential characteristic of civilization, and as such is the "seedbed" of society. Vico warned that chaos would ensue in the absence of strong social norms encouraging marital faithfulness and the loving care of children born to the union.


Since reproduction requires a male and a female, society will always depend upon heterosexual marriage to provide the "seedbed" of future generations. The evidence indicates that homosexual or lesbian households are not a suitable environment for children.


Data from the 2000 U.S. Census and other sources indicates that only a small percentage of homosexual households choose to raise children.12 One reason for this is that the raising of children is inimical to the typical homosexual lifestyle, which as we have seen typically involves a revolving bedroom door. With the added problem of high rates of intimate partner violence, such households constitute a dangerous and unstable environment for children.


Homosexuals and lesbians are unsuitable role models for children because of their lifestyle. Dr. Brad Hayton observes that homosexual households "model a poor view of marriage to children. They are taught by example and belief that marital relationships are transitory and mostly sexual in nature. ... And they are taught that monogamy in a marriage is not the norm [and] should be discouraged if one wants a good 'marital' relationship."13​

 

[The Lady Kate]

In his exhaustive examination of human history, Giovanni Battista Vico (1668-1744), ​

I stopped about here... I prefer sociological data from within the last century.

BTW, given that you're statistically far more likely to be murdered by your spouse than by a stranger, does that mean that marriage is a violent crime?

 

[marksman007]

Nearly every study looking into children raised by homosexual parents shows that there is no quantatative difference between them and those children raised by heterosexuals.

Homosexual Parenting: Placing children at risk
A number of studies in recent years have purported to show that children raised in gay and lesbian households fare no worse than those reared in traditional families. Yet much of that research fails to meet acceptable standards for psychological research; it is compromised by methodological flaws and driven by political agendas instead of an objective search for truth. In addition, openly lesbian researchers sometimes conduct research with an interest in portraying homosexual parenting in a positive light. The deficiencies of studies on homosexual parenting include reliance upon an inadequate sample size, lack of random sampling, lack of anonymity of research participants, and self-presentation bias.

The presence of methodological defects--a mark of substandard research--would be cause for rejection of research conducted in virtually any other subject area. The overlooking of such deficiencies in research papers on homosexual failures can be attributed to the "politically correct" determination within those in the social science professions to "prove" that homosexual households are no different than traditional families. However, no amount of scholarly legerdemain contained in an accumulation of flawed studies can obscure the well-established and growing body of evidence showing that both mothers and fathers provide unique and irreplaceable contributions to the raising of children. Children raised in traditional families by a mother and father are happier, healthier, and more successful than children raised in non-traditional environments.

In addition, Patterson acknowledges that "research in this area has presented a variety of methodological challenges," and that "questions have been raised with regard to sampling issues, statistical power, and other technical matters (e.g., Belcastro, Gramlich, Nicholson, Price, & Wilson, 1993)." She adds, revealingly:
Research in this area has also been criticized for using poorly matched or no control groups in designs that call for such controls. . . . Other criticisms have been that most studies have involved relatively small samples [and] that there have been inadequacies in assessment procedures employed in some studies.5

In a study published in the Journal of Divorce and Remarriage, P. Belcastro et al. reviewed fourteen studies on homosexual parenting according to accepted scientific standards. Their "most impressive finding" was that "all of the studies lacked external validity. The conclusion that there are no significant differences in children raised by lesbian mothers versus heterosexual mothers is not supported by the published research data base."6 Similarly, in their study of lesbian couples in Family Relations, L. Keopke et al. remark, "Conducting research in the gay community is fraught with methodological problems."7

Psychologist David Blankenhorn, head of the Institute for American Values and author of Fatherless America: Confronting Our Most Urgent Social Problem, criticized such attempts to rely upon behavioral studies of non-human primates to draw conclusions about the character of human families:

I always appreciate critical articles, because they can focus your argument and point out weaknesses. But [Silverstein and Auerbach's] article was unusually silly. Not one thing they said was what I would call a serious insight."27 In their thorough review of homosexual parenting studies, Robert Lerner and Althea K. Nagai found little evidence to support the oft-repeated mantra that homosexual households are "just like" traditional families: "We conclude that the methods used in these studies are so flawed that these studies prove nothing. Therefore, they should not be used in legal cases to make any argument about 'homosexual vs. heterosexual' parenting. Their claims have no basis."28

Comparison of Homosexual 'Couples' and Heterosexual Spouses
Lest anyone suffer the illusion that any equivalency between the sexual practices of homosexual relationships and traditional marriage exists, the statistics regarding sexual fidelity within marriage are revealing: In Sex in America, called by the New York Times "the most important study of American sexual behavior since the Kinsey reports," Robert T. Michael et al. report that 90 percent of wives and 75 percent of husbands claim never to have had extramarital sex.36

A nationally representative survey of 884 men and 1,288 women published in Journal of Sex Research found that 77 percent of married men and 88 percent of married women had remained faithful to their marriage vows.37

In The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States, E. O. Laumann et al. conducted a national survey that found that 75 percent of husbands and 85 percent of wives never had sexual relations outside of marriage.38

A telephone survey conducted for Parade magazine of 1,049 adults selected to represent the demographic characteristics of the United States found that 81 percent of married men and 85 percent of married women reported that they had never violated their marriage vows.39

While the rate of fidelity within marriage cited by these studies remains far from ideal, there is a magnum order of difference between the negligible lifetime fidelity rate cited for homosexuals and the 75 to 90 percent cited for married couples. This indicates that even "committed" homosexual relationships display a fundamental incapacity for the faithfulness and commitment that is axiomatic to the institution of marriage.

In their book Men Who Beat the Men Who Love Them: Battered Gay Men and Domestic Violence, D. Island and P. Letellier postulate that "the incidence of domestic violence among gay men is nearly double that in the heterosexual population."45

A little-reported fact is that homosexual and lesbian relationships are far more violent than are traditional married households: The Bureau of Justice Statistics (U.S. Department of Justice) reports that married women in traditional families experience the lowest rate of violence compared with women in other types of relationships.46

A study in Adolescence found: A disproportionate percentage--29 percent--of the adult children of homosexual parents had been specifically subjected to sexual molestation by that homosexual parent, compared to only 0.6 percent of adult children of heterosexual parents having reported sexual relations with their parent...Having a homosexual parent(s) appears to increase the risk of incest with a parent by a factor of about 50.60

Reprinted by permission. (there is much more material than this).

 

[marksman007]

BTW, given that you're statistically far more likely to be murdered by your spouse than by a stranger, does that mean that marriage is a violent crime?

I don't know where you got your statistics from......

U.S. Department of Justice; Office of Justice Programs; Bureau of Justice Statistics; Special Report

Murder in FamiliesBy John M. Dawson and Patrick A. Langan, Ph.D. BJS Statisticians

A survey of murder cases disposed in 1988 in the courts of large urbancounties indicated that 16% of murder victims were members of the defendant's family.

The remainder were murdered by friends or acquaintances (64%)or by strangers (20%).These findings are drawn from a representative sample survey of State and county prosecutors' records.

The survey covered disposed charges against nearly 10,000 murder defendants, whose murder cases accounted for over 8,000 victims.

 

[ArgentBear]

I really don't care what your dictionary tells you, as it's English and doesn't have Bible definitions in mind, and that is where the verse is found and that is what is being discussed, not science. If you're not prepared to use the terms of theologians while discussing theological morality, then don't discuss it or criticize it.

So you want to redefine words to suit your own purposes? so much for logic

 

[ArgentBear]

In addition, studies report that

More cut and pastes…try writing for yourself sometime.
Or if you insist on cutting and pasting at the very least use reliable source material (and actually cite it)

homosexual couples have significantly higher incidences of violent behavior which will be covered shortly. These studies are not surprising at all given what pathologists have stated regarding the commonness and brutality of homosexual murders.

And you manage to not provide ANY references to these mythological studies...what a surprise

Regarding studies regarding homosexual couples and violence, a recent study by the Canadian government regarding homosexual couples states that "violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples".[1]

According to the American College of Pediatricians who cite several studies violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples.[2]

The Journal of the Family Research Institute using data from the U.S. Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics and the Center for Disease Control concluded that "married men who are not separated are at least 25 times less apt to be domestically attacked than a homosexual male in an 'on-going relationship.' Even if we include all married and separated husbands, the risk of domestic violence in a male-male homosexual relationship is still at least 18 times greater." [5] Another study indicated that 83% of homosexuals report they have been emotionally abused by homosexual partners. [6]

All unnamed and un-referenced “studies” that we can only assume doesn’t actually exist

 

[ArgentBear]

In his exhaustive examination of human history, Giovanni Battista Vico (1668-1744), Professor of Rhetoric at the University of Naples, concluded that marriage between a man and a woman is an essential characteristic of civilization, and as such is the "seedbed" of society. Vico warned that chaos would ensue in the absence of strong social norms encouraging marital faithfulness and the loving care of children born to the union. ​

Yeah…300 year old “sociological” evidence. Your “facts” are impressive as always

Since reproduction requires a male and a female, society will always depend upon heterosexual marriage to provide the "seedbed" of future generations. The evidence indicates that homosexual or lesbian households are not a suitable environment for children.

​

no evidence provided.

Data from the 2000 U.S. Census and other sources indicates that only a small percentage of homosexual households choose to raise children.12 One reason for this is that the raising of children is inimical to the typical homosexual lifestyle, which as we have seen typically involves a revolving bedroom door. With the added problem of high rates of intimate partner violence, such households constitute a dangerous and unstable environment for children.​

More lying for Jesus I take it.

The 2000 census actually shows:
Percentage of same-sex couples with their own children in the household: 30% Percentage of all households in US with own children: 48.2%
http://www.census.gov/main/www/cen2000.html

This is a significant percentage of gay/lesbian households epically when compared to the percentage of heterosexual households with children.

Homosexuals and lesbians are unsuitable role models for children because of their lifestyle. Dr. Brad Hayton observes that homosexual households "model a poor view of marriage to children. They are taught by example and belief that marital relationships are transitory and mostly sexual in nature. ... And they are taught that monogamy in a marriage is not the norm [and] should be discouraged if one wants a good 'marital' relationship."13​

You tired to back up the claim that somehow gays and lesbians were more promiscuous…but all your references were shown to be either misrepresenting the actual data or outright lies




However…none of this nonsense addresses my original point that there has been shown no quantitative difference between children raised by gay/lesbian parents and children raised by heterosexuals. Children raised by gay/lesbian parents are happy, healthy and well balanced and remain so into adulthood.

 

[Maren]

More cut and pastes…try writing for yourself sometime.
Or if you insist on cutting and pasting at the very least use reliable source material (and actually cite it)

And you manage to not provide ANY references to these mythological studies...what a surprise


All unnamed and un-referenced “studies” that we can only assume doesn’t actually exist

Not to mention, the American College of Pediatrics, while it sounds respectable, is a small number of Pediatricians (less than 100) that broke off of the American Academy of Pediatrics (over 60,000 members) in 2002 because the scientific findings of the AAP did not always agree with their religious beliefs.

It is worth noting the ACP does not even try to be scientific, rather they have as the mission statement on their website, "The Mission of the American College of Pediatricians is to enable all children to reach their optimal physical and emotional health and well-being. To this end, we recognize the basic father-mother family unit, within the context of marriage, to be the optimal setting for childhood development". As such, their views on the matter, being predetermined, are not reliable.

This website does a good job of providing example of how the ACP uses outdated data, misuses research, and even have researchers about how their studies are being misused/falsified.

 

[ArgentBear]

Not to mention, the American College of Pediatrics, while it sounds respectable, is a small number of Pediatricians (less than 100) that broke off of the American Academy of Pediatrics (over 60,000 members) in 2002 because the scientific findings of the AAP did not always agree with their religious beliefs.

It is worth noting the ACP does not even try to be scientific, rather they have as the mission statement on their website, "The Mission of the American College of Pediatricians is to enable all children to reach their optimal physical and emotional health and well-being. To this end, we recognize the basic father-mother family unit, within the context of marriage, to be the optimal setting for childhood development". As such, their views on the matter, being predetermined, are not reliable.

This website does a good job of providing example of how the ACP uses outdated data, misuses research, and even have researchers about how their studies are being misused/falsified.

Thank you… I forgot about how the ACP is a fraud.

 

[marksman007]

Originally Posted by Godschild87

I really don't care what your dictionary tells you, as it's English and doesn't have Bible definitions in mind, and that is where the verse is found and that is what is being discussed, not science. If you're not prepared to use the terms of theologians while discussing theological morality, then don't discuss it or criticize it.
​

Very good point Gods child. These atheists have this strange idea that we are in awe of their supposedly superior intelligence and somehow what God says is subject to their understanding of things.

Of course it only serves to emphasise that puny man is his own worst enemy when it comes to facing reality, having this weird idea that we are all going to fall in line with their carnal thinking because they see themselves as the fount of all wisdom.

Of course it is not surprising because they are arguing from a purely foolishness of man position whereas the born again believer has the added wisdom of an almighty God who transcends anything that man might conjure up.

That is why we don't pay any attention to anything they say. Why would we? Take the word of a mere mortal over that of an omnipotent and infinite God!! Just not logical don't you think?

Added to that there are those who call themselves christian and they spend all their time attacking christians. Must consider himself a christian atheist!!!LOL.
​

 

[b&wpac4]

Of course it is not surprising because they are arguing from a purely foolishness of man position whereas the born again believer has the added wisdom of an almighty God who transcends anything that man might conjure up.

Could you please show me the verse that says believers, without extra study, are suddenly granted divine wisdom at the moment of belief?

 

[marksman007]

Could you please show me the verse that says believers, without extra study, are suddenly granted divine wisdom at the moment of belief?

As I did not say that, I suggest that you do your own homework.

 

[b&wpac4]

As I did not say that, I suggest that you do your own homework.

You implied. You said that believers have the added wisdom of God. Is that through study? If so, then not all believers will has this, as not all believers study. If it is a divine gift at the moment of belief, then does that many believers who lack wisdom are not true believers?

 

[marksman007]

You implied.

No I didn't. You put your own spin on it unless you can show me where I said that believers are suddenly granted divine wisdom at the moment of belief. I know what I said and it wasn't that.