What value is Homosexuality to society?

[ArgentBear]

Again, I would say that no one has to have sex in order to live. There are guys who have been born with an orientation to be hot tempered and controlling. That does not make it right and many work at keeping their temper in check.

Many of which are heterosexual…should we use this to question what value heterosexuals have to society

There are guys who cannot drink without drinking to excess. They join AA and never drink again.

Alcoholism is not an apt comparison to sexual orientation. Some alcoholism has genetic factors but that accounts for a very small proportion of alcoholics. Even those with the genetic predisposition may consume alcohol and not become alcoholics.
One cannot be an alcoholic without drinking to excess on more than one occasion. One can drink to excess on many occasions and not be an alcoholic.
Sexual orientation exists without any sexual activity. A heterosexual is a heterosexual even before having sex.

Sin in inborn ---- the Bible says so. That doesn't make it okay simply because it makes some people feel good...

Skin color is inborn
Left-handiness is inborn
Hair color is inborn
Many developmental disabilities are inborn
Are any of these reasons for prejudice and discrimination?

Society gets no lasting benefit when it encourages sinful behavior.

Sinful behavior like prejudice and discrimination. I will agree with you there…so please explain why you are engaging in and promoting this sinful behavior

 

[ArgentBear]

Folks can idiolectically( is that a word ) make the Bible say whatever their itching ears want it to say.

It is amazing how many people are itching for the bible to condemn certain minorities and how often they get the bible to say exactly that.

God is not a God of confusion. It ain't that complex. Deal with what the words say. He means what HE says. And all of this "new way" of interpreting does nothing but open the door for folks to feel good about doing what they want how they want.

“New way’ you mean relying on linguistic and historic studies to figure out just what words mean rather than employ politics to assign wanted meanings?

 

[Zaac]

It is amazing how many people are itching for the bible to condemn certain minorities and how often they get the bible to say exactly that.

Homosexual sinners are no more a minority than all other sinners.

“New way’ you mean relying on linguistic and historic studies to figure out just what words mean rather than employ politics to assign wanted meanings?

Nope. I mean exactly what I said just as God means exactly what He says.

 

[ArgentBear]

Homosexual sinners are no more a minority than all other sinners.

Homosexuals are a minority. Just as African Americans area minority.
Historically the bible was employed to justify racism and slavery and segregation. In the same way today the bible is used to promote discrimination against gays and lesbians
The point remains that many people are more than happy to make the bible say what ever their ears are itching to hear and condemn gays and lesbians

Nope. I mean exactly what I said just as God means exactly what He says.

Which is often what you don’t want it to sat at all…thus the condemnation of these “new way”s

 

[Beanieboy]

Straight people started dressing and grooming better, to the delight of women, which is referred to as "metrosexual", mostly because they had help from gay men, and patterned themselves after gay men.

Without us, you would still be rocking a mullet, and thinking it was cool.

 

[Zaac]

Homosexuals are a minority.Just as African Americans area minority.

According to you. Pedophiles are minorities too. Heard that argument before?

Historically the bible was employed to justify racism and slavery and segregation. In the same way today the bible is used to promote discrimination against gays and lesbians.

Homosexual sex is still a sin and we don't have to affirm that sin if we don't want to.

The point remains that many people are more than happy to make the bible say what ever their ears are itching to hear and condemn gays and lesbians

Gays and lesbians condemn themselves by unrepentantly continuing in behavior that God calls sin.

Which is often what you don’t want it to sat at all…thus the condemnation of these “new way”s

He still says what He says and I said exactly what I intended to say.

 

[Zebra1552]

Homosexual sinners are no more a minority than all other sinners.

Um, yeah they are a minority. Less than 10% of the general population usually counts as a minority, check the dictionary.



[/quote] Nope. I mean exactly what I said just as God means exactly what He says.[/quote]

Yeah, and what's that? What does God say?

 

[Skaloop]

Homosexual sex is still a sin and we don't have to affirm that sin if we don't want to.

Then don't. But what about those of us who do?

 

[ArgentBear]

According to you. Pedophiles are minorities too. Heard that argument before?

You might want to look up what a minority is.

A minority includes any group that is subordinate (usually numerically) to the dominate group in terms of social status, education, employment, wealth and political power. A minority group is usually an ethnic group as understood in terms of language, nationality, religion culture and includes people with disabilities, economic minorities, ate minorities and sexual minorities

And pedophiles are almost exclusively heterosexual males

Homosexual sex is still a sin and we don't have to affirm that sin if we don't want to.

It is your opinion it is a sin just as it was the opinion of many Christians that racial equality was a sin (sadly some still hold that opinion)

Gays and lesbians condemn themselves by unrepentantly continuing in behavior that God calls sin.

So they should lie about who they are and who they love because lying isn’t a sin

He still says what He says and I said exactly what I intended to say.

“You know you have created God in your own image when it turns out he hates all the same people that you do.” ~ Ann Lamont

 

[ArgentBear]

Straight people started dressing and grooming better, to the delight of women, which is referred to as "metrosexual", mostly because they had help from gay men, and patterned themselves after gay men.

Without us, you would still be rocking a mullet, and thinking it was cool.

Hey!…my mullet is sexy beyond words!

 

[marksman007]

And how is it wrong to let people do what they want?

I would have thought that the answer to this is obvious. Someone might die (murder); someone might be injured (armed robbery); someone might be emotionally destroyed (incest); someone might be sexually abused (paedophilia); a child might die (adult violence); someone might drown (suicide); someone might be financially ruined (fraud); someone might lose a family member (drink driving) to name just a few.

 

[marksman007]

Skin color is inborn
Left-handiness is inborn
Hair color is inborn
Many developmental disabilities are inborn
Are any of these reasons for prejudice and discrimination?

But none of them are a sin.

 

[marksman007]

One person who has spent a lot of time looking into this question is psychologist Dr Joe Nicolosi. He argues that kids raised by homosexuals are traumatised emotionally and socially.

Children, he argues, are profoundly affected by parental behaviour. For example, children of smokers often become smokers. “Homosexuality,” says Nicolosi, “is primarily an identity problem, not a sexual problem, and it begins in childhood. The process begins when a child realizes that the world is divided between male and female and that he is not equipped to be identified as male. His father fails to sufficiently encourage male-gender identity. Because he is not fully male-gender-identified, he is not psychologically prepared to feel heterosexual attractions. In order to be attracted to women, a male must feel sufficiently masculine. Faced with this predicament, he goes into a world of fantasy and denies the imperative of being either male or female.”http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=53224170#_edn1

The lack of a strong father figure seems to be a major factor in those who become homosexuals. Another researcher, Dr Paul Cameron, says the admittedly scant data on the subject confirms Nicolosi’s findings. These studies show that between 8% and 33% of adult respondents raised by homosexuals said they considered themselves homosexual or bisexual, far above the national (US) norm of 2% of the adult population.[ii]

The absence of role models presents other problems. How will a man raised by two men know how to relate to a woman? Or how will a man raised by two women know how to relate to men? Thus the Beatles were wrong: love is not all you need, at least when it comes to parenting. As two family experts point out: “The two most loving mothers in the world can’t be a father to a little boy. Love can’t equip mothers to teach a little boy how to be a man. Likewise, the two most loving men can’t be a mother to a child.”[iii]

They continue, “Love does little to help a man teach a little girl how to be a woman. Can you imagine two men guiding a young girl through her first menstrual cycle or helping her through the awkwardness of picking out her first bra? Such a situation might make for a funny television sitcom but not a very good real-life situation for a young girl.”[iv]

http://www.christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=53224170#_ednref1 Michael Ebert, “Joseph Nicolosi, PhD., is the Fugitive,” Focus on the Family Citizen, June 20, 1994, pp. 10-12.

[ii] Cited in Don Feder, “Dangers of Gay Parenting are Underrated,” The Boston Globe, September 27, 1993.

[iii] Glenn Stanton and Bill Maier, Marriage on Trial. Downers Grove, Ill.: InterVarsity Press, 2004, p. 71.

[iv] Ibid.

 

[ArgentBear]

I would have thought that the answer to this is obvious. Someone might die (murder); someone might be injured (armed robbery); someone might be emotionally destroyed (incest); someone might be sexually abused (paedophilia); a child might die (adult violence); someone might drown (suicide); someone might be financially ruined (fraud); someone might lose a family member (drink driving) to name just a few.

None of which have anything to do with gays and lesbians

 

[ArgentBear]

But none of them are a sin.

Yet the bible was used to condemn them all

 

[rambot]

Funny mark but when I google your post it appears you copied it from other sites:

Children as Guinea Pigs Bill Muehlenberg’s CultureWatch

Were those your words?

and your citations go nowhere

 

[ArgentBear]

One person who has spent a lot of time looking into this question is psychologist Dr Joe Nicolosi. He argues that kids raised by homosexuals are traumatised emotionally and socially.

Children, he argues, are profoundly affected by parental behaviour. For example, children of smokers often become smokers. “Homosexuality,” says Nicolosi, “is primarily an identity problem, not a sexual problem, and it begins in childhood. The process begins when a child realizes that the world is divided between male and female and that he is not equipped to be identified as male. His father fails to sufficiently encourage male-gender identity. Because he is not fully male-gender-identified, he is not psychologically prepared to feel heterosexual attractions. In order to be attracted to women, a male must feel sufficiently masculine. Faced with this predicament, he goes into a world of fantasy and denies the imperative of being either male or female.”

The lack of a strong father figure seems to be a major factor in those who become homosexuals. Another researcher, Dr Paul Cameron, says the admittedly scant data on the subject confirms Nicolosi’s findings. These studies show that between 8% and 33% of adult respondents raised by homosexuals said they considered themselves homosexual or bisexual, far above the national (US) norm of 2% of the adult population.[ii]

The absence of role models presents other problems. How will a man raised by two men know how to relate to a woman? Or how will a man raised by two women know how to relate to men? Thus the Beatles were wrong: love is not all you need, at least when it comes to parenting. As two family experts point out: “The two most loving mothers in the world can’t be a father to a little boy. Love can’t equip mothers to teach a little boy how to be a man. Likewise, the two most loving men can’t be a mother to a child.”[iii]

They continue, “Love does little to help a man teach a little girl how to be a woman. Can you imagine two men guiding a young girl through her first menstrual cycle or helping her through the awkwardness of picking out her first bra? Such a situation might make for a funny television sitcom but not a very good real-life situation for a young girl.”[iv]

Michael Ebert, “Joseph Nicolosi, PhD., is the Fugitive,” Focus on the Family Citizen, June 20, 1994, pp. 10-12.

[ii] Cited in Don Feder, “Dangers of Gay Parenting are Underrated,” The Boston Globe, September 27, 1993.

[iii] Glenn Stanton and Bill Maier, Marriage on Trial. Downers Grove, Ill.: InterVarsity Press, 2004, p. 71.

[iv] Ibid.

Dude you have tired the cut and past stuff before. Time and again the claims made were shown to be at best misrepresentations and at worst lies.

I can pounce on NARTH and the fact is one of the few recognized anti-gay hate groups in the United States.

I can point out the fabrications Nicolosi is employing.

I can post actual studies by real researchers who have found that the children of gays and lesbians are not more likely to grow up to be homosexual any more than a child raised by heterosexual parents. The studies that show that children of homosexuals are happy and healthy and well adjusted and remain so into adulthood.

But I thin all you will do is post more cut and paste lies

You go on about sin but you don’t seem to think lying about homosexuals is a sin at all…rather you seem to think presenting false and misleading information is somehow admirable?
Would you also be willing to put up false statements about blacks? About Chinese? About Jews?
Why not?

If it is all right to present false information to attack one minority why is it different to present false information to attack any other minority ?

 

[Mobiosity]

It's laughable how worried people get over pornography. It's only psychologically harmful to the people who think it should be.

Actually, it coarsens people who view it. They view people as objects strickly for their pleasure, not as human beings. It also tends to keep some people from forming attachments to real people. The folks in the dirty pictures are so accommodating there's no reason to deal with people who have actually opinions and feelings and stuff.

 

[LittleNipper]

But none of them are a sin.

You can also say that none of them are behavioral, but having sex is.
Doing, not doing, thinking, saying and not saying are all behavior patterns ----- as is having sex...

 

[wanderingone]

It would seem most obvious that proper heterosexality (married couple/husband & wife) provides the nucleus for a self-sufficent family unit ---- father/mother ----- grandfather/grandmother.

This would be the most uncomplicated family unit and the most convenient for the raising of future citizens.

But what does homosexuality provide for society. Clearly, one doesn't have to be a homosexual in order to be a great actor or musician, anymore that one needs to be married in order to be a great athelete.

So again heterosexuality does play an important role in the establishment of family and community, but what does homosexuality provide specifically.

If it doesn't have anything to offer, perhaps that is enough to make that lifestyle invalid ---- even presumptuous...

What lifestyle? The fact of BEING something provides nothing in itself to society. Should heterosexuals who make a choice NOT to marry or have children have their lifestyles "invalidated" because they don't contribute anything to the fantasy "traditional" family?